|
ricknie
May 24, 2005, 5:25 PM
Post #1 of 153
(50756 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
In 1977 a plane loaded with dope crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. I knew the pilot and his wife since high school. His wife and I are working on co-authoring a book about the incident. I am looking for anyone that can recall any stories about what went on in the area during the first few weeks following the crash as well as anything positive that happened to people such as opening businesses, buying equipment and launching careers.
We are not looking to expose anyone, we are looking for stories to add to what we already knew happened up to that night.I have talked to a few ex park employees that were there at the time as well as a few C4 guys and have gotten their take on things. Anyone else?
Rick Schloss
San Jose, CA
408-295-1501
|
|
|
|
|
jimthespider
May 24, 2005, 6:00 PM
Post #2 of 153
(50750 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 23, 2003
Posts: 53
|
I read a book related to this years ago. It was a fictional murder mystery that was wrapped around the true story of this plane crash. In the book a bunch of climbers go out to ice climb and find bales of pot on the ice of a lake. They go back and get scuba gear to recover the pot. Then someone comes after the dope and kills a climber.
I think I have the book at home and I am at work but, I will try to find it tonight.
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
plund
May 24, 2005, 7:09 PM
Post #4 of 153
(50752 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2003
Posts: 302
|
Isn't author Jeff Long actually John Long, aka vivalargo???
|
|
|
|
|
jayteefiveseven
May 24, 2005, 7:15 PM
Post #5 of 153
(50752 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 25, 2004
Posts: 52
|
just watch cliffhanger
|
|
|
|
|
couchwarrior
May 24, 2005, 7:16 PM
Post #6 of 153
(50750 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2004
Posts: 190
|
In reply to: Isn't author Jeff Long actually John Long, aka vivalargo???
Nope, since there was some dispute between them over who had the rights to the story. Largo is quoted somewheres as saying (and I'm paraphrasing), "In the end, Stallone got ahold of it and turned it into a piece of crap, anyway."
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
May 24, 2005, 7:25 PM
Post #7 of 153
(50751 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
I was going to suggest you try your luck over at Supertaco, but it looks like you already did. Methinks you'll get everything you need from those guys.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
May 24, 2005, 7:37 PM
Post #8 of 153
(50752 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Thanks guys for all the info. Yep, I've got a similar thread going over at ST. Many have stepped forward to lend a hand at their take. Some with names, some without. Our purpose is to get the stories, especially if they are humorous or resulted in helping someone's life out. This was a pretty tough smack for the pilot's wife and daughter. She's decided to see if she can't tell the story and get something good out of this.
Anyone want to PM me or call, have at it. "Operators are standing by"
|
|
|
|
|
plund
May 24, 2005, 7:38 PM
Post #9 of 153
(50750 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2003
Posts: 302
|
In reply to: In reply to: Isn't author Jeff Long actually John Long, aka vivalargo??? Nope, since there was some dispute between them over who had the rights to the story. Largo is quoted somewheres as saying (and I'm paraphrasing), "In the end, Stallone got ahold of it and turned it into a piece of crap, anyway."
Thanks for enlightening me.....
|
|
|
|
|
ctardi
May 24, 2005, 7:40 PM
Post #10 of 153
(50750 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2004
Posts: 1278
|
Also, all of the pot that was rescued from underwater was saturated with jet fuel, making it a little posionous.
|
|
|
|
|
andrewph
May 24, 2005, 7:42 PM
Post #11 of 153
(50751 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 105
|
Lynn hill talks about a plane crash like that in her book (climbing free). I assume its the same one.
Anyway she has a couple of stories about what various people did in there. if you haven't already checked it.
Andy
|
|
|
|
|
gene
May 24, 2005, 7:43 PM
Post #12 of 153
(50750 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 19, 2003
Posts: 65
|
I suggest you read "Climbing Free" by Lynn Hill, as she has a chapter in her book about this (she was a valley-local at the time), and it has a bunch of info about what happened to some of the "discoverers" ....
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
May 24, 2005, 8:03 PM
Post #13 of 153
(50750 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
First thing - condolences for the friends and family of the two pilots who died in that crash.
That said, I would find it hard to believe that many people would come forward with first-person accounts, and hopefully those with secondhand knowledge would think twice. Maybe I am just a little bit paranoid, but I used to be a bit of a pothead back about those times and I remember some of the dealings that went on, when the stakes were beyond the means of the 1/4 lb, sell three/get one free, dealers.
From what I have read, that plane apparently had more $$ of product lost than I can possbibly begin to conjure. While I wish the author luck in getting information to use in a book, and climbers face risks every time they're out there(at least trad leaders....hahaha), I just cannot imagine anyone taking a look at the route you put up and thinking "Cool, I wanna go for that!" I can't even imagine the woman who wants to write this book wanting to put herself in that position.
And - just wondering - so how did/does the credit work on the sort of transaction that crashed and burned in 1977? It's not like you can get factoring, or pick up a Lloyd's of London insurance policy - is it? Someone, somewhere lost a lot of money, I would think.
|
|
|
|
|
gearsighted
May 24, 2005, 8:08 PM
Post #14 of 153
(50749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 69
|
In the short story "The Bird's Boys", which is the fourth story in "Long on Adventure" John Long tells this story along with others having to do with Jim Bridwell and the climbers who he mentored. Unless that was ANOTHER plane full of weed that crashed into the river during the winter...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
May 24, 2005, 8:26 PM
Post #16 of 153
(50749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
happiegrrrl, to answer some of your questions and address some of your comments.
All was lost in the crash. People, plane, money, profits, futures. There is currently a woman without her husband and a daughter without her father. We were all up to our necks much deeper than a single load. And no, there was no "Lloyds of London" insurance policy. The wife went through Federal hell for years afterward until things went past the statute of limitations.
For those that don't feel comfortable coming forward to tell their stories, we understand. However, I think you can use climbing as an analogy. I jump (parachute) and SCUBA, but if you don't feel comfortable with it I certainly won't try to persuade you to come along. So far we have a number of people that are willing to tell their stories nameless. That's fine. This isn't a documentary that unless the source is verified it isn't valid. Nor will this be a fiction.
As the story(s) unfold what went on, those that know will sit back and nod. Those that really don't know will lean forward and say, "Dayuum, so THAT is what happened." That is all we want to do.
As for paranoia, imagine me. I'm posting my real name, the town I live in, and my phone number. Some would say I'm nutz. Maybe, but I figure if I am asking people to step forward, I have to be first.
|
|
|
|
|
jbell2355
May 24, 2005, 8:27 PM
Post #17 of 153
(50749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 207
|
John Long talks about the crash and subsequent activity in his book "Rock Jocks, Wall Rats and Hang Dogs". Absolutely amazing. That must be a very fond memory for those involved.
|
|
|
|
|
tenn_dawg
May 24, 2005, 8:33 PM
Post #18 of 153
(50749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2002
Posts: 3045
|
This is an amazing story. Good luck with your book!
As for my input... 23 Sep 1982 is a very significant date for me, and I've got little to add because of it.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
May 24, 2005, 8:44 PM
Post #19 of 153
(50749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
I just spoke with the pilot's wife. She said I can publish her name to make the conversation easier. Its Pam.
Pam and I agree that in the book we'll be telling as much as possible about the events that led up to the date of the crash as well as what went on afterward from her perspective. As I've been hearing, no one has yet to be able to talk about where the plane was coming from or going to. That will all be told. It'll open many eyes.
As I relate some of the recent stories to Pam, she is actually saying, "This is getting to be fun." I'm glad she can have this kind of feeling after all of this time.
