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bloodyhands


Jan 11, 2006, 10:45 PM
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Sometimes when I've climbed high it elevated my sense of awareness. The sacred herb helped me to feel the flow of the rock and become one with it. It set a rhythm to my moves.

But I used to have the habit of having to get stone stupid every time I smoked, and when I'm that high I cant concentrate on the moves. My confidence is shot, and my fear of falling, elevated. I end up pussin' out on most any sport climb (even a 5.9).

Nowadays I rarely ever climb high (when I do, I only take a few hits), but have no problem with my belayer being stoned... as long as they assure me they're solid. I trust my partner's word, blazed or not.

To each his own.


paganmonkeyboy


Jan 11, 2006, 10:48 PM
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At the Gunks this fall, a bunch of boulderers were smoking up right on the trail in front of the section with Horseman. There were families on the trail, walking along, enjoying the nice day, and they had to walk by that sh!t. I do not make decisions for others nor do I try to tell others what is right or wrong in my eyes, but I got frustrated when a family with a young child walked by the boulderers. A little better judgement, maybe they didn't have any to begin with - they were bouldering.
Would you have been equally offended if they were smoking cigarettes or drinking beer? Is it OK for kids to see those activities but not smoking pot?

Yes. There is a legal/illegal context that a little child will not have the depth of experience to fully understand and place. I smoke. I do NOT smoke in front of children or those that would easily be offended if I am in public.

If I am on the top of a peak, ten miles in, and there is someone else there, I will usually ask or warn...but if someone is there with the kids - No. Not fair, not right, not good...


stymingersfink


Jan 11, 2006, 10:55 PM
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as a twelve-year (+) consumer in my early 30's who has recently been mandated to stop a 1.5-2g/day choice (not habit) i will have to say this...

climbing ice sans ganj is pretty fucked up, dood. i can't believe i got into this insanity in the first place.

what gets to me the most is when my belayer/partners try to pass me the J, knowing full well that I must abstain. ...that REALLY frosts my ass! Thinking about how nice that first toke is going to do me when this little bit of shit I'm in is over... YEEOOOOWZA!
now can we please talk about something else....? ...please?


porcelainsunset


Jan 11, 2006, 11:16 PM
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Personally, I dont smoke any more because I chose not to. I only smoked once while climbing, and that was at the top of monkey face before raping. Anyway, I prefer to drink while climbing now. A beer fits better in the chalk bag than a piece dose. I only do it on sport routes that I know well. Only fallen doing it once while on lead, partially because I was in fact drunk, and also because it happened to be a little past midnight. (Yes it is true, durnk and stoned climbers only come out at night :D )

However, I agree that it is not the most wise thing to do while climbing, but hell, we are all already on the dark side anyway right? To each his own. If my second smokes so much that they fuction better while stoned, then I am fine with it, as long as they can assure me that they are good. It makes me a little more cautious. What i dont understand is how the hell these susposed 'lazy' climbers can still show my ass up while baked out of their minds? Who knows.


crimpstrength


Jan 11, 2006, 11:31 PM
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Jred,

I just think doing something ILLEGAL in front of families isn't right. Was it my place to tell the boulderers that they were, um, not being considerate, I do not know. As I walked away, I knew I should have. If I was any more angry I would have. I hate fights, this one would have been worth starting though. I do not care what you do on your own, when it involves yound people, I think it is wrong. If they were on the upper trail by the wall, with no one around, fine; anywhere but in such a populated area. It is just inconsiderate, and it is going to get the rest of us in trouble.


bloodyhands


Jan 11, 2006, 11:41 PM
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Right on Taylor, except there are certain indigenous species of stoners found in the the Chattanooga area, that are non-nocturnal.

And as for smoking in front of kids... NOT cool.


caughtinside


Jan 11, 2006, 11:55 PM
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I only smoked once while climbing, and that was at the top of monkey face before raping.

