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curt
Apr 14, 2005, 9:09 PM
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Well, that's odd. I went into my earlier post to fix a spelling mistake and I created a whole new post--that the site will now not let me delete. :roll:
Curt
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jt512
Apr 14, 2005, 9:11 PM
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In reply to: Well, that's odd. I went into my earlier post to fix a spelling mistake and I created a whole new post--that the site will now not let me delete. :roll: Curt
You clicked the quote button instead of the edit button.
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tradklime
Apr 14, 2005, 9:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: There is absolutely nothing wrong with grigris, but they are likely the most misused or misunderstood belay devices out there. Gyms should not force their use. I have been told that it is often the insurance company that insists that an autolocking device be used. -Jay
Which I find ironic because all of the belay related accidents that I have personnally witnessed, or have personal awareness of, involved a grigri or other "auto locking" belay device.
This one adding to the list.
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curt
Apr 14, 2005, 9:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Well, that's odd. I went into my earlier post to fix a spelling mistake and I created a whole new post--that the site will now not let me delete. :roll: Curt You clicked the quote button instead of the edit button.
You think I did something that stupid?
You're probably right. :oops:
Curt
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scotchie
Apr 14, 2005, 9:37 PM
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In reply to: If you're doing it with a grigri, there is no option to 'panic' and hold the cam open, you should be paying attention and as soon as a fall occurs you should lock off just like with an atc.
I second this. Get used to locking off with your brake-hand as you would with an ATC, even if the auto-locking device can engage itself faster than human reflex. Pretend the auto-lock isn't there and be prepared to catch the fall yourself. That way you can catch someone even if the brake-hand is open for some reason. You can also switch back-and-forth between ATC and Gri-Gri without having to switch techniques.
I find it very difficult to feed out slack on a Gri-Gri (in general), but it's easier and safer to feed it through with the brake-level closed. Get used to always having your brake-hand with a firm grip on the rope and ready to catch a fall. Then use your other hand to guide the slack through the device.
If your other hand were busy holding the brake-lever open, then you would have to feed slack through using the brake-hand, which would make it difficult to catch a fall because you would have to switch actions of the brake hand in too short a time. This sounds like what happened to the original poster.
You could theoretically just get used to letting go of the brake lever if the climber falls, but then you are developing a technique which would only work with a Gri-Gri, and that has a number of disadvantages. Better to learn proper belay technique, even if that is not what the gym staff taught you.
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arjunrattan
Apr 14, 2005, 10:41 PM
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In reply to: Better to learn proper belay technique, even if that is not what the gym staff taught you.
im pretty certain the staff at oasis teach the right technique to use a gri-gri. my bad not to learn from them and try and learn it on my own.
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petsfed
Apr 14, 2005, 10:47 PM
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In reply to: Better to learn proper belay technique, even if that is not what the gym staff taught you.
I've been told not to belay the correct way before because the staff knew only what they had been taught.
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fracture
Apr 15, 2005, 3:08 AM
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In reply to: And as far as dealing with a blown clip, a grigri is better than an atc.
I thought most GriGri misuse errors become evident when someone tries falling while the belayer is trying to feed slack (for example, with their brake hand or whatnot).
I call bogus on the above statement, but I do agree with your point about the leader blowing the third clip.
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climbs4fun
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Apr 15, 2005, 3:48 AM
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In reply to: In this case, you slide the brake up to the device, palm up, so that the fingers curl around the bottom of the device, and you use your pinkie and ring finger to squeeze the cam laterally, while you use your guide hand to pull out enough slack for the leader to make the clip. Get in the habit of pulling out enough slack for the clip and getting your brake hand back on the rope immediately, even before the leader makes the clip. This will allow you to quickly take in slack should the leader fall while clipping. Under no circumstances should you reverse the hands; that is, never hold the cam open with the guide hand and pull out slack with the brake hand. -Jay
Jay, I remember sitting around one day at Big Bear debating proper belay technique, when you gave excellent gri gri advice that would most definately benefit this poster. You said NOT to hold down the camming device at all, but to apply pressure to the SIDE of the camming unit. This allows you pay out rope quickly without risking the camming unit being held down should the leader fall mid clip. This works like a charm. The camming unit is never didingaged and it ALWAYS locks when the leader falls. My main partner seems to only fall while clipping. Go figure. :roll:
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hoppinbig
Apr 15, 2005, 2:32 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: They say that you should ALWAYS keep your right hand on the gri-gri. And use your left hand to both feed and pull slack from the system. Not sure where you got this information but you are 100% wrong... maybe someone misunderstood.... I know as a fact that they don't teach this method. Pulling slack with the left hand while the right is on the grigri???? How in the world does one do that? I don't think I bend that way. As usual, this thread is a f---ing mess. You don't bend that way? Pulling slack out with the left hand while holding the grigri with the right hand is exactly how Petzl recommends slack be pulled out when the leader needs it to clip. How can you not bend that way? Do you attach the grigri to your belay loop upsidedown? Are you one of those retards who insists on clipping his belay device to his tie-in points instead of the belay loop, inspite of the fact that this orients the grigri incorrectly, twists the rope when you lower your partner, and increases the risk that the belay carabiner will be crossloaded in a fall? -Jay Woaa. Easy here. Hoppinbig is a respected member of the climbing community, and from watching him belay on occasion (as him and his friends send routes that I dream of flailing on) I know that he belays perfectly safetly.
