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veganboyjosh
Aug 18, 2005, 8:00 PM
Post #101 of 169
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funny picture aside,
joe, you still have yet to pony up and explain your moderator interfering post...
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microbarn
Aug 18, 2005, 8:40 PM
Post #102 of 169
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I say less control by mods and more freedom.
Next you are going to take away the ability to edit posts. This seems even more of a problem. At this point, he could just go edit his first statement and it never existed. :) I have been more bothered by that then by the titles changing.
Dan
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squish
Aug 18, 2005, 9:16 PM
Post #103 of 169
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In reply to: Thread titles should be editable, for all the reasons veganboyjosh mentioned. Personally, I don't care if someone regrets their thread and wants to hide it, go ahead and let them. The ability to get rid of stupid/misspelled/unclear titles far outweighs any negatives.
True enough.
See, when I post a new topic I put a little thought into its title since that's the first and most memorable part that everyone sees and how they identify it when following up. It should be specific enough to just hold the topic.
That's not necessarily the case with how everyone writes their titles...
What about thoughtless, ambiguous and uninformative titles like:
Advice
Help
Question
Beta
Stuck
What do you think of...
What is...
Climbing
If we don't let authors fix their own titles the mods will have a lot of work doing it for them. So, it might well be better to let the users make their own changes. So far it hasn't been hard tracking down sneaky threads, and if something is worth tracking down, it can be done.
I also don't mind the idea of paying members having extra privileges—putting money where your mouth is, and all that... However, that wouldn't stop someone like madrock who could just as easily buy a "corporate membership" to do as he pleases...
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golsen
Aug 18, 2005, 9:42 PM
Post #104 of 169
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In reply to: I wonder if Joe realizes that probably 90% of the damage he's done to his company in the last day or so would be fixed by a simple admission of guilt and an apology.
I think joe is lookin into makin ballet shoes after finding out how effed up climbers are....this is truly the most pathetic thread I have ever read....KARMA thanks man you hit it head on...
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skinnyclimber
Aug 18, 2005, 9:44 PM
Post #105 of 169
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In reply to: I say less control by mods and more freedom. Next you are going to take away the ability to edit posts. This seems even more of a problem. At this point, he could just go edit his first statement and it never existed. :) I have been more bothered by that then by the titles changing. Dan
You are right that someone could erase their post. BUT someone else has already quoted his original remark (thanks climbsomething) and he can't change that. This is good. RC.com users aren't letting him sneak off that quickly.
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veganboyjosh
Aug 18, 2005, 9:58 PM
Post #106 of 169
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In reply to: In reply to: I wonder if Joe realizes that probably 90% of the damage he's done to his company in the last day or so would be fixed by a simple admission of guilt and an apology. I think joe is lookin into makin ballet shoes after finding out how effed up climbers are....this is truly the most pathetic thread I have ever read....KARMA thanks man you hit it head on...
oooh. is it too late t get in on the hot shoe naming action?
i submit...."the mad rock ballerina"
oh wait, it was rubber naming, wasn't it. damn.
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squierbypetzl
Moderator
Aug 18, 2005, 10:03 PM
Post #107 of 169
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In reply to: madrock wrote: I edited the thread due to interference by the Moderators. Joe Garland
Man, for your sake, I honestly hope that´s true.
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squierbypetzl
Moderator
Aug 18, 2005, 10:08 PM
Post #108 of 169
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In reply to: squierbypetzl wrote: Well, my onsight level is/was (literally) 1 move away from 5..11a, but I don´t care if you climb 5.6´s or 5.13´s.
IT´S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO MAKE FUN OF A COSTUMER!!!In reply to: curt wrote: Exactly. Anybody dressed-up funny may go off--if you offend him. Curt
Yeah, I set myself up for that one...
Friggin´ hilarious though :D ; nice shot.
*said while adjusting leather britches and tang colored full body spandex suit*
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 18, 2005, 10:26 PM
Post #109 of 169
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In reply to: I say less control by mods and more freedom.
This is our policy and will continue to be our policy as it has proved its worth by the fact that the site is virtually moderated by you the users. The effort is put in by the grassroots level of the site. This means that the mods and eds can concentrate on providing better services instead of running around changing diapers for all the whiners.
In reply to: Next you are going to take away the ability to edit posts. This seems even more of a problem. At this point, he could just go edit his first statement and it never existed. :) I have been more bothered by that then by the titles changing. Dan
Go back and read tims post. You will find that we have in place hard written code that ensures that no mod or admin can ever edit your posts. The only person that can edit your post is yourself. This policy is now paying dividends as evidenced in this latest squabble.
Here we have a user who has made an accusation and inference that a moderator has interfered in a post. This is patently untrue as none of the staff can edit a post. Your posts are yours and yours alone to do with as you please. Note though that as soon as you post up those words someone may quote your words and immortalise your folly for all time.
