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pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
1.If it weren't for guns in the hands of citizens, there would be NO United States.
That makes me all tingly inside.
VIVA LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS!!
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jmlangford
Aug 23, 2002, 3:46 PM
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Quote:A sudy of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides (Kellermann et al, 1998).
This is a misleading stat...they don't tell you about the 2 million+ timese every year that the mere presence of a gun thwarts crime without the gun even being fired. They also don't tell you that the criminal assaults or homicides were committed 99+% of the time by people already PROHIBITED from possessing firearms. Once again proving that bad guys will ALWAYS have guns.
Also, you can't blame the gun for the suicides. What do you think the people did...see a gun sitting there and decide "Hey, I think I'll pick that up and kill myself!"? No, the suicide victim had a tormented life and they were going to kill themselves no matter what. If the gun wasn't available they would find another way to do it.
Good debate! Thanks dominator, I'm just geting started!
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fiend
Aug 23, 2002, 3:46 PM
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Yes, I agree with all of you. Teach children to shoot and kill at an early age. If kids were allowed to have guns in schools then those Columbine kids would have had their asses handed to them right off the bat. Teachers should have guns too so they can shoot kids if they look like they might be about to cause trouble. And vice versa, kids can shoot teachers if they don't treat the students fairly. I'm sure the Columbine kids had a god reason to do what they did.
We should also be allowed to have guns in case the police ever try to arrest us or the government gets out of hand. I mean, what would I do if the government tried to control me? What would I do if they tried to tax the hell out of me?
Charlton Heston is my president.
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wigglestick
Aug 23, 2002, 4:04 PM
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I think auto accidents are the leading cause of unnatural deaths for children.
Quote:This is a misleading stat...
Aren't they all?
Quote:
they don't tell you about the 2 million+ timese every year that the mere presence of a gun thwarts crime without the gun even being fired.
They also don't tell you how many times a baseball bat would accomplish the same thing. But nobody ever died while cleaning their baseball bat. And baseball bats don't richocet and kill children who are sitting at home watching cartoons.
The fact is that a majority of people do not have the education and mental maturity to handle the responsibility of owning a gun. I have no problem with responsible gun owners. I wish there were more of them.
Good one fiend.
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climbchick
Aug 23, 2002, 4:05 PM
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In reply to: "The US Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey has shown for decades that resistance with a gun is by far the safest course of action when one is confronted by a criminal,'' writes John Lott Jr., a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and author of ''More Guns, Less Crime.'' It is especially so for women. ''The probability of serious injury from a criminal confrontation is 2.5 times greater for women offering no resistance than resisting with a gun.'' Lott analyzed 18 years of crime data from every US county. With each additional person carrying a handgun, he found, murder rates declined. But when that additional person is female, the drop in murder rates is 3 to 4 times greater than when it is a man." [END] That came from the Boston Globe. I think statistics can usually be twisted & presented any way you like. It's common sense that a burglar/rapist/murderer is going to think twice if it's possible that his potential victim might have a gun. Burglaries that occur while people are at home are less common in this country than in places like England for that reason.
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pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 4:07 PM
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Quote:
The fact is that a majority of people do not have the education and mental maturity to handle the responsibility of owning a gun.
I guess we should start banning pregnancy also. And guess how we ban pregnancy. You guessed it, ban sex.
NO SEX FOR YOU!
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jmlangford
Aug 23, 2002, 4:11 PM
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The fact is that a majority of people do not have the education and mental maturity to handle the responsibility of owning a gun. I have no problem with responsible gun owners.
So who decides this...a tyrannical government?
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wigglestick
Aug 23, 2002, 4:13 PM
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Ah, Pianomahn. If we could dictate who could breed and who couldn't we would solve so many problems wouldn't we?
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climbchick
Aug 23, 2002, 4:17 PM
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Well, if we let the government take away our guns, we wouldn't be able to shoot them when they start trying to forcibly sterilize us . . . . .
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phillycheese
Aug 23, 2002, 4:33 PM
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did you all know that 76% of all statistics are made up on the spot?? (or was it 74%)
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dominator
Aug 23, 2002, 4:42 PM
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Good debate. I had no idea there were this many different opinions on this subject. I think I kind of lean towards no gun control laws as they don't seem to have worked so far.
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pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 4:55 PM
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Because they don't work (in what regards) you don't want them?
Hmmmm...
Laws against speeding don't work. Get rid of those.
Laws against murder don't work, get rid of those.
Laws against this or that don't work, get rid of those.
You should have more of a reason to have or not have laws than wether or not they work.
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blacksamba
Aug 23, 2002, 4:57 PM
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Man I'm so glad I live in Alaska where they give a .22 to all kindergarteners!
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punk
Aug 23, 2002, 5:09 PM
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Ill say Get ALL THE FIRE POWER U CAN GET u never know when u need it to defend yourself…HUMMMM thinking of it U should eliminate, the Jews, Muslims, those oriental ppl and of curse blacks. Now, should shoot all handicap, mental illness and opinionated ppl too then u got to protect yourself from, carnivore animals, and someone else's that carry a gun then u will be safe to NOT USE YOUR GUN… but wait a minute u alone....