Keep 'em coming. If you know people and want to tell them what we're doing, please pass on my name, phone number or email addy.
|
|
|
|
|
rockmonkey24
May 24, 2005, 8:56 PM
Post #20 of 153
(50749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 34
|
In reply to: In the short story "The Bird's Boys", which is the fourth story in "Long on Adventure" John Long tells this story along with others having to do with Jim Bridwell and the climbers who he mentored. Unless that was ANOTHER plane full of weed that crashed into the river during the winter... |
|
|
|
|
ricknie
May 25, 2005, 9:17 PM
Post #21 of 153
(50753 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
In talking with Pam just now, I told her of the concerns about divulging the who, what, where, when stuff. She thought it might be better if we told more about her and some of the surrounding situations so people would feel a little easier about this.
Her name is Pam Glisky, the pilot was John Glisky. The Lockheed Loadstar was not the only plane used. There were no passengers on the plane. The Feds dogged her for a few years after the incident and only now is she in a position to be able to tell the story.
Her thoughts are that this was a terrible thing in her life. It still haunts her and her daughter. However the idea that it might be possible that something good came out of this is comforting to her. This is why she's not only writing about her side of it, she wants to write about the lives that were helped out also.
So if there is anything I can do or she can do to help drop the shields of some out there, please feel free to PM me and I'll do what I can.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
May 25, 2005, 10:45 PM
Post #22 of 153
(50749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
We have decided to not use anyone's real name in this book. It will be more comfortable for everyone and easier to keep track of.
|
|
|
|
|
gunksgoer
May 25, 2005, 11:03 PM
Post #23 of 153
(50749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 1290
|
Any Idea when this will hit the shelves? Im very interested.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
May 25, 2005, 11:15 PM
Post #24 of 153
(48671 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Probably depends on how much material we collect. Right now I'm doing all the research via email and phone. I'd imagine next year or so. Never done a book before so this is new territory. I'm sure those more experienced on this matter could chime in.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
May 28, 2005, 6:09 AM
Post #25 of 153
(48668 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
So far almost a dozen people have agreed to interviews. Not all are climbers from that time. Some worked in and around the park and have their stories as well. Some of what I've heard so far tells me that this is going to be a story that is at its time to be told.
|
|
|
|
|
cwegener
Jun 1, 2005, 3:20 PM
Post #26 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 5
|
I hate threads like this because it makes me realize how old I am getting. I remember several people turning a few hours work into cars and dirt bag life styles.
Yes the the pot was saturated with jet fuel that gave it a piquant je ne sai quoi. In '78 I remember sitting in Johnny Rock's VW van, that the pot had bought, at Horse Tooth Reservoir after working on Torture Chamber smoking the last of his stash.
Those were good days and good times.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jun 13, 2005, 6:34 AM
Post #27 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Yep, I know what you are saying. Funny, you'll never teach the young this feeling, it comes with the territory.
|
|
|
|
|
q
Deleted
Jun 24, 2005, 2:47 AM
Post #28 of 153
(33361 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
Rick,
got your message. no, I haven't heard from C. i suppose she's not into talking about it, or it's the wrong #?
|
|
|
|
|
socialclimber
Jun 24, 2005, 10:44 AM
Post #29 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2001
Posts: 1163
|
I've just read about this accident in Lynn Hills book. I wondered if the aircraft was one of Allen Longs. It crashed about the same time as Long was smuggling plane loads of dope from Colombia. For the record, as far as I know Allen Long was not a climber and not related to John Long .
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jun 27, 2005, 4:56 AM
Post #30 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
The name doesn't ring a bell as far as this "organization" is concerned. I believe that Allen Long(singular) was working with Robert Sabbag on his book "Loaded" and it had more to do with Florida drug running than the West coast.
But, thanks for the lead and the thoughts. Everything helps.
As the old line goes, "If ya got'em, post'em"
|
|
|
|
|
rickrock77
Jul 17, 2005, 1:56 PM
Post #31 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 139
|
So the main reason for the plane in the first place was just to carry drugs?
Why is this being made into some sympathetic story when its all about drugs? To the family my sympathy of course fo loosing a husband.
But if its all about drugs well gee how bad should I really feel?
How many lives to drugs claim in a year? Lets write a story about that.
|
|
|
|
|
skinnyclimber
Jul 17, 2005, 2:34 PM
Post #32 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 406
|
It's also a story of the drug war, and how good people are getting killed and put in prison for something they feel should not be illegal (pot). I agree with them.
skinny
|
|
|
|
|
noshoesnoshirt
Jul 17, 2005, 4:15 PM
Post #33 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2002
Posts: 440
|
In reply to: How many lives to drugs claim in a year? Lets write a story about that.
In reply to: Why is this being made into some sympathetic story when its all about drugs? To the family my sympathy of course fo loosing a husband. But if its all about drugs well gee how bad should I really feel?
Eat me.
|
|
|
|
|
q
Deleted
Jul 17, 2005, 5:15 PM
Post #34 of 153
(33361 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
There is no documented case of anyone dying from a pot overdose, ever.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Jul 17, 2005, 5:51 PM
Post #35 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
In one of Jack Roberts' slide shows, he talked about how that particular incident paid for his first trip to Chamonix, basically jump starting his future as an ice climber and alpinist (sponsored by La Sportiva, no less). If you can find him (he's in the Boulder area) he'll probably tell you.
|
|
|
|
|
tenesmus
Jul 17, 2005, 6:44 PM
Post #36 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 263
|
In reply to: In reply to: How many lives to drugs claim in a year? Lets write a story about that. Umm, about a thousand times less than cars. In reply to: Why is this being made into some sympathetic story when its all about drugs? To the family my sympathy of course fo loosing a husband. But if its all about drugs well gee how bad should I really feel? Eat me.
Maybe pot really does make people paranoid.... unless it comes to thinking about the bad things that happen when people use pot. Then it seems to make people really blind.
|
|
|
|
|
rickrock77
Jul 18, 2005, 2:13 AM
Post #37 of 153
(33362 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 139
|
My mate had pot in a recreational way, weekends and stuff while at uni.
Anyway some other associate that knew him, but was not a friend, claimed to the debt collectors(bikers) that he had their money for some pot. He was not involved with this particular person or pot, but ended up getting his fingers chopped off just because he knew the other guy, but does not know who this guy is.
I had the luxary of being taped for 2 hours, and petrol pored on me because I was his flat mate.
To you small minded fools who say pot never killed anyone, well you just go on believing that. Drugs and the industry that supports it kills many people, drug dealers kill many people, if you dont think it kills where have you been??
If I could put drug dealers on one island and have that island suddenly disapear, the world would be a much better place without druggies. If drugs were good, we wouldnt be having this converation.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jul 18, 2005, 6:34 AM
Post #38 of 153
(33361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
We are writing a book about a true event that because of its nature, changed the lives of many people. Two men lost their lives, a wife lost her husband, a daughter lost her father, a family lost their son. There are lessons to be learned here and we hopefully will be able to tell the story in such a way as to remove some of the glory that surrounds the Hollywood image of the big time drug dealer. It ended in disaster for many people.
On the other hand, many people benefited from the crash. Lives were changed for the positive. Businesses were started that many of you that climb today owe your safety, security, and ability to do what could not be done in the late 1970s, can be done today. Negative life styles were changed to positive. Relationships were developed that resulted in families. Careers were created.
So don't be so quick to judge. Every time you go to the movies to see your favorite star, just think where the idea for that movie might have come from. The next time you use a device for keeping warm or secure on a climb, put a little thought into how it came to be.
When the book comes out, I think it will be an eye opener for all three sides of the story. The plane, the Valley climbers, and those that were investigating the crash.
|
|
|
|
|
rickrock77
Jul 18, 2005, 7:09 AM
Post #39 of 153
(33361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 139
|
Ricknie thats the best damn reply I could have gotten.