I should also state here that the mods and admins do have the ability to delete posts but this is usually done only in extreme circumstances like spam, porn and double posts. It would be entirely out of order for any member of the staff to delete a post if they simply disagreed with the content or if they were on the losing side of an argument. If this were the case then that mod would not be a mod for very long. We take very seriously any action like that and would most definitely act to rectify the situation if that were the case.
So we are back to asking madrock just what interference are we talking about here from the moderators. Do feel free to contact me either in this thread, via PM or email. Note though that it would be entirely in order for me to report back here any findings.
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ambler
Aug 18, 2005, 11:17 PM
Post #110 of 169
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Funny, funny thread. It seems like half the posters are scratching their heads saying "What?"
I nearly bought Madrocks last year, but at almost twice the price Anasazis fit me better, and were for sure the right choice.
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jammer
Aug 19, 2005, 1:46 AM
Post #111 of 169
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Just to pay us back, if the rubber turns out to be shit like the majority thinks, the new rubber will be called RCRubber :shock:
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jammer
Aug 19, 2005, 2:16 AM
Post #113 of 169
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In reply to: In reply to: Just to pay us back, if the rubber turns out to be s--- like the majority thinks, the new rubber will be called RCRubber :shock: you mean n00ber. Or maybe that should be n00b3r. "If You Don't Climb 5.12, You Won't Notice The Difference Anyways!"
If that's the qualifacations to purchase their shoes, wonder how many he'll sell this year? I know I'll never meet their demands. :lol:
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squierbypetzl
Moderator
Aug 19, 2005, 3:11 AM
Post #114 of 169
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Tim told madrock:
In reply to: How hard do you climb?
I have nothing more to say.
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jamescuth
Aug 19, 2005, 4:10 AM
Post #115 of 169
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Reading through this thread, it seems pretty clear that the current policies work well. Users hold each other accountable for their comments, allowing moderators to take a back seat in the process. madrock made a series of stupid decisions, and no amount of editing, blame-shifting or thread renaming can save him from his words.
The mods here seem to just work in the background, and that's important. user self accountability wouldn't exist if you couldn't trust that every word in someone's post was their own, unedited by another party. the self-policing culture/policy is what makes this forum what it is. it's the reason no one bought the 'mods interfered with my post' line, and is very important to the vibrancy/legitimacy of the forum. I think comments like that need to be able to be viewed with justifiable skepticism for a forum to be worth participating in.
Philbox said there hasn't been a problem with topic name changes up 'til now, but I'm not sure if there even is a problem. the only negative aspect of editable titles is that people can try to mislead/hide/avoid threads and the consequences of what they say. and this thread seems to show that there's pretty much bugger all chance of pulling that off. By the way, Philbox has handled this very well, I think, considering that the mods were dragged into it as fall-guys.
Users here are given plenty of rope, and madrock chose to string himself up pretty good. but that doesn't mean policies need to change. rather, i think this confirms that the current system works, and works well.
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veganboyjosh
Aug 19, 2005, 4:17 AM
Post #116 of 169
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Registered: Dec 22, 2003
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In reply to: Philbox said there hasn't been a problem with topic name changes up 'til now, but I'm not sure if there is even a problem. the only 'bad' side of editable titles is that people can try to mislead/hide/avoid threads and the consequences of what they say. and this thread shows that there's pretty much bugger all chance of pulling that off. Users here are given plenty of rope, and madrock chose to string himself up pretty good. but that doesn't mean policies need to change. rather, i think this confirms that the current system works, and works well.
well said. what problem is there? dude made an ass of himself? and continued to make it worse for himself when called on his shit? whose fault is that?
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 19, 2005, 4:29 AM
Post #117 of 169
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I`m treating this thread like a feedback survey.
Survey says.........Status quo remains.
Thanks all for the brilliant feedback. Yes we would like it if you guys never see the work that the mods do. My goal has been to steadily up the ante for work that goes on unnoticed in the background, hence the what`s new forum to alert the users to new and interesting tools for you to play with. The code guys squirrel away with little recognition except when things go bad and then we all scream at them. Such is the life of these code gnomes. Bless their hearts.
You`re right there is not a problem that I can see that needs fixing but we do definitely need to know that things are sweet and humming along just the way you`d wish them to.
If there is ever a problem then feel free to use the suggestions and questions forum. Any post to that forum is jumped on quite soon after it is posted by one of the management team and more than likely by the code guys. We do like to hear what is both right and wrong with the site and suggestions to make it better. Yes we are working on many improvements all the time and that will continue.
Phil Box for rc.com management.
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ookami
Aug 19, 2005, 5:47 AM
Post #118 of 169
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Registered: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 28
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Funny, after reading the thread that mad pad I was going to buy suddenly went to hell. :p
I say someone should open another thread with a summary. Links to original posts by mad rock and account of the changes.
Gotta love the situation. Lets you see the real face behind some corps.
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saskclimber
Aug 19, 2005, 5:56 AM
Post #119 of 169
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Registered: May 23, 2004
Posts: 548
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when I was thinking about buying a mad pad, I couldn't get it in canada :?
ps..This post made me a "honemaster" as well....whatever that is...