Wow - Thanks JumpingRock - nice to have someone back you up on one of these boards.
As for JT512 - relax cowboy - I was refering to using my left hand to pull in excess slack. For example - when your partner goes for a far desperate clip, realizes he can't do it and drops all the slack he yanked out - usually a fall quickly follows such an act - there is noway you can quickly take all that rope back in using your left hand. I do agree that holding the grigri with your right hand and pulling out rope with your left is the best way to give your climber more rope.
As for JT's other rants - clipping into both points on my harness? Come on dude - I stopped doing that the day I learned how to tie a figure 8.
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jt512
Apr 15, 2005, 4:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: They say that you should ALWAYS keep your right hand on the gri-gri. And use your left hand to both feed and pull slack from the system. Not sure where you got this information but you are 100% wrong... maybe someone misunderstood.... I know as a fact that they don't teach this method. Pulling slack with the left hand while the right is on the grigri???? How in the world does one do that? I don't think I bend that way. As usual, this thread is a f---ing mess. You don't bend that way? Pulling slack out with the left hand while holding the grigri with the right hand is exactly how Petzl recommends slack be pulled out when the leader needs it to clip. How can you not bend that way? Do you attach the grigri to your belay loop upsidedown? Are you one of those retards who insists on clipping his belay device to his tie-in points instead of the belay loop, inspite of the fact that this orients the grigri incorrectly, twists the rope when you lower your partner, and increases the risk that the belay carabiner will be crossloaded in a fall? -Jay Woaa. Easy here. Hoppinbig is a respected member of the climbing community, and from watching him belay on occasion (as him and his friends send routes that I dream of flailing on) I know that he belays perfectly safetly. Wow - Thanks JumpingRock - nice to have someone back you up on one of these boards. I was refering to using my left hand to pull in excess slack.
Nxtt time that is what you are "referring to" try actually writing what you mean.
In reply to: For example - when your partner goes for a far desperate clip, realizes he can't do it and drops all the slack he yanked out - usually a fall quickly follows such an act - there is noway you can quickly take all that rope back in using your left hand.
The obvious way to pull in that much slack quickly is to do so hand-over-hand, using both hands.
-Jay
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tradrenn
Apr 20, 2005, 1:50 AM
Post #62 of 67
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In reply to: Also, a grigri can't give a dynamic belay, which is something a leader usually appreciates when they take a fall.
Have you forget abour jumping ? That would make it dynamic, wouldn't it ?
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z_rock90
Apr 20, 2005, 2:16 AM
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this might sound a little dramatic but if he fell at the second bolt I woud use a running belay. I have seen this done before when guy fell at the top of the second bolt. IT was a hard catch but it probly saved him a couple of broken feet.
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vertk8r
Apr 20, 2005, 3:20 AM
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Just sounds to me like the guy who initially posted this thread needs to lay off the death grip on the gri-gri, pay very close attention to his climber, and finally, develop much more attuned reflex that tells him to get slide his hand back on to the life line from the grigri immediately after feeding rope.
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jt512
Apr 21, 2005, 2:36 AM
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In reply to: this might sound a little dramatic but if he fell at the second bolt I woud use a running belay. I have seen this done before when guy fell at the top of the second bolt. IT was a hard catch but it probly saved him a couple of broken feet.
Yo, n00b, how about letting people that actually climb, and therefore might know what they are talking about answer the safety questions.
-Jay
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gochubug
Apr 21, 2005, 3:41 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: this might sound a little dramatic but if he fell at the second bolt I woud use a running belay. I have seen this done before when guy fell at the top of the second bolt. IT was a hard catch but it probly saved him a couple of broken feet. Yo, n00b, how about letting people that actually climb, and therefore might know what they are talking about answer the safety questions. -Jay
Well, I think we are just dealing with misuse of a term here. All experienced climbers know what a running belay is when we are simul-climbing, but I think z_rock90 meant the belayer was literally running to take up slack. :roll:
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jt512
Apr 21, 2005, 5:24 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: this might sound a little dramatic but if he fell at the second bolt I woud use a running belay. I have seen this done before when guy fell at the top of the second bolt. IT was a hard catch but it probly saved him a couple of broken feet. Yo, n00b, how about letting people that actually climb, and therefore might know what they are talking about answer the safety questions. -Jay Well, I think we are just dealing with misuse of a term here. All experienced climbers know what a running belay is when we are simul-climbing, but I think z_rock90 meant the belayer was literally running to take up slack. :roll:
I know what he meant. What I have a problem with is a guy whose climbing experience consists of a handful of visits to a gym pontificating on what he'd do in a critical safety situation, based on what he saw somebody else do. At this stage in his climbing, this kid should be asking safety questions, not answering them.
-Jay
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