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curt
Aug 10, 2005, 5:26 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: But, 2001 is also when the NASDAQ tech bubble burst. These recent financial trends can not be analyzed in isolation from one another. It is basically after 2001 that the "smart" money shifted from dot-com investments into real estate. Also, we can't totally blame "out of state" investors. I know plenty of local people who bought three or four houses at a time, while they were under construction, only to "flip" them for profit by the time those homes had finished construction. Curt I also know local people who have "flipped houses", but those houses do end up back on the market. The"out of staters" purchase new homes and try to rent them out, or let them sit vacant while waiting for the price gains. You'd be amazed how many empty homes are sitting in new subdivisions all over the valley. This creates severe inventory and demand problems. I don't disagree with that at all. However, those "flipped" houses are bought at prices perhaps $50k to $100k less than they are resold for--thereby artificially inflating housing prices for the eventual homeowners who actually intend to live in the homes. Curt I tend to think it's the artificial demand from outside money that creates the environment where those kind of price gains are possible. Las Vegas went through a similar process recently, and prices flattened out and demand did return to much more "normal" levels as the builders become hostile and the investors pulled out. The builders in Phoenix are shutting out the investors now, and things will likely flatten out here as well.
Well, I would sure like to think the market will eventually stabilize here, but how are builders "shutting out" investors? How did they do that in Las Vegas? Just curious.
Curt
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hangerlessbolt
Aug 10, 2005, 5:32 AM
Post #277 of 287
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In reply to: In reply to: Are you referring to total household income or personal income? Total. From the US Census Bureau: Real median household income remained unchanged between 2002 and 2003 at $43,318, according to a report released today by the U.S. Census Bureau. At the same time, the nation’s official poverty rate rose from 12.1 percent in 2002 to 12.5 percent in 2003. .
I would presume that's taking into account the billionaires and millionaires as well (who are hardly "average")...which if you took those folks out...would drop the average considerably.
These aren't folks who care about what is going on on Wall Street...or how the stock market is doing.
These aren't folks who are putting money away for retirement...but rather playing the lottery in hopes that their "luck" will change.
They go to their "shit" jobs, eat fast food, drive old cars, and wait for their favorite show to come on tv.
That's the average American.
I'd be interested in a poll...listing various items of perceived importance...and find out what the average American takes stock in.
a) Would you rather have health care or a new set of tires for your truck?
b) Would you rather have your dentist bills covered or a new fishing pole?
c) If you could afford a trailer on an acre of someone else's land in the country or a 5-bedroom home in the suburbs, which would you purchase?
Based on my family's income alone (putting most of them below average)...I know what the answers would be...because I know where they put the money that I've given them.
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bill
Aug 10, 2005, 5:37 AM
Post #278 of 287
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Registered: Apr 4, 2004
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: But, 2001 is also when the NASDAQ tech bubble burst. These recent financial trends can not be analyzed in isolation from one another. It is basically after 2001 that the "smart" money shifted from dot-com investments into real estate. Also, we can't totally blame "out of state" investors. I know plenty of local people who bought three or four houses at a time, while they were under construction, only to "flip" them for profit by the time those homes had finished construction. Curt I also know local people who have "flipped houses", but those houses do end up back on the market. The"out of staters" purchase new homes and try to rent them out, or let them sit vacant while waiting for the price gains. You'd be amazed how many empty homes are sitting in new subdivisions all over the valley. This creates severe inventory and demand problems. I don't disagree with that at all. However, those "flipped" houses are bought at prices perhaps $50k to $100k less than they are resold for--thereby artificially inflating housing prices for the eventual homeowners who actually intend to live in the homes. Curt I tend to think it's the artificial demand from outside money that creates the environment where those kind of price gains are possible. Las Vegas went through a similar process recently, and prices flattened out and demand did return to much more "normal" levels as the builders become hostile and the investors pulled out. The builders in Phoenix are shutting out the investors now, and things will likely flatten out here as well. Well, I would sure like to think the market will eventually stabilize here, but how are builders "shutting out" investors? How did they do that in Las Vegas? Just curious. Curt
In some cases they just out flat out refuse to sell to investors. They run credit checks to see if you already own multiple properties, they write into the contracts that they have to be owner occupied. They can also require you to use their in house lenders, put down large downpayments etc. They basically make the market hostile enough that the investors begin to look elsewhere.
