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rockandlice
Mar 18, 2009, 5:13 PM
Post #26 of 141
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the_climber wrote: The usefullness of hexes ultimately depends on 2 things. 1- The Type of Rock/Opertunity for protection with hexes in a given area
Agreed. I'll take hexes along to Seneca, but not NRG. Just depends on where I'm headed.
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angry
Mar 18, 2009, 5:20 PM
Post #27 of 141
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I was thinking of getting some BD #8 or #9 hexes the other day. Maybe one of each.
With a little epoxy, some plastic, and creativity I think you could make some kick ass salt and pepper shakers.
Total waste of time placing a hex on a route though.
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the_climber
Mar 18, 2009, 5:28 PM
Post #28 of 141
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rockandlice wrote: Agreed. I'll take hexes along to Seneca, but not NRG. Just depends on where I'm headed.
It's all about taking the right tools for the Job at hand isn't it.
Many climbs in my area I'll actually save my hexes for the lead and use my cams for the anchor. Those situations are based on finding the most bommer pro for the situation... and Canadian Rockies Limestone is a special kind of special. Sometimes the Quartzite is special too.
Another comment on rock type. Placing a hex or a tricam in the local limestone takes me as much time as the care I take placing cams in the local limestone (aiding has taught me a lot about placing cams in the local stone). However, achieving equal placements in a good granite crack puts Cams and tricams well ahead of hexes.
My typical rack for the Rockies is a mix of nuts, tricams, hexes, and cams (add pins on less traveled routes or new ground). For the Bugaboo's That is pared down to a set of nuts, tcu's, cams, and tricams. Why the exclusion of hexes in the Bug's... the simple answer is that the features the rock affords accepts a good cam placement more readily... the cracks are more uniform. Cams don't work all that great in irregular cracks, but hexes do.
The right tool for the job at hand is really what it comes down too.
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petsfed
Mar 18, 2009, 5:45 PM
Post #29 of 141
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angry wrote: I was thinking of getting some BD #8 or #9 hexes the other day. Maybe one of each. With a little epoxy, some plastic, and creativity I think you could make some kick ass salt and pepper shakers. Total waste of time placing a hex on a route though.
I always carry a #9 hex. It makes an excellent hammer when trying to unstick a nut. I haven't actually placed it in years. It also makes a great backup rappel device if I need it.
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rockandlice
Mar 18, 2009, 5:54 PM
Post #30 of 141
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angry wrote: I was thinking of getting some BD #8 or #9 hexes the other day. Maybe one of each. With a little epoxy, some plastic, and creativity I think you could make some kick ass salt and pepper shakers. Total waste of time placing a hex on a route though.
I agree %95 of the time. However, a big fat hex behind a nice constriction that takes 2 seconds to place is also fast, easy, lightweight BOMBER and saves a cam for when it may really be needed. You run into such placements a lot at Seneca. Almost never at NRG. Hence my above comment.
I agree though that obtaining cams over hexes is the far better choice for starting a "standard" rack.
I think another big difference here is the level the person is climbing at. Even using my example of using hexes at Seneca, they are useful on the easier climbs in the 5.4-5.7 range but quickly become "left behind" on anything beyond that level.
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iron106
Mar 18, 2009, 6:39 PM
Post #31 of 141
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Also;
1 What is better than being able to place Stacked Hexes?
2 You can use them for the next cam building contest maybe?
I have BD 1-11.
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krosbakken
Mar 18, 2009, 6:50 PM
Post #32 of 141
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I sent you an email on rc.com. Tell me if you didn't get it.
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avalon420
Mar 18, 2009, 6:51 PM
Post #33 of 141
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angry wrote: I was thinking of getting some BD #8 or #9 hexes the other day. Maybe one of each. With a little epoxy, some plastic, and creativity I think you could make some kick ass salt and pepper shakers. Total waste of time placing a hex on a route though.
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seatbeltpants
Mar 18, 2009, 7:17 PM
Post #34 of 141
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ah, all the hex hating makes me sad. i personally don't own a set but my trad partner does and we always carry them - they don't get placed as often as cams but it always results in a rosy glow when they do.