Thankyou for the inteligent thoughtfull way you stated it.
Will keep eyes posted for the book then.
|
|
|
|
|
dynosore
Jul 18, 2005, 12:57 PM
Post #40 of 153
(33361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1768
|
In reply to: The next time you use a device for keeping warm or secure on a climb, put a little thought into how it came to be.
Condolences to the family, but...
Cmon'; without the all encompassing good that large scale drug dealing is, we wouldn't have the carabiner or cam? LOL
|
|
|
|
|
rickrock77
Jul 18, 2005, 1:48 PM
Post #41 of 153
(33360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 139
|
Is this story really the basis for that cliff hanger movie? This was mentioned in a privious post, but I didnt know if it was legit or not.
|
|
|
|
|
hacksaw
Jul 18, 2005, 5:10 PM
Post #42 of 153
(33360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2004
Posts: 169
|
There was once a drug smuggling airplane that landed on top of a mesa here in Colorado. A rancher discovered the empty plane sitting on top of his mesa. As I recall he called the DEA because the plance smelled of pot. They came looked at the plane, fixxed the engin and flew the plane off the mesa. The question was how did the smugglers get the plane off loaded and all the cargo driven away so quick. Anytime, I hear the song "Smuggler's Blues," I think of the Yosemite plane crash and this plane on the mesa here in Colorado. It makes you wonder how many other missing smuggler planes are still out there........
|
|
|
|
|
drector
Jul 18, 2005, 5:44 PM
Post #43 of 153
(33360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 1037
|
In reply to: On the other hand, many people benefited from the crash. Lives were changed for the positive.
In reply to: So don't be so quick to judge.
They benefited by selling drugs that ended up in the hands of 9-year-old kids at the elementary school.
But I have nothing against a book or a movie on the subject. Let's just hope that for each scene of a dirtbag climber-turned-successful-businessman, that there is a scene showing the outcome of his earlier illegal actions.
I will be try to be fair in saying that it was pot and not cocaine and that the culture was a bit different then. I'm also sure that alcohol has somehow cause many more deaths than pot has caused so it would be better to put the "I don't want to see Innocent people killed" energy that so many are showing on this site into something other than complaining about a book and a plane crash from the past. I can understand complaining about what people did that was dangerous and illegal, but I can't understand the desire to condemn someone writing a book on the subject.
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
noshoesnoshirt
Jul 18, 2005, 6:38 PM
Post #44 of 153
(33360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2002
Posts: 440
|
In reply to: They benefited by selling drugs that ended up in the hands of 9-year-old kids at the elementary school. Dave
Yep. And the kids probably knocked over a liquor store to get the money. Then they prostituted themselves and started shooting heroin into their eyeballs.
Eat me.
|
|
|
|
|
drector
Jul 18, 2005, 7:47 PM
Post #45 of 153
(33360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 1037
|
In reply to: In reply to: They benefited by selling drugs that ended up in the hands of 9-year-old kids at the elementary school. Dave Yep. And the kids probably knocked over a liquor store to get the money. Then they prostituted themselves and started shooting heroin into their eyeballs. Eat me.
I'm sorry. I just thought that the only way to make money from drugs is to sell them. I'm sure peoples lives didn't get better because they smoked the pot and somehow became business moguls. I guess I was wrong.
And don't say "Eat me." to me jackass. I didn't say shit like that to you.
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jul 18, 2005, 8:30 PM
Post #46 of 153
(33360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Dave, you are looking the wrong direction. Those that were running the drugs on the scale of 4,000 pounds per plane per trip were not the slightest bit interested in climbing or mountaineering. Money? Of course.
However, those that found the plane and its cargo after the crash turned their harvest into all kinds of endeavors and investments that have led to some great things in the climbing/mountaineering world.
When I first started my research, I knew nothing of those that found the plane and what it eventually led to. I only knew the plane side of the story. So, if you are interested, do a little googling.
So far, there have been less than six people on a total of seven climbing bulletin boards that reach from the West coast to the UK that have held a negative position about this book. What cracks me up, we are not painting a picture of the drug dealer being a virtuous person. We are only telling a piece of history as it is. Now if you don't like what you hear about history, I can't do much about that. Yes, you are welcomed to your opinion, but I think it ought to have something to do with what the subject matter is. Other wise its only spray.
On that note, I'm not into making this a pissing match. I'm trying to gather information so this book can be writen accurately.
|
|
|
|
|
dynosore
Jul 18, 2005, 8:50 PM
Post #47 of 153
(33360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1768
|
In reply to: On the other hand, many people benefited from the crash. Lives were changed for the positive.
And if I pimped my daughters out I could buy some more climbing gear, maybe take a road trip too. Doesn't make it right. Sounds like an interesting story, but you'll never convince me that more harm wasn't done by the folks selling all this dope than by the "good" that came from it. I lived that lifestyle when I was younger and I know all to well all the sorts of things that go on because of "harmless" marijuana.
Anyone that thinks that the world wouldn't be better off without recreational drugs, including marijuana, probably has used a little too much already. Good luck with your book.
|
|
|
|
|
the_antoon
Jul 18, 2005, 10:09 PM
Post #48 of 153
(33066 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 428
|
HAHAHAHA
ok...I can totally see a good versus bad of pot argument about to break out here, which I'll go ahead and summarize in advance for all you readers out there.
Drugs=Bad
No Drugs=Good
(Ignorance is bliss aint it...)
Now back to the real world. Nothing is that black and white, ESPECIALLY when we are talking about something like marijuana. I'm not even going to go into how damn near every credible study performed has said it's more or less harmless. There were a lot of great stories that arose from that turn of events and it will be interesting to read about. Now I hardly think the personal attacks are necessary. Almost as annoying as people jumping in and arguing about the morality of selling weed 30 years ago.
Wish I could help as far as info and stories go. Can't wait to read it all.
|
|
|
|
|
jv
Jul 19, 2005, 12:00 AM
Post #49 of 153
(33066 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 26, 2003
Posts: 363
|
In reply to: My mate had pot in a recreational way, weekends and stuff while at uni. Anyway some other associate that knew him, but was not a friend, claimed to the debt collectors(bikers) that he had their money for some pot. He was not involved with this particular person or pot, but ended up getting his fingers chopped off just because he knew the other guy, but does not know who this guy is. I had the luxary of being taped for 2 hours, and petrol pored on me because I was his flat mate. To you small minded fools who say pot never killed anyone, well you just go on believing that. Drugs and the industry that supports it kills many people, drug dealers kill many people, if you dont think it kills where have you been??
Good point. If marijuana had been legal, none of this would have happened.
|
|
|
|
|
jv
Jul 19, 2005, 12:04 AM
Post #50 of 153
(33066 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 26, 2003
Posts: 363
|
In reply to: Anyone [who] thinks that the world wouldn't be better off without recreational drugs, including marijuana, probably has used a little too much already.
I don't think the world would be better off without alcohol, though it does take a fearsome toll on those who are powerless to limit their intake. If legalized, I think marijuana would create far fewer health problems than alcohol does.
JV
|
|
|
|
|
drector
Jul 19, 2005, 12:30 AM
Post #51 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 1037
|
In reply to: However, those that found the plane and its cargo after the crash turned their harvest into all kinds of endeavors and investments that have led to some great things in the climbing/mountaineering world.
If "harvest" were changed to "drug sales" then this story would be technically more accurate. I would think that writing a book like this requires utmost accuracy.
In reply to: So far, there have been less than six people on a total of seven climbing bulletin boards that reach from the West coast to the UK that have held a negative position about this book.