So the reefer madness is real!


pmyche


Jan 12, 2006, 12:04 AM
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http://www.ousleycreative.com/bringmesome.jpg


sofakingcool


Jan 12, 2006, 12:48 AM
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Accidental double post , read the next 1 reply down .


stzzo


Jan 12, 2006, 12:58 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I suppose I'd start with something along the lines of measuring reaction times, brainwaves, levels of alertness, peripheral vision; practical skills tests that measure speed & thoroughness in completing certain tasks; psychological evaluations to determine emotional reactions to given situations; interviews with personal acquaintances to get a more objective opinion of performance & behavior while under the influence. s--- like that...

Nah, skip all that and just measure the number and difficulty of FA's they've put up stoned or tripping and you'll have it in a nutshell...
And side-step the actual question of whether or not they are as safe when stoned as when not. ;) A large quantity of successful drunken high-speed maneuvers does not imply that the driver is as safe and capable while drunk as while sober.

While you're counting number and difficulty of first ascents, count and analyze responses to emergency situations, the appropriateness and timeliness of critical judgment calls, etc, and compare all this to their performance under the same conditions while completely sober (completely as in, haven't used in a long-enough time that all the residual drug and effects and withdrawal symptoms are gone).

For the argument:

In reply to:
Pharmacodynamics: THC binds to cannabinoid receptors and interferes with important endogenous cannabinoid neurotransmitter systems. Receptor distribution correlates with brain areas involved in physiological, psychomotor and cognitive effects. Correspondingly, THC produces alterations in motor behavior, perception, cognition, memory, learning, endocrine function, food intake, and regulation of body temperature. http://(http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm)

In reply to:
THC in single inhaled doses up to 300 mcg /kg has significant, yet not dramatic, dose-related impairing effects on driving performance. Standard deviation of lateral position in the road tracking test was the most sensitive measure for revealing THC's adverse effects. This is because road tracking is primarily controlled by an automatic information processing system which operates outside of conscious control. The process is relatively impervious to environmental changes but highly vulnerable to internal factors that retard the flow if information through the system. THC and many other drugs are among these factors. When they interfere with the process that restricts SDLP, there is little the afflicted individual can do by way of compensation to restore the situation. http://(http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/mjdrive.htm)

In reply to:
Solowij et al (1991; 1992; 1993) conducted a series of studies of the effects of long-term cannabis use on specific stages of information processing. In keeping with Miller and Branconnier's hypothesis, Solowij et al assessed the integrity of attentional processes in long-term cannabis users using a combination of performance and brain event-related potential measures. Event-related potential (ERP) measures are sensitive markers of covert cognitive processes underlying overt behaviour; the amplitude and latency of various ERP components have been shown to reflect various stages of information processing.

Solowij et al, (1991) studied a small and heterogeneous group of long-term cannabis users (N=9), aged 19-40, who had used cannabis for a mean of 11.2 years at the level of 4.8 days per week. The cannabis users were matched on age, sex, years of education and alcohol consumption with nine non-user controls who had either never used or had limited experience with cannabis (maximum use 15 times). Strict exclusion criteria were applied to any subjects with a history of head injury, neurological or psychiatric illness, significant use of other drugs, or high levels of alcohol consumption. The groups did not differ in premorbid IQ, as estimated by the NART score (Nelson, 1984).

Subjects were instructed to abstain from cannabis and alcohol for 24 hours prior to testing and two urine samples were analysed to ensure that subjects were not acutely intoxicated at the time of testing. Subjects completed a multidimensional auditory selective attention task in which random sequences of tones varying in location, pitch and duration were delivered through headphones while brain electrical activity (EEG) was recorded. They were instructed to attend to a particular ear and a particular pitch, and to respond to the long duration tones with a button press. This procedure enabled an examination of the brain's response to attended and unattended tones.