99% of the time a cam will be as good as the hex and is a handred times as versatile, but a big fat hex set well is just nice. a cam is like a flash gourmet meal while a hex is a plate of bangers and mash. when it's what you want and it hits the spot, it's the shit.
steve
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caleb_danner
Mar 18, 2009, 7:25 PM
Post #35 of 141
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seatbeltpants wrote: ah, all the hex hating makes me sad. i personally don't own a set but my trad partner does and we always carry them - they don't get placed as often as cams but it always results in a rosy glow when they do. 99% of the time a cam will be as good as the hex and is a handred times as versatile, but a big fat hex set well is just nice. a cam is like a flash gourmet meal while a hex is a plate of bangers and mash. when it's what you want and it hits the spot, it's the shit. steve
This is why I want to get hexes to start with
improve my skill then go with the cams after i get good at placing pro
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petsfed
Mar 18, 2009, 10:01 PM
Post #36 of 141
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caleb_danner wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: ah, all the hex hating makes me sad. i personally don't own a set but my trad partner does and we always carry them - they don't get placed as often as cams but it always results in a rosy glow when they do. 99% of the time a cam will be as good as the hex and is a handred times as versatile, but a big fat hex set well is just nice. a cam is like a flash gourmet meal while a hex is a plate of bangers and mash. when it's what you want and it hits the spot, it's the shit. steve This is why I want to get hexes to start with improve my skill then go with the cams after i get good at placing pro
We're not saying don't, we're just saying that $60 for a set of hexes is much better spent on a cam. If you get hexes, get'em as cheaply as possible.
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dr_feelgood
Mar 18, 2009, 10:40 PM
Post #37 of 141
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Who would have thought a discussion bashing hexes would be as infuriating as a discussion bashing religion?
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bill413
Mar 18, 2009, 10:44 PM
Post #38 of 141
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petsfed wrote: caleb_danner wrote: This is why I want to get hexes to start with improve my skill then go with the cams after i get good at placing pro We're not saying don't, we're just saying that $60 for a set of hexes is much better spent on a cam. If you get hexes, get'em as cheaply as possible.
I'm not really saying "don't." I liked them when I had them, and for the "$60" they afforded a wide range of multiple points of protection.
C_D - I fully support the idea of getting comfortable with passive pro. Getting it to work will teach you much more about protection, sizing, assessing cracks than just plugging in a cam.
Eventually, you will add cams - either by buying a set or by picking up the individual sizes you need for where you're climbing. But, I do support getting the hexes.
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evanwish
Mar 18, 2009, 10:48 PM
Post #39 of 141
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seatbeltpants wrote: ah, all the hex hating makes me sad. i personally don't own a set but my trad partner does and we always carry them - they don't get placed as often as cams but it always results in a rosy glow when they do. 99% of the time a cam will be as good as the hex and is a handred times as versatile, but a big fat hex set well is just nice. a cam is like a flash gourmet meal while a hex is a plate of bangers and mash. when it's what you want and it hits the spot, it's the shit. steve
personally i liked them, but my partners got tired of hearing the cowbell on the approach to the climbs so i've stopped carrying them :/
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caleb_danner
Mar 18, 2009, 11:05 PM
Post #40 of 141
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evanwish wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: ah, all the hex hating makes me sad. i personally don't own a set but my trad partner does and we always carry them - they don't get placed as often as cams but it always results in a rosy glow when they do. 99% of the time a cam will be as good as the hex and is a handred times as versatile, but a big fat hex set well is just nice. a cam is like a flash gourmet meal while a hex is a plate of bangers and mash. when it's what you want and it hits the spot, it's the shit. steve personally i liked them, but my partners got tired of hearing the cowbell on the approach to the climbs so i've stopped carrying them :/
mo cow bell right
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rschap
Mar 19, 2009, 1:03 AM
Post #41 of 141
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I bought my cams first and the hexes after to fill in so I didn’t have to bring two sets of cams up everything. On long multi pitch I bring them as a third set. I’ve used them in Joshua Tree (Quartz Monzonite), Tahquitz, Yosemite, High Sierra (Granite), Indian Creek (Hard sandstone), Colorado National Monument (soft sandstone), Unaweep Canyon (Gnis sp?) I use them all the time. Weather or not you use them after you get cams is up to how you feel about them after you use them. I place them when I’m relaxed and on easy parts of the route and save the cams for the oh f$^#$ I’m going to fall moments.