Anarchy RULE
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climbchick
Aug 23, 2002, 5:09 PM
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yeah, I really hate it when those Jews and carnivore animals keep trying to carjack me . . . but the opiniated people are the worst, I think I'll hunt them all down next time it's too hot to climb
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pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 5:32 PM
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Be sure to shoot yourself first.
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punk
Aug 23, 2002, 5:38 PM
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What's the difference
U alone anyway whether in the grave or above grave
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jeffe
Aug 23, 2002, 5:43 PM
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It amazes me how the "gun" is the blame. Gun control advocates never mention the number of violent crimes committed with other tools, such as the threat of force alone, hands, knives, pipes, etc.. They shift the blame to the tool. Why can't people hold people accountable for there actions. Not their tool of choice. Did you ever hear of a movement to ban Ginsu kitchen knives. After all I'm sure many victims of domestic violence would be alive had it not been for these henous instruments of violence.
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punk
Aug 23, 2002, 5:56 PM
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"Guns don’t kill ppl, ppl kill ppl"
Its such a cliché …but when u think of it…what was the purpose that the gun was invented…to the best of my knowledge it wasn't for Hunting or human kind matter
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coach
Aug 23, 2002, 8:47 PM
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This is one of those topics that always draw out the most ardent supporters of each side that will provide statistics, studies, etc, all of which will never satisfy the other side. I find it interesting that this argument arises so much but rarely see the same vocalization over automobile accidents. Just a few stats; 1999 - 41,717 deaths in 3,236,000 accidents and of those deaths 15,976 were alcohol related. 2000 - 41,821 deaths in 3,189,000 accidents of which 16,653 deaths were accident related. Sounds more like alcohol and cars are doing all the killing. Gun control always becomes a hot topic with the politicians but little is done to enforce the laws we have and pass laws that make sense. If anyone can tell me why my neighbor needs and AK-47 that spews 600 rounds a minute to protect himself while my measly 38 special is sufficient in my home I would like to hear the answer. I see no logical reason that the public needs to be armed better than their own law enforcement agencies.
Climb On
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pianomahnn
Aug 23, 2002, 9:00 PM
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The law enforcement agencies are comparible to the bastard Red Coats.
No more 'splainin' neede.
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robscate
Aug 23, 2002, 9:00 PM
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Gun control laws only affected people who want to own a gun legally. These people are less likely to commit a crime with said gun. Ie they obeyed the gun law, why would they commit a crime with a registered gun under their name.
a couple of startling stories that the media loves to hype that can go both ways.
the guns used at colimbine where purchased illegally.
In la a number of years ago two bank robbers had police outgunned. The police had to raid local sporting good stores to purchased more fire power. The guns the robbers had where purchased illegally.
gun control is another form of overbearing government. Laisse Faire.
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wildtrail
Aug 23, 2002, 9:05 PM
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I think we should have very strict gun control laws.
One, no one needs an "assault weapon". I used to hunt (don't believe in killing things for no reason anymore, but I can't be hippocrytical). I used to collect guns. I enjoyed them, but I never saw the purpose of an assault weapon of any sort.
The NRA is so full of s--- they don't even recognize that they are neck deep in their own fecal debris. Our constitution states we have the "right to bare arms". I believe in this and our country would never take that right away, but the NRA likes to try to make gun owners that they would. NO the wouldn't. Personally, I have no problem with having to "register" guns. What is the big deal? If you own a gun and you are responsible, why is having to register them so bad? It isn't. I would happily register mine (if I still had them).
You get to hear this bullshit "its against our rights to have to register them!" F-you! No it isn't. Unless you are some mass murderer, what is the big deal?
Fact is, if you are repsonsible, own guns, and hunt (or not), a person shouldn't have any problem with that.
So I say rid the market of assault weapons. A single shot rifel or shotgun can kill someone just as easily as an assault rifel/weapon. Handguns are semi-automatic (not all, but many, I used to own four) and that is about as "assault" as the average person should go.
I say Americans should register there firearms. It isn't a big deal. Christ! You go through a background check when you buy one, which should be more extensive and thourough, but you still go through one.
If it helps keep just one gun out of the hands of some useless gangbanger, and one less person dies, it is worth it. At least, I put a good value on human life and I think one life would be worth the once a year inconvenience of a firearm owner filling out a form and mailing it!
Steve
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punk
Aug 23, 2002, 9:05 PM
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Coach,
If u like to put it this way …it’s the means not the end…
Its more like should we allow an instrument made specifically for killing handled freely
Alternatively, should we eliminate the most popular way of transportation…hummmmmmm
As I said it’s the means not the end …
That’s way u call a gun shot a murder and a drunk driver hit an accident
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-08-23 14:06 ]
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wildtrail
Aug 23, 2002, 9:06 PM
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piano,
That, my friend, was an idiotic comment.
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