Cannabis users performed significantly more poorly than controls, with fewer correct detections, more errors and slightly longer reaction times. Analysis of the ERP measures showed that cannabis users had reduced P300 amplitudes compared to controls, reflecting dysfunction in the allocation of attentional resources and stimulus evaluation strategies. Further, cannabis users showed an inability to filter out irrelevant information, while controls were able to reject this irrelevant information from further processing at an early stage. These results suggested that long-term cannabis use impairs the ability to efficiently process complex information.

Solowij et al (1992; 1993) conducted a second study with a larger sample to examine the relationships between degree of impairment and the frequency and duration of use. Thirty-two cannabis users recruited from the general community were split into four groups of equal size (N=8) defined by frequency (light: ó twice/week vs heavy: ò three times/week) and duration (short: 3-4 years vs long: ò five years) of cannabis use. The mean number of years of use for the long duration users was 10.1, and 3.3 for short duration users (range three to 28 years). The mean frequency of use was 18 days per month for the heavy group and six for the light group (range: once/month to daily use). Subjects were matched to a group of non-user controls (N=16) as in the first study, and a similar methodology was employed.

Once again cannabis users performed worse than the controls, with the greatest impairment observed in the heavy user group, thereby replicating the earlier ERP findings. In addition, different cognitive processes were differentially affected by frequency and duration of cannabis use. The long duration user group showed significantly larger processing negativity to irrelevant stimuli than did short duration users and controls, who did not differ from each other. There were no differences between groups defined on frequency of use. A significant correlation between the ERP measure and duration of cannabis use indicated that the ability to focus attention and filter out irrelevant information was progressively impaired with the number of years of use, but was unrelated to frequency of use. Frequency of use affected the speed of information processing, as reflected in a delayed P300 latency in the heavy user group compared to light users and controls. There was a significant correlation between P300 latency and increasing frequency of use, while this measure was unrelated to duration of use. http://(http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/Content/health-pubs-drug-cannab2-ch74.htm)

In reply to:
Choice reaction time tasks, in which the response is conditional not only upon the occurrence of a stimulus, but also the presence of some other discriminant (such as the pitch of a tone or the colour of a visual stimulus), have been administered to determine the effect of cannabis. In a number of these studies, reaction time was indeed slower after cannabis use (Borg et al, 1975; Block & Wittenborn, 1984; 1986), although there were some studies which found no change ...

Concurrent tasks. Most concurrent task studies use one task which requires almost continuous attention, typically tracking, and one in which significant stimuli occur sporadically, often within a larger number of non-significant stimuli. The tasks are often referred to as the central and peripheral tasks respectively. The performance of concurrent tasks is almost always affected negatively by cannabis, although the effects on the component tasks are not consistent. http://(http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/Content/health-pubs-drug-cannab2-ch54.htm)

The last is from a report by the Australian Gov't that analyses the findings of the various studies and their pitfalls.

There are also plenty of inconclusive studies, and a few in which the user group performed better on some tests. But it's the type of tests and the methods of evaluation that still suggest that pot impairs function sufficiently and in critical manner to compromise most people's ability to climb safely.

[edit to correct spelling]


sofakingcool


Jan 12, 2006, 12:58 AM
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I'm not condoning smoking in front of children , but your argument that it should not be done in front of kids because it is illegal , may be wrong . I'm not sure of the laws in your area , but in California many people are prescribed marijuana for various medical purposes . I'd estimate that at least 50% of the people I know who smoke regularly , have prescriptions and obtain and smoke weed exclusively purchased legally at local cannabis clubs . Would you think bad of someone for taking a prescribed pill for anxiety in front of a child ? I doubt it . So when it comes down to it , how is weed different ? All medications can be used appropriately , and inappropriately . Once again , I'm not saying you should smoke pot in front of kids , I'm just playing devils advocate .


crimpstrength


Jan 12, 2006, 12:59 AM
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So cool,

Prescription medicine is a different story. Taking prescription medicine is fine. Abusing prescription medicine is not. Explaining to children the difference is what that is about. Little kids wandering around the Trapps with their parents idolizing these boulderers also see them smoking something and what is the message there? A child may see a parent take a prescription drug. A child who sees a parent abuse a prescription drug and not know what is or why is another matter.


sofakingcool


Jan 12, 2006, 1:15 AM
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I agree , CrimpStrength .

