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nanoking
May 9, 2006, 7:39 PM
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What's the procedure for trad climbing without leaving anything behind? Webbing, anchors, etc.
Thanks,
NK
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greenketch
May 9, 2006, 7:48 PM
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This is about the most open ended troll that I have seen.
I suppose the answer would be to;
1: climb up using stuff that you can remove from the rock.
2: When at the top anchor in with something that is removable while you build an anchor you can pull down when you are done.
3: rap down removeing all the pro
4: Pull down the anchor
How this is achieved is a mixture of black magic, experience, and knowledge of the rock you are on.
From here it gets a little tricky
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dingus
May 9, 2006, 9:00 PM
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Free solo naked and don't shit on the summit.
DMT
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xjlx
May 9, 2006, 9:34 PM
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You down trad climb the route removing pro as you go down.
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estwing
May 9, 2006, 9:38 PM
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wait everyone! try this on for size. you lead the route. you belay your second who cleans the gear. you walk off. try it with no chalk for a truly organic experience!
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redlegrangerone
May 9, 2006, 9:41 PM
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Does it count as leaving no gear behind if you rap off an anchor of ham sammiches?
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blueeyedclimber
May 10, 2006, 1:04 AM
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I leave it ALL on the rock!!
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reg
May 10, 2006, 12:09 PM
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In reply to: Does it count as leaving no gear behind if you rap off an anchor of ham sammiches?
i do not like to rate posts cause ya only have two choices so i never do BUT - and i think you know where i'm heading with this - the "guild ed sammich" award - a super-sized likeness of a steaming heap of sliced ham on beer bread! grey poupon?
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reg
May 10, 2006, 12:13 PM
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In reply to: Does it count as leaving no gear behind if you rap off an anchor of ham sammiches?
i do not like to rate posts cause ya only have two choices so i never do BUT - and i think you know where i'm heading with this - the "guilded sammich" award - a super-sized likeness of a steaming heap of sliced ham on beer bread! grey poupon?
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redpoint73
May 10, 2006, 1:54 PM
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Free solo rappel.
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krusher4
May 10, 2006, 2:22 PM
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In reply to: Does it count as leaving no gear behind if you rap off an anchor of ham sammiches?
Yes because not only are they delicious they are also bio-degradable!
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curtis_g
May 10, 2006, 3:32 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: You lead the route. You belay your second who cleans the gear. You walk off.Well Said...
what if there isn't a walk off.
really, I'm pretty sure any gumby can figure out that they should walk off if they dont want to leave webbing. Lets pretend the OP added the 'when a walkoff is not available clause'
well, here is what i would do but only on a pitch 1/3 rope length: um, hav ethe rope looped and touching the ground and take that last third of rope and tie it to your webbing to rap, pull the 2 strands you rapped and then pull the third to take down the webbing
i just though of something new while typing this tho, i think without interference with the rope getting caught on anything, a stiff tug should bring this all down... about a foot to the side of the midpoint of the rope, tie a small fig 8 on a bite. now you girth hitch your webbing through that bite, and around a tree and then put the other half of your rope down through the non-hitched loop end of webbing. rap both ropes, and pull the 8 on a bite side
comment? anyone think this would work well enough?
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gary996
May 11, 2006, 1:08 AM
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you could allways base jump if your up high enough
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tradrenn
May 11, 2006, 2:04 AM
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In reply to: well, here is what i would do but only on a pitch 1/3 rope length: um, hav ethe rope looped and touching the ground and take that last third of rope and tie it to your webbing to rap, pull the 2 strands you rapped and then pull the third to take down the webbing
Did you just advised a n00b to do TRT ?
In reply to: i just though of something new while typing this tho, i think without interference with the rope getting caught on anything, a stiff tug should bring this all down... about a foot to the side of the midpoint of the rope, tie a small fig 8 on a bite. now you girth hitch your webbing through that bite, and around a tree and then put the other half of your rope down through the non-hitched loop end of webbing. rap both ropes, and pull the 8 on a bite side
Good idea, I think I will try it on day, and it also makes rapps longer. Just make sure you pull the right end of the rope or you gonna have major clusterfuck.
In reply to: comment? anyone think this would work well enough?
See my comment above.
Hey Curtis. What do we call this rappel way ?
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sbaclimber
May 11, 2006, 2:20 AM
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In reply to: i just though of something new while typing this tho, i think without interference with the rope getting caught on anything, a stiff tug should bring this all down... about a foot to the side of the midpoint of the rope, tie a small fig 8 on a bite. now you girth hitch your webbing through that bite, and around a tree and then put the other half of your rope down through the non-hitched loop end of webbing. rap both ropes, and pull the 8 on a bite side comment? anyone think this would work well enough?
Do you mean after you tie the fig. 8 it is the longer of the two ends of the rope?
