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cervicornis
May 4, 2006, 3:30 AM
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Is it safe to run a rope through two Fixe bolt hangers and rappel directly off these? I did this the other day and now I am wondering if I should have left a couple of bail biners instead.
Jason
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curt
May 4, 2006, 3:37 AM
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In reply to: Is it safe to run a rope through two Fixe bolt hangers and rappel directly off these? I did this the other day and now I am wondering if I should have left a couple of bail biners instead. Jason
I dunno. Are you dead?
Curt
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sbaclimber
May 4, 2006, 3:38 AM
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In reply to: Is it safe to run a rope through two Fixe bolt hangers and rappel directly off these?
In reply to: I did this the other day and now I am wondering if I should have left a couple of bail biners instead. |
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billcoe_
May 4, 2006, 3:39 AM
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In reply to: I dunno. Are you dead? Curt
Not yet.
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blumsky_climbs_rox
May 4, 2006, 3:39 AM
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it's standard practice at my sport crag
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omegaprime
May 4, 2006, 3:40 AM
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Good one curt :lol:
Question - didn't anyone ever told you not to do it?
If yes - why didn't you listen to them?
If no - where did you get to know of bail biners?
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omegaprime
May 4, 2006, 3:42 AM
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In reply to: it's standard practice at my sport crag
Hmm... good place to open a rope shop, or a funeral home.
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cervicornis
May 4, 2006, 3:46 AM
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My rope got stuck and I had to leave it there, which is why I have been thinking about all this. Ropes are pretty expensive, and I have never heard of a bail rope.
I heard of a bail biner here on this site, actually. Sounds like webbing and some cheap rap rings might be less expensive, or maybe quicklinks. I'll have to do the math.
I examined my rope and it doesn't appear to be damaged, we'll call this a lesson learned...
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cervicornis
May 4, 2006, 3:51 AM
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In reply to: Good one curt :lol: Question - didn't anyone ever told you not to do it? If yes - why didn't you listen to them? If no - where did you get to know of bail biners?
The subject never came up, unfortunately. I've had some training, done a lot of reading, but should probably take a beginner's class that covers the basics.
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marc801
May 4, 2006, 3:54 AM
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Do you mean these Fixe hangers:
http://a1072.g.akamai.net/.../media/605948Prd.jpg
or these:
http://images.rei.com/media/606185Prd.jpg
If it was the top ones, no, if the bottom ones, OK. Only Metolius Rap Hangers are suitable for putting the rope directly through them. However, in a heavily used area, even those should have chains or quick links on them so when they do eventually wear, they are more easily and cheaply replaced.
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omegaprime
May 4, 2006, 3:55 AM
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Good to know you've learned a lesson.
Forget about quicklinks, there's mixed feelings about leaving quicklinks on a route. Use a bail biner, downclimb, downfall, or the Texas Rope Trick.
Use the search function, there's a lot of discussion on bailing, and how to do it.
Edited to add: On second thought, you did good because you had enough common sense to suspect what you did was wrong and tried to find the right way. Would have been better if you've questioned it before you did it though. Live and learn, I guess. :wink:
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cervicornis
May 4, 2006, 4:14 AM
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The top ones...
There was actually a chain connected to one of the hangers. The other end of the chain was dangling free. I thought that was kind of odd.
This was on top of the Thin Wall in Joshua Tree. While I have everyone's attention, here is another question. I used two pieces of webbing to sling a big mushroom of a rock for the TR anchor. I wasn't able to get one of the webbing slings out, and was forced to leave it there. I didn't have a knife (I'll probably carry one from now one). Rather than leave the webbing dangling off the edge of the wall, I chose to unsling as much of the mushroom as possible and hid the webbing on the backside of the rock. I figured someone else might be able to remove the webbing, or cut it off if necessary. The only bad thing is if some other noob comes along and attempts to anchor off the sling, not realizing that it is simply wedged in place and no longer slung around the entire mushroom. Does that make sense?
BTW, the reason I didn't downclimb off the back was due to fast-approaching darkness.
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omegaprime
May 4, 2006, 4:20 AM
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In reply to: There was actually a chain connected to one of the hangers. The other end of the chain was dangling free. I thought that was kind of odd. |
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sbaclimber
May 4, 2006, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: I didn't have a knife (I'll probably carry one from now one).
The free hanging chain was probably the rap anchor. It is not uncommon for many anchors to have 2 bolts, but only one is equipped with a chain or ring for rapping. I am not particularly fond of the setup myself (I would prefer both to have rings/chains), as I like redundancy whenever possible, even on rappel.