I have a 3 year old daughter , and I would never let her be exposed to marijuana .I just wanted to point out that many people do smoke legally . When arguing the case of smoking pot with people who are against it , that is what they always fall back on , the legality issue . If marijuana ever becomes fully legal in the USA , it will be interesting to hear how people will argue against it .When compared with alcohol , its hard to justify it being illegal IMHO . And just to keep my post on topic , I would worry about being belayed by someone who was truly STONED . One or two hits to relax a little , thats debatable .


dangle


Jan 12, 2006, 10:20 PM
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Glad you pointed out the gray area.

Its possible to have a beer with a meal and still drive safely. I don't climb while baked, but a few tokes is another thing.
After 30+ years of wall soloing if it was significantly less safe I would be significantly more dead.


Partner blonde_loves_bolts


Jan 13, 2006, 1:09 AM
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I agree , CrimpStrength .

I have a 3 year old daughter , and I would never let her be exposed to marijuana .I just wanted to point out that many people do smoke legally . When arguing the case of smoking pot with people who are against it , that is what they always fall back on , the legality issue . If marijuana ever becomes fully legal in the USA , it will be interesting to hear how people will argue against it .When compared with alcohol , its hard to justify it being illegal IMHO . And just to keep my post on topic , I would worry about being belayed by someone who was truly STONED . One or two hits to relax a little , thats debatable .

Marijuana is technically not legal anywhere. Federal statutes override any contradictory state laws, as evidenced by recent raids on some California cannibus clubs. Legal at the state level, but not at the federal level.


mcfoley


Jan 13, 2006, 3:47 PM
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I agree , CrimpStrength .

I have a 3 year old daughter , and I would never let her be exposed to marijuana .I just wanted to point out that many people do smoke legally . When arguing the case of smoking pot with people who are against it , that is what they always fall back on , the legality issue . If marijuana ever becomes fully legal in the USA , it will be interesting to hear how people will argue against it .When compared with alcohol , its hard to justify it being illegal IMHO . And just to keep my post on topic , I would worry about being belayed by someone who was truly STONED . One or two hits to relax a little , thats debatable .

Marijuana is technically not legal anywhere. Federal statutes override any contradictory state laws, as evidenced by recent raids on some California cannibus clubs. Legal at the state level, but not at the federal level.

Yeah it's funny how the some politicians push for "states rights" on so many issues... except for WEED.

Since we started fighting the "WAR ON TERROR", are we still fighting the "WAR ON DRUGS"?
Or is the it more of a "skirmish on drugs" now?


kyote321


Jan 13, 2006, 4:40 PM
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i don't think this post is a troll, i think it is important to discuss

a couple of points:

all weed is not the same, some types get you 'high' others 'stoned' this is a very important distinction when discussing climbing under the influence. in my experience being high can be be an enhancement, esp when tired, 2nd third day on, etc. being stoned is often not beneficial, but can aide in recovery, and dealing with long hours on the road or out in the desert somewhere waiting for 10am the next day from 5 pm the day before with a partner that needs a shave a bath.

smoking in front of kids is a bad plan. they don't have a context for what you are doing and can confuse them. i do, however, feel that if you smoke and kids are regularly around, it is better to broach the subject earlier than later. i have seen kids time and time again in 'hippie' households get bitter becasue their parents smoked and never talked to them about it openly and honestly.

personally, i try not to always smoke high. i try to make it a choice. otherwise, i find i get state-dependant and i don't want to be that way. now, caffine on the other had...


rastafari


Jan 13, 2006, 5:13 PM
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Being stoned and high is the same fucking shit. When you smoke a spliff you're high aka stoned and if you smoke more you're either more stoned or more high. Maybe you should sort out the terms in your head or smoke more.


dingus


Jan 13, 2006, 6:16 PM
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Being stoned and high is the same f---ing s---. When you smoke a spliff you're high aka stoned and if you smoke more you're either more stoned or more high. Maybe you should sort out the terms in your head or smoke more.