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thorne
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Aug 10, 2005, 12:12 PM
Post #279 of 287
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Econ 101 - The market is driven by supply and demand. The market seeks equilibrium...... and periodically finds it.
Everything else is just drama.
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reno
Aug 10, 2005, 4:52 PM
Post #280 of 287
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Registered: Oct 30, 2001
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In reply to: Econ 101 - The market is driven by supply and demand. The market seeks equilibrium...... and periodically finds it.
Thorne, don't bother. You can't use simple logic with these guys, cause they just don't believe it. Things have to be made complex, so they can say things like "You don't understand, so STFU."
In their world, Occam's Razor is a competitor of the Gillette Mach 3 Turbo.
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bobd1953
Aug 10, 2005, 9:38 PM
Post #281 of 287
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In reply to: Thorne, don't bother. You can't use simple logic with these guys, cause they just don't believe it. Things have to be made complex, so they can say things like "You don't understand, so STFU."
If you think it's that simple..."You don't understand, so STFU."
:lol:
Let get away from theory and into real life.
Reno- How many companies or businesses have you run or been responsible with it's financial well being?
How many people have worked under you and that you were directly responsible for their financial well being?
How many houses have you bought and sold?
How many children have you raise, supported and put through college?
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pinktricam
Aug 10, 2005, 9:47 PM
Post #282 of 287
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Being an artist and art not generally considered being an essential necessity for purposes of living day in and day out, I personally gauge how well our economy's doing by my sales....and guess what? It's been doin' fine, baby :!:
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bobd1953
Aug 10, 2005, 9:59 PM
Post #283 of 287
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In reply to: Being an artist and art not generally considered being an essential necessity for purposes of living day in and day out, I personally gauge how well our economy's doing by my sales....and guess what? It's been doin' fine, baby
Didn't realize that the market for velvet paintings was that strong. :o
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curt
Aug 10, 2005, 9:59 PM
Post #284 of 287
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Registered: Aug 27, 2002
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In reply to: In reply to: Econ 101 - The market is driven by supply and demand. The market seeks equilibrium...... and periodically finds it. Thorne, don't bother. You can't use simple logic with these guys, cause they just don't believe it. Things have to be made complex, so they can say things like "You don't understand, so STFU." In their world, Occam's Razor is a competitor of the Gillette Mach 3 Turbo.
Things shouldn't be made any more complicated than necessary to explain something adequately. However, being more simplistic than that does not work either. You tend to be overly simplistic; but I suppose if the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail, eh?
Curt
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pinktricam
Aug 10, 2005, 10:03 PM
Post #285 of 287
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In reply to: In reply to: Being an artist and art not generally considered being an essential necessity for purposes of living day in and day out, I personally gauge how well our economy's doing by my sales....and guess what? It's been doin' fine, baby Didn't realize that the market for velvet paintings was that strong. :o
Just put this up today: Check it out :wink:
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bobd1953
Aug 10, 2005, 10:10 PM
Post #286 of 287
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In reply to: bobd1953 wrote: Quote: Being an artist and art not generally considered being an essential necessity for purposes of living day in and day out, I personally gauge how well our economy's doing by my sales....and guess what? It's been doin' fine, baby Didn't realize that the market for velvet paintings was that strong. Heh...funneeeee, bob Just put this up today: Check it out
Nice stuff.
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hangerlessbolt
Aug 10, 2005, 10:13 PM
Post #287 of 287
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Registered: Dec 2, 2001
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Nice work PTC
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