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cwegener
Jun 1, 2005, 3:20 PM
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I hate threads like this because it makes me realize how old I am getting. I remember several people turning a few hours work into cars and dirt bag life styles.
Yes the the pot was saturated with jet fuel that gave it a piquant je ne sai quoi. In '78 I remember sitting in Johnny Rock's VW van, that the pot had bought, at Horse Tooth Reservoir after working on Torture Chamber smoking the last of his stash.
Those were good days and good times.
Chris
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ricknie
Jun 13, 2005, 6:34 AM
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Yep, I know what you are saying. Funny, you'll never teach the young this feeling, it comes with the territory.
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q
Deleted
Jun 24, 2005, 2:47 AM
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Rick,
got your message. no, I haven't heard from C. i suppose she's not into talking about it, or it's the wrong #?
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socialclimber
Jun 24, 2005, 10:44 AM
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I've just read about this accident in Lynn Hills book. I wondered if the aircraft was one of Allen Longs. It crashed about the same time as Long was smuggling plane loads of dope from Colombia. For the record, as far as I know Allen Long was not a climber and not related to John Long .
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ricknie
Jun 27, 2005, 4:56 AM
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The name doesn't ring a bell as far as this "organization" is concerned. I believe that Allen Long(singular) was working with Robert Sabbag on his book "Loaded" and it had more to do with Florida drug running than the West coast.
But, thanks for the lead and the thoughts. Everything helps.
As the old line goes, "If ya got'em, post'em"
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rickrock77
Jul 17, 2005, 1:56 PM
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So the main reason for the plane in the first place was just to carry drugs?
Why is this being made into some sympathetic story when its all about drugs? To the family my sympathy of course fo loosing a husband.
But if its all about drugs well gee how bad should I really feel?
How many lives to drugs claim in a year? Lets write a story about that.
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skinnyclimber
Jul 17, 2005, 2:34 PM
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It's also a story of the drug war, and how good people are getting killed and put in prison for something they feel should not be illegal (pot). I agree with them.
skinny
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noshoesnoshirt
Jul 17, 2005, 4:15 PM
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In reply to: How many lives to drugs claim in a year? Lets write a story about that.
In reply to: Why is this being made into some sympathetic story when its all about drugs? To the family my sympathy of course fo loosing a husband. But if its all about drugs well gee how bad should I really feel?
Eat me.
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q
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Jul 17, 2005, 5:15 PM
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There is no documented case of anyone dying from a pot overdose, ever.
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petsfed
Jul 17, 2005, 5:51 PM
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In one of Jack Roberts' slide shows, he talked about how that particular incident paid for his first trip to Chamonix, basically jump starting his future as an ice climber and alpinist (sponsored by La Sportiva, no less). If you can find him (he's in the Boulder area) he'll probably tell you.
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tenesmus
Jul 17, 2005, 6:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: How many lives to drugs claim in a year? Lets write a story about that. Umm, about a thousand times less than cars. In reply to: Why is this being made into some sympathetic story when its all about drugs? To the family my sympathy of course fo loosing a husband. But if its all about drugs well gee how bad should I really feel? Eat me.
Maybe pot really does make people paranoid.... unless it comes to thinking about the bad things that happen when people use pot. Then it seems to make people really blind.
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rickrock77
Jul 18, 2005, 2:13 AM
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My mate had pot in a recreational way, weekends and stuff while at uni.
Anyway some other associate that knew him, but was not a friend, claimed to the debt collectors(bikers) that he had their money for some pot. He was not involved with this particular person or pot, but ended up getting his fingers chopped off just because he knew the other guy, but does not know who this guy is.
I had the luxary of being taped for 2 hours, and petrol pored on me because I was his flat mate.
To you small minded fools who say pot never killed anyone, well you just go on believing that. Drugs and the industry that supports it kills many people, drug dealers kill many people, if you dont think it kills where have you been??
If I could put drug dealers on one island and have that island suddenly disapear, the world would be a much better place without druggies. If drugs were good, we wouldnt be having this converation.
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ricknie
Jul 18, 2005, 6:34 AM
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We are writing a book about a true event that because of its nature, changed the lives of many people. Two men lost their lives, a wife lost her husband, a daughter lost her father, a family lost their son. There are lessons to be learned here and we hopefully will be able to tell the story in such a way as to remove some of the glory that surrounds the Hollywood image of the big time drug dealer. It ended in disaster for many people.
On the other hand, many people benefited from the crash. Lives were changed for the positive. Businesses were started that many of you that climb today owe your safety, security, and ability to do what could not be done in the late 1970s, can be done today. Negative life styles were changed to positive. Relationships were developed that resulted in families. Careers were created.
So don't be so quick to judge. Every time you go to the movies to see your favorite star, just think where the idea for that movie might have come from. The next time you use a device for keeping warm or secure on a climb, put a little thought into how it came to be.
When the book comes out, I think it will be an eye opener for all three sides of the story. The plane, the Valley climbers, and those that were investigating the crash.
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rickrock77
Jul 18, 2005, 7:09 AM
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Ricknie thats the best damn reply I could have gotten.
Thankyou for the inteligent thoughtfull way you stated it.
Will keep eyes posted for the book then.
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dynosore
Jul 18, 2005, 12:57 PM
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In reply to: The next time you use a device for keeping warm or secure on a climb, put a little thought into how it came to be.
Condolences to the family, but...
Cmon'; without the all encompassing good that large scale drug dealing is, we wouldn't have the carabiner or cam? LOL
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rickrock77
Jul 18, 2005, 1:48 PM
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Is this story really the basis for that cliff hanger movie? This was mentioned in a privious post, but I didnt know if it was legit or not.