I think I must be missing something because I never commented about the book itself. I'd buy the book in a second because it is a great part of the US climbing history. At least part of the cultural history. I also have nothing against those who participated in those dealings. I don't even know them although I think I would like to. I just think that earlier posts I've seen, that say some people improved their lives, bla bla bla... without stating that they sold drugs to do so, was a little bit inaccurate by ommission.
I also think climbers are pretty clever and that some or all of these people that turned their profit into successful ventures would have been successful anyways. It's the people that make business successful, not the money.
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
okie_redneck
Jul 19, 2005, 1:20 AM
Post #52 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 303
|
I wish you the bast of luck with this book. Please let us all know when you get a definite publishing date so we can all get a copy. Also ignore the ignorant comments of a few blowhards here. They get sand in their vaginas over a dog in the campsite next to them, so anything positive arising from a story involving marajuana sales/use has a tendancy to really grind that sand in. If they didn't have something to bitch about, they'd probably stop climbing entirely. It's funny that those are the people who could really use a joint.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jul 19, 2005, 2:50 AM
Post #53 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Oakie, thank you. You are correct on a number of your observations.
Stay tuned, when the book goes to print we'll be happy to let the board know.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Jul 20, 2005, 8:11 AM
Post #54 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
In reply to: And if I pimped my daughters out I could buy some more climbing gear, maybe take a road trip too. Doesn't make it right. Sounds like an interesting story, but you'll never convince me that more harm wasn't done by the folks selling all this dope than by the "good" that came from it. I lived that lifestyle when I was younger and I know all to well all the sorts of things that go on because of "harmless" marijuana. Anyone that thinks that the world wouldn't be better off without recreational drugs, including marijuana, probably has used a little too much already. Good luck with your book.
Beating a dead horse here, but the thing you seem to be missing here is that the drugs would've been sold regardless of the plane's safe arrival at its destination. At worst, this crash slowed down the particularly unscrupulous people that make the drug trade the nasty business it is. At best, you had a group of climbers who didn't resort to impromptu amputations to sell their marijauna.
Its a value judgement. Given, the users still lose, but think about who gained from this. Is it better that some climbers had better lives? Or that drug dealers had more money to continue their nasty business? Which is better? That's the point. In a perfect world, when the plane crashed, its entire cargo would've burned. But its not a perfect world, and at least somebody other than the drug cartels benefitted.
|
|
|
|
|
paddy
Jul 26, 2005, 6:34 PM
Post #55 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 19, 2005
Posts: 11
|
I can't really help with names, but I remember that crash. A number of climbers (I won't mention any names) headed up to the crash site, looking to get some free grass. I was going to head up but had second thoughts. I have to say though, that there was a certain buzz (nop pun intended) in the Valley about the incident.
|
|
|
|
|
mtnbkrxtrordnair
Jul 26, 2005, 6:46 PM
Post #56 of 153
(33243 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 267
|
In reply to: In a perfect world, when the plane crashed, its entire cargo would've burned.
In a perfect world, I would have been standing downwind when it happened.
|
|
|
|
|
noshoesnoshirt
Jul 26, 2005, 7:21 PM
Post #57 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2002
Posts: 440
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: They benefited by selling drugs that ended up in the hands of 9-year-old kids at the elementary school. Dave Yep. And the kids probably knocked over a liquor store to get the money. Then they prostituted themselves and started shooting heroin into their eyeballs. Eat me. I'm sorry. I just thought that the only way to make money from drugs is to sell them. I'm sure peoples lives didn't get better because they smoked the pot and somehow became business moguls. I guess I was wrong. And don't say "Eat me." to me jackass. I didn't say s--- like that to you. Dave
I think you missed what was a bit too subtle of a sarcastic note in my comment. Nine year old kids don't exactly constitute a large portion of drug consumers.
You seem to believe that drugs are unequivically bad. I'm OK with that. Just don't ever again drink beer, or coffee, or a caffienated beverage, or use aspirin or ibuprofin, or take cough medicine, or avail yourself of antibiotics or anti-inflammatories.
Heck, let's look at that mainstay of realistic thinking, "D.A.R.E.", and see what they have to say about drugs.
In reply to: A drug can be defined as any chemical substance which alters the way a person's body or mind works. This does not include food, air and liquid which our bodies need to work properly.
Oh yeah, by the way, eat me.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jul 27, 2005, 3:30 AM
Post #58 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Ya gotta love it when people can stay on point. Must be either the drugs or the lack of drugs. Either way, the point of this thread is to ask people that might have stories to tell about the incident to get in touch with me.
|
|
|
|
|
clintoris
Jul 27, 2005, 4:21 PM
Post #59 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2004
Posts: 93
|
In reply to: I wish you the bast of luck with this book. Please let us all know when you get a definite publishing date so we can all get a copy. Also ignore the ignorant comments of a few blowhards here. They get sand in their vaginas over a dog in the campsite next to them, so anything positive arising from a story involving marajuana sales/use has a tendancy to really grind that sand in. If they didn't have something to bitch about, they'd probably stop climbing entirely. It's funny that those are the people who could really use a joint.
yeah some of these people need a back-hoe...
...to dig all the sand out of their pussies.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Aug 1, 2005, 2:26 AM
Post #60 of 153
(33245 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Clint, thanks for driving my point home.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Nov 3, 2005, 7:16 AM
Post #61 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Its been quite a long time since I've posted an update.
So far I've interviewed over two dozen people that were involved either directly or indirectly with this event.
What has surfaced is that there are many that either claim to have been involved or have let it be believed that they were, have not. They never participated. On the other hand, some of the stories from those that really did attend have been amazing! Some truly humorous stories that have come from their participation in this 30 year old event turned mystery turned legend.
I thank all that have been willing to come forward and tell me what really went on back thirty years ago.
I'm not finished. So, again, anyone that has any stories to tell about the event, please contact me.
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Nov 3, 2005, 7:39 AM
Post #62 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
By the way, if anyone can educate me on how to post photos, I have some
of the crash site I'd love to show.
Help!
|
|
|
|
|
t-dog
Deleted
Nov 3, 2005, 8:31 AM
Post #63 of 153
(33243 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
First of all, to post photos, they need to be uploaded to a server somewhere on the web.
Then, open a browser window and go to the page with said picture on it, right-click, select "properties" and copy the URL it gives you.
Now in your post, type
http://url_for_the_image_you_just_got
and voila!
If you don't have your photos uploaded anywhere, you might be able to put them up here on RC.com
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Nov 12, 2005, 7:41 AM
Post #64 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Make it easy...don't they? LOL....NOT
|
|
|
|
|
gullwing19
Nov 12, 2005, 8:51 AM
Post #65 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 121
|
Hey!
Who's parkin on the puffer. Pass dat bi-atch
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Nov 12, 2005, 7:13 PM
Post #66 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Or, as the old guys would say, "Quit Bogarting"
|
|
|
|
|
brucec
Nov 20, 2005, 2:12 AM
Post #67 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 3
|
You probably have all the previously published info you need....but you might check back issues for a magazine called Mountain Gazette - I recall reading about this in the late '70's in that mag.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Nov 27, 2005, 8:27 AM
Post #68 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
brucec...Yep, believe it or not, it was that column that turned "us" on to the entire climbing side of the crash. Last April was when we googled the name of the pilot, the crash site, and others and found out about what went on in Yosemite outside of the crash that we knew about. Our knowledge was from the plane, its cargo, and its history.
Thanks for the thought...its been what has led us to some great stories.
|
|
|
|
|
hossjulia
Nov 28, 2005, 7:49 PM
Post #69 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 57
|
Great thread! Just found it looking for something else.
I had the privilege of sitting around a campfire this summer hearing stories of this very crash.