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erolls
Mar 19, 2009, 2:06 AM
Post #42 of 141
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People prefer WC hexes over BD cuz it has one curved side that makes it easier to place. I prefer the Metolious cuz it has two curved sides and will fit where a BD hasn't got a chance.
I'll always go passive if possible and save the cams for parrallel or Oh sh!t placements. I have a whole set and use every one of 'em.
Use that $60 dollars for one cam???
One cam won't get you anywhere till you have a set.
Ten hexes will get you somewhere and if you find you don't like them or you can't take the grief you get from your trust funded partners, then sell them to some gym rat.
It's all route and rock type dependent. Figure out what you need for where you'll be climbing and that's what you need to get.
-E
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acorneau
Mar 19, 2009, 2:14 PM
Post #43 of 141
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One more vote for the OP to get the hexes.
I don't have a second set of cams, so they are my second set. I don't take them on short (1 pitch) climbs where I know my one set will cover the placements.
Also, I teach some top-rope anchors classes and they're great for that, along with a full set of Tricams.
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the_climber
Mar 19, 2009, 3:04 PM
Post #44 of 141
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acorneau wrote: One more vote for the OP to get the hexes. I don't have a second set of cams, so they are my second set. I don't take them on short (1 pitch) climbs where I know my one set will cover the placements. Also, I teach some top-rope anchors classes and they're great for that, along with a full set of Tricams.
It may come down to area specific, but I've found 0.5 though 2.0 tricams matched up with the 4 largest WC Hexes (equivalent to BD #7, 8, 9, 10) to be more versatile on most rock types I've had the pleasure of scaring the shit out of myself on.
Often times in the smaller sizes hexes become less usefull due to placement oppertunities, which I've found is due more to the depth of the potential placement than the smaller hexes being difficult to place (which they are not).
EDIT TO ADD: I've been thinking about it and I'm not sure which hex I preffer 100% of the time between the BD and WC (never really been a fan of the Metolius ones, personal pref). I have a mic of the two. I do love my BD's, but the WC are lite ans afford some placements the BD's do not. For me I like both, but if I was to recommend only getting one type it would be the WC's.
On another note, the one thing I do not like about my BD's is the Cable! I've been threatening to cut that thing out for years. Whichever hex you go with get them slung! Most aspiring trad climbers like the cable at first because it is similar to what they already are learning... nuts. Hexes are far more versatile if slung.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Mar 19, 2009, 3:28 PM)
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cracklover
Mar 19, 2009, 3:13 PM
Post #45 of 141
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I don't really care whether the OP buys hexes or not. I'm just chiming in because:
vegastradguy wrote: having been foolish enough to actually try and use hexes back when i was learning, i quickly discovered that just about all of today's hexes are, for the most part, useless in most protection scenarios today. tried 'em all...they all sucked.
I've only climbed with vegastradguy once or twice (fun guy, good climber!) but both times, he saw me place lots of hexes, in great placements, quickly and efficiently. And yet he still says that they're useless.
So either he doesn't trust his own eyes, or he's forgotten that lesson.
My guess is that what he really means is that he himself doesn't know how to use them, and he's generalizing based on that fact.
Personally, I climb with the Metolius curved hexes. I can't answer your question, though, because I haven't climbed on the BD or WC ones, so I don't know if they're any good, or which are the best.
But obviously I'm happy with the Metolius curved hexes.
Cheers,
GO
Edited to add: I had forgotten - I actually did have a BD hex for about a year. I bought it to replace one of my Metolius ones that got sacrificed to the booty gods. I didn't like the BD one as much, and retired it when I got a new Metolius to fill the gap. Of course, that may or may not mean that the BD ones are less useful. It's equally possible that I'm just used to the way the Metolius ones place, so I wasn't as skillful at placing the BDs.