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curt
May 4, 2006, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: The top ones... There was actually a chain connected to one of the hangers. The other end of the chain was dangling free. I thought that was kind of odd. This was on top of the Thin Wall in Joshua Tree. While I have everyone's attention, here is another question. I used two pieces of webbing to sling a big mushroom of a rock for the TR anchor. I wasn't able to get one of the webbing slings out, and was forced to leave it there. I didn't have a knife (I'll probably carry one from now one). Rather than leave the webbing dangling off the edge of the wall, I chose to unsling as much of the mushroom as possible and hid the webbing on the backside of the rock. I figured someone else might be able to remove the webbing, or cut it off if necessary. The only bad thing is if some other noob comes along and attempts to anchor off the sling, not realizing that it is simply wedged in place and no longer slung around the entire mushroom. Does that make sense? BTW, the reason I didn't downclimb off the back was due to fast-approaching darkness.
Is there anything you can share with us about that day that you did right?
Curt
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cervicornis
May 4, 2006, 4:50 AM
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In reply to: Is there anything you can share with us about that day that you did right? Curt
As far as climbing goes, maybe not. But I did catch (and release) a lizard while I was in the middle of sending a V4 boulder problem. That was awesome.
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rockguide
May 4, 2006, 4:55 AM
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OK,
Chances are that running the rope through a bolt hanger will not cut it - but it may damage it and defiantly make it tough to retrieve.
Some bolt hangers are made for the rope - Metolius rap hangers, some glue in bolts, the fixe rings. A good general rule is that if it is as thick as your thinnest carabiner, it is thick enough for your rope.
If it is thinner than the thinnest carabiner, it was meant for metal like a quick link or carabiner. You could also build an anchor on webbing tied to the hangers and rap from that (do not lower ... that will kill ya dead).
Better yet, look around. If the station is not made for rappelling from, then there is/will be:
1) A way to scramble around down
2) An alternate rappel station
3) Everyone since the first ascentionist stuck there, looking very hungry and oh-so thirsty.
oh, and :
In reply to: I've had some training, done a lot of reading, but should probably take a beginner's class that covers the basics.
Word.
Brian
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kman
May 4, 2006, 5:05 AM
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In reply to: it's standard practice at my sport crag
He's not talking about rap hangers :roll:
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thetroutscout
May 4, 2006, 5:20 AM
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It really is a hassle when the route setting cheaps out and uses standard bolts at the top. Come one, give me a ring or a chain at least or spend the extra $ and buy a really rap hanger. I can't honestly be expected to leave anything on everything route I climb. What you did was probably fine but no the "best" for your rope. I doubt it would be possible for a bolt edge to cut through our modern day sheaths but I don't like surprises while I'm climbing.
^^ike
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omegaprime
May 4, 2006, 5:25 AM
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In reply to: It really is a hassle when the route setting cheaps out and uses standard bolts at the top. Come one, give me a ring or a chain at least or spend the extra $ and buy a really rap hanger. I can't honestly be expected to leave anything on everything route I climb. What you did was probably fine but no the "best" for your rope. I doubt it would be possible for a bolt edge to cut through our modern day sheaths but I don't like surprises while I'm climbing. ^^ike
Here's an idea, why don't you contribute and leave something behind? :wink: The route setter already have spend a bit on the bolts. I carry quicklinks with me in case I need to replace the ones at the anchor, going to get me some rap rings next. Over here sometimes you see slings being used instead of chains, so I guess that works too.
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rockguide
May 4, 2006, 5:31 AM
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In reply to: It really is a hassle when the route setting cheaps out ... (snip) ^^ike
Ah, the black hangers, the black hangers of BC.
Brian
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jimdavis
May 4, 2006, 5:57 AM
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In reply to: Is there anything you can share with us about that day that you did right? Curt
Funny how Curt likes to rip on people in the beginners forum for still learning, and having the courage to admit they don't know something.
Guess we can let it go though, cause it's not like Curt has ever been there.
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omegaprime
May 4, 2006, 6:10 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Is there anything you can share with us about that day that you did right? Curt As far as climbing goes, maybe not. But I did catch (and release) a lizard while I was in the middle of sending a V4 boulder problem. That was awesome.
Cool!! Get to know the wildlife and climb at the same time. 8^)
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superbum
May 4, 2006, 7:20 AM
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the chain that was dangling into space was put there for your conveniance to put your rope through in order to rap. The bolts were put there to serve as an anchor, eliminating the need to sling a rock w/ webbing.
I'm so glad you can climb v4, but don't know how to setup a toprope or rappel. May the ghosts of climbing's legends haunt you until you get your priorities straight.
boo.
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omegaprime
May 4, 2006, 7:31 AM
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I'm not familiar with the way its done in the US, but how can a dangling chain be used to rap off? Unless its attached to two bolts (which I think is normal practice), or is connected to form a loop (which sounds kinda dumb). At least the first option the standard here, with a rap ring or two attached to it with quicklinks.
Anyone got a picture of it?
Edited to clarify some points.
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