Unfortunately, my short term memory is shot, and I can't remember any of the names involved. Will look forward to the book. After hearing the rumors for years, it'll be good to have a fact-based book about it. That's how the camp fire discussion got started, I asked if they knew anything about it, and got a story that went on for, well, a while, complete with side stories and spray.
The web of connections that have come down from this crash is truly amazing. Connections. Being made every day that we don't, and won't ever know about. Unless it involves something of this magnitude.
Keep us posted here about the book, and condolences to Pam and her daughter.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Dec 28, 2005, 1:32 AM
Post #70 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Sorry to let this lay for as long as it did. HJ, you are hitting the nail on the head with your posting. There have been so many rumors that have tuned into fact over the years that some have forgotten what went on even as they themselves participated in it. Thirty yeas is still a long time and for many it has been a foggy trip...so to speak.
|
|
|
|
|
aspiringmonkey
Dec 28, 2005, 4:49 AM
Post #71 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 56
|
UMMMMMM.....chronic
|
|
|
|
|
ledavis23
Mar 3, 2006, 12:58 AM
Post #72 of 153
(33244 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 9, 2005
Posts: 108
|
In reply to: You seem to believe that drugs are unequivically bad. I'm OK with that. Just don't ever again drink beer, or coffee, or a caffienated beverage, or use aspirin or ibuprofin, or take cough medicine, or avail yourself of antibiotics or anti-inflammatories.
That's some kind of religious perspective, isn't it?
Great thread!
|
|
|
|
|
7robbster3
Mar 5, 2006, 11:37 PM
Post #73 of 153
(35426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2006
Posts: 24
|
ricknie
I forgot to tell you that there are several pictures out there on this. The one I remember best is of the propellor and the gear piles at the lake. People would ski in, dump their gear out, & load their packs ( I believe the Kelty Tioga was prefered for it size ) with as much of the bales as they could get their hands on. For a long time the valley was so saturated that you almost couldn't give it away. As to the pilots-- they supposedly weren't the only one's who died in this affair. The original discoverers were rumored to have met w/ untimely & suspicious deaths -- can't say, but that was the word in the valley way back then. I'm curious, did you hear about the briefcase & that whole story?
|
|
|
|
|
alvinswill
Mar 6, 2006, 1:12 AM
Post #74 of 153
(35426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2005
Posts: 14
|
The book was "Angels of Light" by Jeff Long circa 84 or so.
Some funny history goes along with the book. It was optioned by a small production company in 87. I was brought in to help out with the screenplay. Anyhow the draft went all over the place and ended up rewritten at least a dozen times and ended up as the film "Cliff Hanger." No dope in it at this point, only large amounts of cash and Sly Stallone saving the day.
A fair amount of people made some money out of the crash. It was funny because people who you had known for sometime who had always been broke all of the sudden had cars and actual climbing gear.
Good luck with the book.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Mar 7, 2006, 6:05 AM
Post #75 of 153
(35426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
7robbster3, any idea where those images might be?
As for the four that first found the crash site, only one is still living. I know who he is. The wife of one of them lives not far from me and we've been in touch.
About the brief case, as usual, I've heard a number of stories as well as what the pilot and copilot actually carried. Some are correct, some are a little bit loose and some are pretty far out there. Either way you cut it, the stories are great.
Alvinswill, after I found a used copy of "Angels of Light" and after reading it I talked to the pilot's wife to see just how much of it was true. Pretty amazing facts considering it was a novel. I've talked to Jeff Long. His take on the book and the movie make for great listening.
|
|
|
|
|
alvinswill
Mar 7, 2006, 6:35 AM
Post #76 of 153
(39656 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2005
Posts: 14
|
Glad you got in touch with Jeff. He's got that story down pat.
|
|
|
|
|
7robbster3
Mar 7, 2006, 7:29 AM
Post #77 of 153
(39656 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2006
Posts: 24
|
ricknie
Only one's left?, sad to hear that.
The pictures....
I haven't seen those in 20+ years. I do remember that we were laughing/crying when we were striving on min. wage to get gear & here we're looking at piles & piles of it dumped out on the ground.
Alvinswill,
You hit the nail on the head.. I wonder what this unknown fact did for the pushing of the progress of climbing in the valley...
...another of life's odd realities.......
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Mar 7, 2006, 9:06 AM
Post #78 of 153
(39656 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Probably make another great John Long story about what might have happened if the crash never happened.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Nov 23, 2006, 5:22 AM
Post #79 of 153
(22477 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Like all good stories, what appears to be real and what appears to be legend sometimes blend.
The fact is that all four that found the plane are still alive. I just talked to the guy that first discovered the wing and reported it to the Rangers. I also talked to the guy that was about 40 feet behind him.
People still keep coming out of the woodwork to tell their stories. Like the chief mechanic for the airplane when it was owned by the world's third largest steel company. It was used as one of their executive aircraft.
Or how about the reporter that was poking around the Curry Company's employee tent cabins to find out more about the story.
The saga continues
|
|
|
|
|
superbum
Apr 9, 2007, 6:21 AM
Post #80 of 153
(22246 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2002
Posts: 822
|
UPDATE?????????
Howsit comin along? Book done yet? Any new insights, etc, etc...??????
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Apr 9, 2007, 6:46 AM
Post #81 of 153
(22238 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Spent a day with the #2 guy in the drug operation. You'll not believe what he does now!
Turns out that there was quite a battle in Hollywood about Cliffhanger . The specifics I'll put in the book, but I guarantee it'll be an eye opener.
The plane wasn't what they always thought it was. It saw duty in W.W.II as a fighter bomber, not a cargo hauler. That also means the quantity of dope on board wasn't what they thought it was either.
I also have photos of the pilot making his first trek from Mexico on foot with a backpack full of dope.
(This post was edited by ricknie on Apr 9, 2007, 7:06 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
scuclimber
Apr 20, 2007, 2:38 AM
Post #82 of 153
(22159 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 1007
|
Wow, that's cool. Make sure to post up and let everybody know when it's published. I'd love to read it. It turns out that a guy I used to work with smoked some of that stuff in the Valley all those years ago. He said from what he remembered he thought some aviation fuel got into some of it because it was interesting stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Apr 20, 2007, 3:51 AM
Post #83 of 153
(22134 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Yep, that was the stuff and yep, that was why everyone called lightning. |
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jul 29, 2007, 4:34 AM
Post #84 of 153
(20783 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Just when I think I'm putting it all together someone calls out of the blue and jams a wrench in the gears. They end up opening up more doors that lead to more intrigue. So all I can say is stay tuned...more to follow
|
|
|
|
|
EPiCJAMES
Aug 19, 2007, 1:25 AM
Post #85 of 153
(20624 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2007
Posts: 391
|
well, i just read through all of these posts. sounds like a great story. anything new?
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Aug 19, 2007, 10:26 PM
Post #86 of 153
(20543 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
EpicJames...there is always something new. I have to say that just about every other day I'm contacted by someone that either made it to the lake, knew the pilots and or drug organization, or had something to do with the plane in its previous lives.
|
|
|
|
|
skinner
Aug 21, 2007, 1:23 AM
Post #87 of 153
(20471 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
|
gullwing19 wrote: Hey! Who's parkin on the puffer. Pass dat bi-atch
ricknie wrote: Or, as the old guys would say, *Quit Bogarting*
Thanks for the translation ricknie!
Wonder where that came from "Bogarting"? Did Humphrey have a habit of "parkin on the puffer" or something?
Could make an interesting footnote in your book
(This post was edited by skinner on Aug 21, 2007, 1:26 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Aug 21, 2007, 1:52 AM
Post #88 of 153
(20460 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Dayuum...just what I need...more research.
(This post was edited by ricknie on Aug 21, 2007, 2:49 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
skinner
Aug 21, 2007, 2:02 AM
Post #89 of 153
(20456 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
|
Just curious if you have any idea's for a title yet?