I would spect a Rasta dude to know this stuff! Maybe you should take your own advice? Pasted from some google search, for your edification. This is what the other dude was referring too, well known amongst the chronic crowd...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


The Differences between Indica and Sativa Cannabis plants:

Fat Leaves and Short Bush = INDICA
Thin Leaves and Tall Bush = SATIVA

Indica....higher CBD than THC equals heavier, sleepy type of high. Yield is usually higher than Sativa, and shorter growing season. Better for indoor growing, because they don't get as tall.

Sativa....higher THC than CBD equals cerebral, soaring type of high, more energetic Yield is usually lower than Indica, but is very potent. eg: Thai Sativa grow taller and have a longer flowering period, so they are better suited for outdoors.

Sativa's typically take longer to germinate and flower, and they grow more gangly then indica breeds.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

DMT


healyje


Jan 13, 2006, 6:30 PM
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Now wouldn't you just know that Dingus would know the difference between a short, stubby fellow with a few fat purple clubs for limbs from a gangly, green willowy bush flowering like a Christmas tree covered with ornaments...


dingus


Jan 13, 2006, 6:37 PM
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(best Bogart - Caine Mutiny/Chevy Chase - Fletch imitation) - Hybrids, its all about hybrids...

Scare ME!

DMT


jred


Jan 13, 2006, 7:00 PM
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At the Gunks this fall, a bunch of boulderers were smoking up right on the trail in front of the section with Horseman. There were families on the trail, walking along, enjoying the nice day, and they had to walk by that sh!t. I do not make decisions for others nor do I try to tell others what is right or wrong in my eyes, but I got frustrated when a family with a young child walked by the boulderers. A little better judgement, maybe they didn't have any to begin with - they were bouldering.
Would you have been equally offended if they were smoking cigarettes or drinking beer? Is it OK for kids to see those activities but not smoking pot?

Yes. There is a legal/illegal context that a little child will not have the depth of experience to fully understand and place. I smoke. I do NOT smoke in front of children or those that would easily be offended if I am in public.

If I am on the top of a peak, ten miles in, and there is someone else there, I will usually ask or warn...but if someone is there with the kids - No. Not fair, not right, not good...
How would a child be able to differentiate a cigarette from a joint? How is it that somebody staggering around "legally" drunk is not as bad as illegally stoned. Children have very limited "depth of experience" in all matters of life, it is the parents job to teach them about life, not some guy on the trails. Personally I am much more concerned about the ridiculous amount of violence a child will see in thier day, what kind of effect is that having?


romperroom


Jan 13, 2006, 7:23 PM
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I am with you on this one jred! What about cigarettes? Just as bad in my opinion. How many of you out there have had a few drinks around the kids? Worse than smoking pot in my opinion.

I have 2 young kids and I am much more worried about the amount of LEGAL "violent material" affecting them negatively.


cosmiccragsman


Jan 13, 2006, 7:42 PM
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Roll , roll, roll a joint,
gently take a hit.
Marijuanas' what I need,
to get me up the cliff... :D


katalyzt


Jan 13, 2006, 7:52 PM
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I agree with dingus. There is a difference between stoned and high. Being a consumer at least once a day for the past year and a half (I recently quit for personal reasons. Yay for me.) I can atest to the fact that there are many types of "highs" you can get. But they can all be broken down to those two categories.

More on topic... I would not want a stoned person as my belayer. However, somebody who has much experience with the ganga I would not mind having a couple tokes. But getting blazed before the climb sounds like a bad idea.

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