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reno
Aug 19, 2005, 7:54 AM
Post #120 of 169
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Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
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Wow.
A guy runs off to Wyoming for a week to crank on some alpine granite, and see what he missed.
FWIW, I bought a pair of MR Phoenix shoes in Sept. 04. They lasted until April 05, climbing a grand total of MAYBE 50 days (this was ice season, mind you, so rock was a secondary objective.)
Hadn't planned on buying another pair, but now I have a second reason to be dissatisfied.
Too bad, really. The price was nice. For twice the money, though, I can buy a pair of Mythos that will last three times as long. Or more.
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microbarn
Aug 19, 2005, 12:41 PM
Post #121 of 169
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In reply to: In reply to: I say less control by mods and more freedom. This is our policy and will continue to be our policy .... (read the rest of his good explanation above)
I would like to add the following for clarification:
I realize this is how things are being run, and I think it is going great. Don't change anything.
You already made a post to this effect. So, maybe this is a moot point. Anyways, I didn't mean to imply mods are too restrictive now. I just disagree with being more restrictive in this case. Others have already outlined reasons for this, and I agree with them. I was making the post strickly to provide the feedback you asked for earlier. Sorry if there was any confusion. I think you guys do a good job.
Dan
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shank
Aug 19, 2005, 2:32 PM
Post #122 of 169
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Registered: May 14, 2002
Posts: 541
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I think you should call the rubber MadPollo.
Yeah and your new slogan could be "Tastes Like Chicken"
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roambb1
Aug 19, 2005, 3:13 PM
Post #123 of 169
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Registered: Oct 22, 2004
Posts: 74
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1) Mad Rock Shoes: People who hate: for example: you are buying a pair of $60 shoes(Flash), that are "comprable" to $150 shoes (Anasazi). You get what you pay for. I happen to like the Flash, and the Mugen, and have bought about four pairs of Mad Rock shoes in two years. Yes, they are cheap, and the rubber is not as durable as 5.10 of LaSportiva. But, I almost get two pairs for the price of one. I am well aware that the shoes will wear quickly. But, the rubber is sticky, the shoes perform to my liking, and I don't mind replacing them every 6 months or so. Logic says that there is a reason that these shoes cost half as much as another brand. To buy a cheaper brand, and then bitch about quality (while comparing them to another brand) is rediculous. Its like saying that Kia sucks because it doesn't perform like a Lexus.
2.) Why Hate Mad Rock? It is not the owner, or the employees (especially the laborers in Asia...) who have erred. It is a jackass rep. I am sure that management of Mad Rock would like to know what has transpired on this site. Let them know, and give them the chance to remedy the problem. We are not dealing with a "authoritarian i.e. president" who will not apologize, MadRock is an employee, so before you scream boycott, give management a chance to correct the problem.
3.) Madrock... Why not just apologize. What you said was not even a big deal until all of this cover-up crap began. You could possibly lose your job because you couldn't make a simple apology. It is called humility. Take responsibility for your actions. The pain of that is a lot easier than the pain that will come from trying to cover up and play the blame game.
4.) Peace to all
BB
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couchwarrior
Aug 19, 2005, 3:18 PM
Post #124 of 169
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Registered: Sep 1, 2004
Posts: 190
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I have never worn a pair of Mad Rock shoes in my life. In fact, I don't even know if I've ever seen a pair. They sound like a pricepoint kind of shoe that apparently behaves like a pricepoint kind of shoe, so I'll probably stay away from them.
What I do find interesting is the people in this thread that were wounded by the OPs "insulting" someone's climbing ability. Near as I can tell, he made fun of someone's footwork. Not their mother or their ethnic heritage or their son who was killed in Iraq. Their climbing footwork! On a website where people are always telling everyone else to STFU and flaming over inconsequential gibberish, it seems rather silly to suddenly develop such thin skin.
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veganboyjosh
Aug 19, 2005, 3:43 PM
Post #125 of 169
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Registered: Dec 22, 2003
Posts: 1421
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In reply to: 2.) Why Hate Mad Rock? It is not the owner, or the employees (especially the laborers in Asia...) who have erred. It is a jackass rep. I am sure that management of Mad Rock would like to know what has transpired on this site. Let them know, and give them the chance to remedy the problem. We are not dealing with a "authoritarian i.e. president" who will not apologize, MadRock is an employee, so before you scream boycott, give management a chance to correct the problem.
it's not just a random rogue employee. it's their marketing director. dude gets paid to represent the company. there's a difference. he/she's authorized by the company to represent them, and any dealings he/she has with the public as said representative are the same as if the company was making them/doing them. random warehouse employee who does similar things(insults customers, tries to hide behind renamed threads, denials, etc) shouldn't necessarily be held to the same degree of responsibility. and until someone from the company steps up to apologize for some rather shitty doings (granted, in the grand scheme of things, how bad is insulting someone, or covering your tracks when you goofed and are embarrassed by it?) of their marketing director, their reputation will suffer as a result.
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