I'm really looking forward to this, as a "Book" and a "Story" about an interesting piece of history.
I wonder if those who have been condemning the possible climbers who profited, would be willing to forfeit the portion of their racks, if they were to discover it was manufactured by someone who got their start as a result of selling recovered jet-fuel pot? They couldn't sell the gear either or they would be just another dealer down the line 
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Aug 21, 2007, 2:19 AM
Post #90 of 153
(20448 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Yep, got a name. I've been asked not to put it out there yet.
As for the climbers that made their way up and back down. I'd love to do a chapter on "Where would we be if it didn't happen"?
That kind of speculation reaches not only the climbing community, but also the law enforcement guys as well. For some, this was their intro into something of this magnitude and changed how they saw like events as they made their way through the mill.
|
|
|
|
|
dynoho
Aug 21, 2007, 2:46 AM
Post #91 of 153
(20433 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 285
|
skinner wrote: I wonder if those who have been condemning the possible climbers who profited, would be willing to forfeit the portion of their racks, if they were to discover it was manufactured by someone who got their start as a result of selling recovered jet-fuel pot? They couldn't sell the gear either or they would be just another dealer down the line
^Funny.
The posts on the RC and ST threads have very different vibes about this story. I have bit my tongue here for awhile.
Too many here have bought into the theory that because it is illegal, it is wrong/taboo/sinful. Do your research and you will find the reason it is illegal is wrong. Many doctors believe that alcohol, tobacco/nicotine and caffeine are more dangerous but deemed legal. This is a point I don't care to argue here. There weren't school yard sales, assassinations of judges or other unsavory associations with terrorism and drug deals, this is all DEA propaganda.
The fact is, this is history, and it is our history, that of our sport. It occurred in the climbing Mecca of the US, if not the World. If you don't want to buy the book, don't. If you want to believe that many of the great climbing luminaries were saints, go ahead. I might add, that with this rationale, you should also turn off the radio for fear of listening to the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zepplin, Grateful Dead, Doors, Pink Floyd, Snoop, Willie Nelson..... I could go on and on and ON.
Before you flame, if you are a real climber, I would request that read the thread on ST. It is very interesting.
Edited: Grammatical error, there may be more.
-Jeff
(This post was edited by dynoho on Aug 21, 2007, 3:35 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
trundlebum
Sep 8, 2007, 1:18 AM
Post #92 of 153
(20140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 18, 2007
Posts: 35
|
Funny Thread:
What's with the inevietable moral debate?
Anyway...
I recall my first trip to the Valley (fall 78) there was still lots of free weed floating around. I recall being in the Camp4 rescue site gym and this guy busts out a number, lit it and I thought 'WTF?' ... it kind of sparkled. A rescue site regular was sitting there and noticed my perplexed look at the way the dube burned and laughed and said to one of the guys "that's that sparkler weed, crap from the crash isn't it? Most of that stuff was total trash I can't believe it's still around". One of the guys said "we don't know where it's from, we just bought this really big bag for next to nothing from a Curry employee". The rescue site regular laughed and said you got ripped off.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Sep 8, 2007, 4:57 AM
Post #93 of 153
(20094 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Funny, the stuff at the time was going for $400 a pound. Now back then that wasn't on a par with Columbian Gold, Panama Red, or Tie Stick (as Cheech and Chong referred to it as), but it was pretty good stuff as commercially grown dope was concerned.
Over the past two years since I've started the research for this book I've come across many up and down the West coast that remember the dope, but had no idea where it came from or what was behind it.
So once again this story seems to reach out and grab plenty....six degrees of seperation...as they say.
|
|
|
|
|
EPiCJAMES
Sep 8, 2007, 11:56 PM
Post #94 of 153
(20067 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2007
Posts: 391
|
this story keeps getting better and better. hurry up with that book!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
markguycan
Sep 9, 2007, 8:36 PM
Post #96 of 153
(19974 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 26, 2003
Posts: 136
|
good luck on the book, I enjoyed "Angles of Light" and will look forward to your version. When you're done consider making a screenplay as "cliffhanger" did no justice.
|
|
|
|
|
jaybro
Sep 9, 2007, 9:56 PM
Post #97 of 153
(19955 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441
|
See also, 'High Country,' by Nevada Barr, mark.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Sep 9, 2007, 9:57 PM
Post #98 of 153
(20442 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
For those that are following...I've managed to now make contact with old friends of both of the pilots from before they got into the "business". Its been interesting to hear what kind of guys do this stuff, especially from back then.
The chapters keep growning not to mention changing. Just when I think I have all of the details on a given story, someone comes forward with info that blows the first story out of the water. Then its back to the investigative research to make sure that all of the facts are once again true and not just someone's imagination.
|
|
|
|
|
skinner
Sep 16, 2007, 3:23 PM
Post #99 of 153
(20379 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
|
Rick.. are you are planning on including any of these BS stories? I am curious now how far from the truth some of them may have evolved over time.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Sep 16, 2007, 4:41 PM
Post #100 of 153
(20354 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Skinner...yep, but I want to make sure that people don't get the stories mixed up with the truth. I'm sure what will make for interesting reading is when one sees what they thought was the story for the past thirty years, nodding their head in agreement, only to then read what really went on.
I'll make sure there is a defined line between the rumors and the real deal.
|
|
|
|
|
gunksgoer
Sep 16, 2007, 5:50 PM
Post #101 of 153
(16691 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 1290
|
Whats the status on those photos?
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Sep 16, 2007, 5:53 PM
Post #102 of 153
(16685 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Which photos are you referring to? I have tons. Photos of people at the lake partaking in the goodies, standing around drying their take, photos of the plane's history, photos of the pilots and their lives prior to the crash, photos of Jack Dorn before he fell, photos of the lake, and on and on.
Which ones are you talking about?
|
|
|
|
|
jaybro
Sep 16, 2007, 7:16 PM
Post #103 of 153
(16656 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441
|
well, I'm looking forward to reading this book.
BITD I liked the article in Mtn Gazette, wonder if that's avaiible on their site ... only one way to find out.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Sep 16, 2007, 7:28 PM
Post #104 of 153
(16648 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Yeah, that article is what launched our idea of a book on the subject
|
|
|
|
|
skinner
Sep 21, 2007, 10:44 PM
Post #105 of 153
(16570 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
|
Hey ricknie, has anything new of interest come your way lately ?
(This post was edited by skinner on Jan 26, 2008, 3:09 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
gregpphoto
Oct 4, 2007, 7:44 AM
Post #106 of 153
(16413 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2007
Posts: 35
|
[quote "happiegrrrl"]First thing - condolences for the friends and family of the two pilots who died in that crash. ....[/quote]
hahah condolences for a pilot smuggling drugs. thats just humorous.
|
|
|
|
|
colkurtz
Oct 4, 2007, 8:54 AM
Post #107 of 153
(16408 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 115
|
condolences on your lack of artistic talent. you trying thats humour for me.
|
|
|
|
|
gregpphoto
Oct 4, 2007, 9:32 AM
Post #108 of 153
(16401 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2007
Posts: 35
|
lack of artistic talent? www.gregpphoto.com
Yea, condolences for those who smuggle our drugs. Yup.
Sucks he died, may he rest in peace. But fact is, he was doing federal time for what he was doing if caught. i was only commenting on that.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Oct 4, 2007, 4:57 PM
Post #109 of 153
(16342 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Trolling on a thread like this makes for lousy reading.
They didn't die because they were running drugs. They died because the left engine failed. They could have been deliverying photos from a New Jersey photographer for all that mattered.
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Oct 4, 2007, 5:25 PM
Post #110 of 153
(16327 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
ricknie wrote: They could have been deliverying photos from a New Jersey photographer for all that mattered.