(This post was edited by cracklover on Mar 19, 2009, 3:18 PM)
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cracklover
Mar 19, 2009, 3:23 PM
Post #46 of 141
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Also, in the smaller sizes of hex, large nuts place much much better, so I don't carry the small end of the hexes.
GO
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krusher4
Mar 19, 2009, 4:44 PM
Post #47 of 141
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I don't think there are 'best brands" just preferences
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vegastradguy
Mar 19, 2009, 10:15 PM
Post #48 of 141
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cracklover wrote: I've only climbed with vegastradguy once or twice (fun guy, good climber!) but both times, he saw me place lots of hexes, in great placements, quickly and efficiently. And yet he still says that they're useless. So either he doesn't trust his own eyes, or he's forgotten that lesson. My guess is that what he really means is that he himself doesn't know how to use them, and he's generalizing based on that fact.
i love how not one person in this thread actually read my entire post...i keep getting bashed for not liking hexes. note the word...'today's' in my post. i dont like today's hexes. can i use them? absolutely. do i like them? no. not at all.
old chouinards. only hexes worth talking about, imho. that said, i would still argue that, in general, hexes are not necessary for the vast majority of climbers and that the vast majority of climbers will abandon them shortly after starting. there are very few 5.10 trad leaders (gabe is probably among them) that regularly use hexes at that grade. at 5.11, i bet that number shrinks further.
for the record, i did notice gabe using hexes alot- as efficiently and well as could be asked for, i might add, but they were all but unnecessary- cams protect it just fine and, i would argue, faster.
i also climbed on gabe's rack on that route and placed hexes myself quickly and efficiently- and yes, i do know how to use them- i've done almost all of RR's famous trade routes 5.8 and under on passive only.
anyway, at the end of the day, its your rack and your life- do what you feel comfortable doing and you'll be just fine. we might poke fun, but at the end of the day, if thats what makes you feel good and safe- then more power to you.
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Alpine07
Mar 19, 2009, 10:19 PM
Post #49 of 141
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vegastradguy wrote: cracklover wrote: I've only climbed with vegastradguy once or twice (fun guy, good climber!) but both times, he saw me place lots of hexes, in great placements, quickly and efficiently. And yet he still says that they're useless. So either he doesn't trust his own eyes, or he's forgotten that lesson. My guess is that what he really means is that he himself doesn't know how to use them, and he's generalizing based on that fact. i love how not one person in this thread actually read my entire post...i keep getting bashed for not liking hexes. note the word...'today's' in my post. i dont like today's hexes. can i use them? absolutely. do i like them? no. not at all. old chouinards. only hexes worth talking about, imho. that said, i would still argue that, in general, hexes are not necessary for the vast majority of climbers and that the vast majority of climbers will abandon them shortly after starting. there are very few 5.10 trad leaders (gabe is probably among them) that regularly use hexes at that grade. at 5.11, i bet that number shrinks further. for the record, i did notice gabe using hexes alot- as efficiently and well as could be asked for, i might add, but they were all but unnecessary- cams protect it just fine and, i would argue, faster. i also climbed on gabe's rack on that route and placed hexes myself quickly and efficiently- and yes, i do know how to use them- i've done almost all of RR's famous trade routes 5.8 and under on passive only. anyway, at the end of the day, its your rack and your life- do what you feel comfortable doing and you'll be just fine. we might poke fun, but at the end of the day, if thats what makes you feel good and safe- then more power to you.
I'll give that post five stars. 
(This post was edited by Alpine07 on Mar 19, 2009, 10:19 PM)
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rschap
Mar 20, 2009, 2:32 AM
Post #50 of 141
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Not that I’m arguing with you but what is the difference between old chouinards and the new BD hexes? I have never seen the old chouinards so I looked up a picture, they don’t look that much different. Sorry for the thread drift.
Edit to add url: http://www.climbaz.com/...ard72/chouinard.html
(This post was edited by rschap on Mar 20, 2009, 2:36 AM)
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