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hacksaw
Jul 18, 2005, 5:10 PM
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There was once a drug smuggling airplane that landed on top of a mesa here in Colorado. A rancher discovered the empty plane sitting on top of his mesa. As I recall he called the DEA because the plance smelled of pot. They came looked at the plane, fixxed the engin and flew the plane off the mesa. The question was how did the smugglers get the plane off loaded and all the cargo driven away so quick. Anytime, I hear the song "Smuggler's Blues," I think of the Yosemite plane crash and this plane on the mesa here in Colorado. It makes you wonder how many other missing smuggler planes are still out there........
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drector
Jul 18, 2005, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: On the other hand, many people benefited from the crash. Lives were changed for the positive.
In reply to: So don't be so quick to judge.
They benefited by selling drugs that ended up in the hands of 9-year-old kids at the elementary school.
But I have nothing against a book or a movie on the subject. Let's just hope that for each scene of a dirtbag climber-turned-successful-businessman, that there is a scene showing the outcome of his earlier illegal actions.
I will be try to be fair in saying that it was pot and not cocaine and that the culture was a bit different then. I'm also sure that alcohol has somehow cause many more deaths than pot has caused so it would be better to put the "I don't want to see Innocent people killed" energy that so many are showing on this site into something other than complaining about a book and a plane crash from the past. I can understand complaining about what people did that was dangerous and illegal, but I can't understand the desire to condemn someone writing a book on the subject.
Dave
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noshoesnoshirt
Jul 18, 2005, 6:38 PM
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In reply to: They benefited by selling drugs that ended up in the hands of 9-year-old kids at the elementary school. Dave
Yep. And the kids probably knocked over a liquor store to get the money. Then they prostituted themselves and started shooting heroin into their eyeballs.
Eat me.
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drector
Jul 18, 2005, 7:47 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: They benefited by selling drugs that ended up in the hands of 9-year-old kids at the elementary school. Dave Yep. And the kids probably knocked over a liquor store to get the money. Then they prostituted themselves and started shooting heroin into their eyeballs. Eat me.
I'm sorry. I just thought that the only way to make money from drugs is to sell them. I'm sure peoples lives didn't get better because they smoked the pot and somehow became business moguls. I guess I was wrong.
And don't say "Eat me." to me jackass. I didn't say shit like that to you.
Dave
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ricknie
Jul 18, 2005, 8:30 PM
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Dave, you are looking the wrong direction. Those that were running the drugs on the scale of 4,000 pounds per plane per trip were not the slightest bit interested in climbing or mountaineering. Money? Of course.
However, those that found the plane and its cargo after the crash turned their harvest into all kinds of endeavors and investments that have led to some great things in the climbing/mountaineering world.
When I first started my research, I knew nothing of those that found the plane and what it eventually led to. I only knew the plane side of the story. So, if you are interested, do a little googling.
So far, there have been less than six people on a total of seven climbing bulletin boards that reach from the West coast to the UK that have held a negative position about this book. What cracks me up, we are not painting a picture of the drug dealer being a virtuous person. We are only telling a piece of history as it is. Now if you don't like what you hear about history, I can't do much about that. Yes, you are welcomed to your opinion, but I think it ought to have something to do with what the subject matter is. Other wise its only spray.
On that note, I'm not into making this a pissing match. I'm trying to gather information so this book can be writen accurately.
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dynosore
Jul 18, 2005, 8:50 PM
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In reply to: On the other hand, many people benefited from the crash. Lives were changed for the positive.
And if I pimped my daughters out I could buy some more climbing gear, maybe take a road trip too. Doesn't make it right. Sounds like an interesting story, but you'll never convince me that more harm wasn't done by the folks selling all this dope than by the "good" that came from it. I lived that lifestyle when I was younger and I know all to well all the sorts of things that go on because of "harmless" marijuana.
Anyone that thinks that the world wouldn't be better off without recreational drugs, including marijuana, probably has used a little too much already. Good luck with your book.
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the_antoon
Jul 18, 2005, 10:09 PM
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HAHAHAHA
ok...I can totally see a good versus bad of pot argument about to break out here, which I'll go ahead and summarize in advance for all you readers out there.
Drugs=Bad
No Drugs=Good
(Ignorance is bliss aint it...)
Now back to the real world. Nothing is that black and white, ESPECIALLY when we are talking about something like marijuana. I'm not even going to go into how damn near every credible study performed has said it's more or less harmless. There were a lot of great stories that arose from that turn of events and it will be interesting to read about. Now I hardly think the personal attacks are necessary. Almost as annoying as people jumping in and arguing about the morality of selling weed 30 years ago.
Wish I could help as far as info and stories go. Can't wait to read it all.
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jv
Jul 19, 2005, 12:00 AM
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In reply to: My mate had pot in a recreational way, weekends and stuff while at uni. Anyway some other associate that knew him, but was not a friend, claimed to the debt collectors(bikers) that he had their money for some pot. He was not involved with this particular person or pot, but ended up getting his fingers chopped off just because he knew the other guy, but does not know who this guy is. I had the luxary of being taped for 2 hours, and petrol pored on me because I was his flat mate. To you small minded fools who say pot never killed anyone, well you just go on believing that. Drugs and the industry that supports it kills many people, drug dealers kill many people, if you dont think it kills where have you been??
Good point. If marijuana had been legal, none of this would have happened.
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jv
Jul 19, 2005, 12:04 AM
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In reply to: Anyone [who] thinks that the world wouldn't be better off without recreational drugs, including marijuana, probably has used a little too much already.
I don't think the world would be better off without alcohol, though it does take a fearsome toll on those who are powerless to limit their intake. If legalized, I think marijuana would create far fewer health problems than alcohol does.
JV
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