But they weren't, they were delivering drugs. Just pointing it out.
I knew a guy that was higher than a kite and launched himself off a cliff thinking he could fly. The drugs didn't kill him, the fall did. Again, just saying.
Agreed that trolling in this thread is unnecessary.
|
|
|
|
|
gregpphoto
Oct 4, 2007, 7:43 PM
Post #111 of 153
(16293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2007
Posts: 35
|
ricknie wrote: Trolling on a thread like this makes for lousy reading. They didn't die because they were running drugs. They died because the left engine failed. They could have been deliverying photos from a New Jersey photographer for all that mattered.
Ya know i never did think of it that way. But, they wouldnt have been in that specific situation if it werent for the product they were delivering. I was never saying "oh awesome they died" cuz however natural death may be, its not fun for those involved, nor their loved ones. I was just making light of what i found to be humorous. Sorry if that put anyone off. I dont even know why someone would bring artistic value into that.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jan 18, 2008, 7:42 AM
Post #112 of 153
(15932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Drug use in the mid 70s was not what it is today. Not the level of social tolerance nor the Fed's viewpoint. Kind of like slavery, we all agree it was a terrible situation, but it was considered by many an acceptable way of doing business. I'm not condoning nor chastising drug running back in the mid 70s. But, if you really want to make a judgment call, you need to do your homework on the social situation at the time.
TV shows like Miami Vice didn't come out until the early 80s to glorify the life of the drug runners as well as the DEA agents that fought them.
So I suggest to you that you do your historical homework before you lay judgment.
Remember, this book will be a historical account of the situation at the time.
|
|
|
|
|
diebetes
Jan 18, 2008, 11:54 AM
Post #113 of 153
(15913 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2007
Posts: 106
|
OP,
There is an article in the latest Rock and Ice (Bachar on the cover) in which they mention that Bachar managed to make 8 grand off of the weed he recovered...
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Jan 18, 2008, 12:55 PM
Post #114 of 153
(15902 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
ricknie wrote: Drug use in the mid 70s was not what it is today. Not the level of social tolerance nor the Fed's viewpoint. Kind of like slavery, we all agree it was a terrible situation, but it was considered by many an acceptable way of doing business. I'm not condoning nor chastising drug running back in the mid 70s. But, if you really want to make a judgment call, you need to do your homework on the social situation at the time. TV shows like Miami Vice didn't come out until the early 80s to glorify the life of the drug runners as well as the DEA agents that fought them. So I suggest to you that you do your historical homework before you lay judgment. Remember, this book will be a historical account of the situation at the time.
Not to get to far off track but........
I whole heartedly disagree with your assumption. Drugs are far more prevalent today, and in a wider format. You also have a higher level of tolerance today with a much broader range and percentage of people doing drugs. Drug dealing back in the 70's was much more underground as compared to todays standards. Just using the stuff back then warranted a high probability of prosecution. BITD the fear of the 'man' was ever present, today the average user isn't even targeted by the 'man', nor is the average small time dealer.
|
|
|
|
|
gregpphoto
Jan 18, 2008, 4:44 PM
Post #115 of 153
(15875 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2007
Posts: 35
|
seeing as were already off topic,
I agree with you on the fact that the use of drugs has broadened but I think the quality of some of those drugs has declined. It makes sense, theres only so much good stuff and with so many people doing them, it must go fast and be hard to find. Talking to my dad, he says the best weed he ever smoked was back on the 60's and 70's, and in Vietnam.
just my two dinmebags
|
|
|
|
|
boymeetsrock
Jan 18, 2008, 6:10 PM
Post #116 of 153
(15835 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709
|
ricknie.... Dude 3 years? When is the book coming out?
And enough debating drug use and sales. Who f'n cares in relation to what a bunch of social outcasts did 30 years ago. Were this a current topic the debate might hold some water, but it was thirty years ago!!
Tell a story, ask a question, or STFU! This is history & trivia... not soapbox.
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Jan 18, 2008, 7:05 PM
Post #117 of 153
(15786 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
boymeetsrock wrote: Who f'n cares in relation to what a bunch of social outcasts did 30 years ago.
Guess you don't read to well, thats what the whole thread is about.
Quit being an ass, it helped how?
She put her current opinion out there and I gave it a current response.
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Jan 18, 2008, 7:07 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
hacksaw
Jan 18, 2008, 7:21 PM
Post #118 of 153
(15773 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2004
Posts: 169
|
I'd just like to see the book published, since I'm interested in climbing history. Just like I'm really enjoying reading Pete Takeda's book, An Eye At The Top Of The World. Its about Indian and American climbers placing a atomic powered listening device on top of Nanda Devi in the 1960's.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jan 18, 2008, 7:32 PM
Post #119 of 153
(15766 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Since the book will be a historical accounting of what occurred, I doubt if anyone would want an inaccurate portrayal of the event. Getting valid data to support someone's statement isn't always easy.
To be honest, I thought I'd have this written and published by Christmas of 2005. I had no idea how far this story went, who it touched, and the long term effects on everything from the climbing community to the movie industry. Many people owe their current success due in part to their exposure to this event. And not all are climbers.
|
|
|
|
|
boymeetsrock
Jan 19, 2008, 6:05 PM
Post #120 of 153
(15673 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709
|
Well keep up the good work ricknie. I'm sure we all will apreciate your attention to detail and fact vrs fiction. It sounds like this will be a very enjoyable glimps at a small part of our climbing history.
Do you feel like your any closer to the finish, or does each turn continue to lengthen the distance?
Moose, I did read the whole thread, and my stfu was not directed at any one person. Opinions are like... well. I'm interested in the signal not the noise.
Ricknie is going to write about this topic, whether people think the subject is taboo or not. It sounds like it will be an account of apparently pertinent history, not a glroification of a bunch of hippie pot heads. While these heads may have had an influence on the climbing community, I am sure they had no influence on the drug trade (even in their own microcosm of yosemity, besides perhaps, temporarily lower prices). But I digress.....
|
|
|
|
|
skiclimb
Jan 19, 2008, 6:07 PM
Post #121 of 153
(15670 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 1938
|
ricknie wrote: Many people owe their current success due in part to their exposure to this event. And not all are climbers.
Heh .. True
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jan 19, 2008, 6:19 PM
Post #122 of 153
(15669 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Not to promote other sites, but you might want to cruise this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=73572#msg81828
Pay close attention to the comments posted by one "Chainsaw" and read the responses. Makes for interesting parallel thinking
|
|
|
|
|
moose_droppings
Jan 19, 2008, 7:16 PM
Post #123 of 153
(15660 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
|
boymeetsrock wrote: Opinions are like... well.
You mean, unless its your own, because thats all this is.
boymeetsrock wrote: Ricknie is going to write about this topic, whether people think the subject is taboo or not. It sounds like it will be an account of apparently pertinent history, not a glroification of a bunch of hippie pot heads. While these heads may have had an influence on the climbing community, I am sure they had no influence on the drug trade (even in their own microcosm of yosemity, besides perhaps, temporarily lower prices). But I digress...
So if you got more to say, take your own advice.
boymeetsrock wrote: Tell a story, ask a question, or STFU! This is history & trivia... not soapbox. |
|
|
|
|
boymeetsrock
Jan 20, 2008, 12:36 AM
Post #124 of 153
(15631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709
|
No, I'm done now. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Jan 20, 2008, 12:41 AM
Post #125 of 153
(15630 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
gregpphoto wrote: [quote "happiegrrrl"]First thing - condolences for the friends and family of the two pilots who died in that crash. ....[/quote] hahah condolences for a pilot smuggling drugs. thats just humorous.
Emphasis mine.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jan 20, 2008, 12:44 AM
Post #126 of 153
(16447 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Have you ever offered your condolenced to someone that lost a family member due to.....naw....I won't get started here. Sometimes the trolls get to have their moments.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Jan 20, 2008, 12:55 AM
Post #127 of 153
(16443 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
Indeed. The devil takes his due. I don't care how long it takes, ricknie. Make it good. Make it right. And I'll be there to buy it in hardcover.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Jan 20, 2008, 1:08 AM
Post #128 of 153
(16436 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
j_ung wrote: Indeed. The devil takes his due. " Notice I said troll, not devil. Very big difference
|
|
|
|
|
deepplaymedia
Jan 21, 2008, 5:42 AM
Post #129 of 153
(16391 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 192
|
i was just talking to a mate the other day about this crash (and some mutual friends who benefited enormously from it)... pretty interesting bit of climbing history!
Please let me know when it comes out, i will definitely be buying a copy.
|
|
|
|
|
the_climber
Jan 21, 2008, 6:53 PM
Post #130 of 153
(16341 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2003
Posts: 6142
|
You can bet that there will be a whole pile of orders for the book from Calgary when you're done. There are a ton of us waiting patently for this one.
|
|
|
|
|
skinner
Jan 26, 2008, 6:17 PM
Post #131 of 153
(16107 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2004
Posts: 1747
|
hacksaw wrote: I'd just like to see the book published, since I'm interested in climbing history. Just like I'm really enjoying reading Pete Takeda's book, An Eye At The Top Of The World. Its about Indian and American climbers placing a atomic powered listening device on top of Nanda Devi in the 1960's.
Ah yes.. the 4lbs of missing (still to this day) plutonium.
Back to the topic at hand,
I'm really frikken curious now which stories that I've heard over the years will turn out to be BS, and which ones had a grain of truth to them. The different versions of the 77 crash have always made for a great campfire tale. As much as want to KNOW, I subscribe to the, "Serve no Wine Before it's Time" philosophy.
the_climber wrote: You can bet that there will be a whole pile of orders for the book from Calgary when you're done. There are a ton of us waiting patently for this one.
Add me to that list of Calgarians
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Feb 16, 2008, 8:57 PM
Post #132 of 153
(15872 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
The different Federal agencies that I have contacted are now coming forward with their info. Sorting through what is fact and what is fiction/legend is becoming very interesting not to mention time consuming.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Feb 16, 2008, 9:16 PM
Post #134 of 153
(15853 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Any funding for this project is coming strictly from me. So far, that's the deal. But, good thought.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Feb 16, 2008, 9:22 PM
Post #135 of 153
(15851 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
Well then, I have one word to say to you: intern. 
Edited to add smiley.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Feb 16, 2008, 9:22 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Feb 16, 2008, 9:23 PM
Post #136 of 153
(15847 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
And by the way, I hope your publisher has some coin laying around to promote this thing. It's got bestseller written all over it.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Feb 16, 2008, 9:24 PM
Post #137 of 153
(15845 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Posted: Looking for intern to do research for free. No benifits, no recognition, no chance for advancement.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Feb 16, 2008, 10:49 PM
Post #138 of 153
(15836 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
Who wouldn't want some of that action? 
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Feb 18, 2008, 1:56 AM
Post #139 of 153
(15758 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
No recognition? Better not forget to put their name in the Acknowledgment part of the book at least.....
And....was J_ung hinting that he might like to work on the project?
|
|
|
|
|
EPiCJAMES
Feb 19, 2008, 3:34 AM
Post #140 of 153
(15699 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2007
Posts: 391
|
ricknie wrote: Posted: Looking for intern to do research for free. No benifits, no recognition, no chance for advancement.
SOLD, haha.
Can't wait for the book to come out!
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Feb 19, 2008, 3:36 AM
Post #141 of 153
(15696 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Well people are still contacting me with great, first time stories. So as the stories come in, away I go with my finger tips on keys.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Feb 19, 2008, 10:52 PM
Post #142 of 153
(15674 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
happiegrrrl wrote: No recognition? Better not forget to put their name in the Acknowledgment part of the book at least..... And....was J_ung hinting that he might like to work on the project?
Ha! I have my own book to worry about.
|
|
|
|
|
boymeetsrock
Oct 7, 2008, 8:18 PM
Post #143 of 153
(14769 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709
|
Well, it's been like six months since you posted last. Hope you've been getting some good typing in.
I have to admit this is the first time I have patiently/ impatiently awaited a book release before.
Seriously though I can't wait to read this!!
|
|
|
|
|
limeydave
Oct 8, 2008, 11:29 AM
Post #144 of 153
(14700 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 23, 2006
Posts: 2453
|
boymeetsrock wrote: Well, it's been like six months since you posted last. Hope you've been getting some good typing in. I have to admit this is the first time I have patiently/ impatiently awaited a book release before. Seriously though I can't wait to read this!!
Didn't you see Numb3rs? I think they skipped the book and turned it onto 41minutes of CBS wankage.
Seriously though - yeah, how's the book coming, I have an amazon voucher.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Oct 11, 2008, 1:36 AM
Post #145 of 153
(14343 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
The book goes well. I'm still interviewing people. Not all of them are climbers. Lots of Park Rangers, even a few of those that were a member of the drug organization. They referred to themselves as "The Company".
Right now I'm reworking the time line of events. The Federal agencies that were involved have been coming forward with their info based on my Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests. Not much news there, but every so often a tid bit that flips everything on its ass, making me go back and re-interview people just to make sure I'm not missing something.
The actual route of the plane vs what the official report was is my lastest focus.
(This post was edited by ricknie on Oct 31, 2008, 5:16 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
boymeetsrock
Nov 3, 2008, 5:32 PM
Post #146 of 153
(13496 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709
|
I can't wait!!!
You should publish the cliff notes first!
|
|
|
|
|
sgreer
Nov 3, 2008, 8:20 PM
Post #147 of 153
(13461 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 112
|
I climb with a guy who said he guided people to the crash to recover some herbs.
PM me
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Nov 4, 2008, 2:46 AM
Post #148 of 153
(13419 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
SGREER, check your email
|
|
|
|
|
throwdown
Apr 29, 2009, 7:08 AM
Post #149 of 153
(12531 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 2, 2009
Posts: 4
|
There is a story By John Long in his book "Long on Adventure" that has some stuff on this and what the people bought with the money they got from the stash. I think its in the story "birds boys" or "rats", can't remember which one but it was a good story! Tell me if you found out about any more books with this in it, thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Apr 29, 2009, 7:45 AM
Post #150 of 153
(12518 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Yes John Long has written quite a lot about this event in many of his publications. To date, I have found roughly half of a dozen books written in the fictitious format that addresses this event. Not all by John Long. However, none of them are factual, and most are speculative.
|
|
|
|
|
limeydave
Apr 30, 2009, 2:29 PM
Post #151 of 153
(3297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 23, 2006
Posts: 2453
|
So.... how's it going? Will I get the book in my stocking at Xmas this year?
|
|
|
|
|
boymeetsrock
Apr 30, 2009, 6:09 PM
Post #152 of 153
(3252 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709
|
I doubt it Dave. Check out the ST thread for some more info.
X-mass 2011? 2012? perhaps.
At least we have some time to save up the $$.
I'm definitely looking forward to it too.
|
|
|
|
|
ricknie
Apr 30, 2009, 6:15 PM
Post #153 of 153
(3251 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2005
Posts: 59
|
Wish I could say that it would be ready by Christmas, but I can't. I'm down to only a few pieces of data that need to be investigated and they are very important. Getting those involved to cooperate rather than provide false or misleading info has been difficult. So, the hunt continues. Thanks for the interest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