If yes, then I think I see where you are going with this, and yes you will almost definitely end up with a clusterfuck!
In order to pull this system, you will end up pulling one end of the rope all the way back up the cliff, while pulling it around a tree, and through a sling. Good luck with that......
Mind you all these comments are based on my visualisation of what you said, which may be entirely wrong.
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curtis_g
May 11, 2006, 2:35 AM
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In reply to: Did you just advised a n00b to do TRT ? In reply to: i just though of something new while typing this tho, i think without interference with the rope getting caught on anything, a stiff tug should bring this all down... about a foot to the side of the midpoint of the rope, tie a small fig 8 on a bite. now you girth hitch your webbing through that bite, and around a tree and then put the other half of your rope down through the non-hitched loop end of webbing. rap both ropes, and pull the 8 on a bite side Good idea, I think I will try it on day, and it also makes rapps longer. Just make sure you pull the right end of the rope or you gonna have major f---. In reply to: comment? anyone think this would work well enough? See my comment above. Hey Curtis. What do we call this rappel way ?
Well, I couldn't remember the name of the TRT and still don't know what words TRT stands for even after you told me this but I'm guessing that I DID advise it to a n00b...or else I'm not sure why you would have asked me, but everyone should know by now that anything you read on this site you should 1) practice on the ground first 2) learn from someone more experienced in person and 3) remember that you read it on RC.com! i think those points are going to be my new signature/disclaimer for anything i happen to say.
as for this new rope pull technique i though of...I'd like to know if anyone has ever seen this done, if no one has then I would like to propose a name for it, that would be sweeeeet. I would call it the "no-trace eight pull" ...but really, has anyone seen or heard of this before?
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sbaclimber
May 11, 2006, 2:47 AM
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In reply to: as for this new rope pull technique i though of...I'd like to know if anyone has ever seen this done, if no one has then I would like to propose a name for it, that would be sweeeeet. I would call it the "no-trace eight pull" ...but really, has anyone seen or heard of this before?
Seeing as it at least doesn't sound dangerous, I suggest you go try it and then tell us how it worked :idea:
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curtis_g
May 11, 2006, 2:52 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: as for this new rope pull technique i though of...I'd like to know if anyone has ever seen this done, if no one has then I would like to propose a name for it, that would be sweeeeet. I would call it the "no-trace eight pull" ...but really, has anyone seen or heard of this before? No, and I doubt any one else has, for the reasons I pointed out in my post. Seeing as it at least doesn't sound dangerous, I suggest you go try it and then tell us how it worked :idea:
well, I will, not this weekend but next
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sbaclimber
May 11, 2006, 3:08 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: as for this new rope pull technique i though of...I'd like to know if anyone has ever seen this done, if no one has then I would like to propose a name for it, that would be sweeeeet. I would call it the "no-trace eight pull" ...but really, has anyone seen or heard of this before? No, and I doubt any one else has, for the reasons I pointed out in my post. Seeing as it at least doesn't sound dangerous, I suggest you go try it and then tell us how it worked :idea: well, I will, not this weekend but next
Edit, video of the setup and pull would be awesome, or at least photos.
Btw, make sure the rope is not twisted at all before you start trying to pull. If you have even half a twist in it, it will get stuck, guaranteed.
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tradrenn
May 12, 2006, 2:59 AM
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In reply to: Well, I couldn't remember the name of the TRT and still don't know what words TRT stands for even after you told me this but I'm guessing that I DID advise it to a n00b...or else I'm not sure why you would have asked me, but everyone should know by now that anything you read on this site you should 1) practice on the ground first 2) learn from someone more experienced in person and 3) remember that you read it on RC.com! i think those points are going to be my new signature/disclaimer for anything i happen to say.
Well, you must be one of the smart ones. I like the way you think and wish more people would think that way.
TRT atands for Texas Rope Trick.
In reply to: as for this new rope pull technique i though of...I'd like to know if anyone has ever seen this done, if no one has then I would like to propose a name for it, that would be sweeeeet. I would call it the "no-trace eight pull" ...but really, has anyone seen or heard of this before?
Sorry to disappoint you, but if I understood your description right: It will not work. It hit me this morning at work. I will post some picks tomorrow when I get home.
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tradrenn
May 12, 2006, 3:04 AM
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In reply to: I am not sure what you mean by 'the other half'!? :? Do you mean after you tie the fig. 8 it is the longer of the two ends of the rope? If yes, then I think I see where you are going with this, and yes you will almost definitely end up with a f---! In order to pull this system, you will end up pulling one end of the rope all the way back up the cliff, while pulling it around a tree, and through a sling. Good luck with that...... Mind you all these comments are based on my visualisation of what you said, which may be entirely wrong.
I think you are absolutely right, this is the same thing I was thinking today at work. Picks tomorrow.
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curtis_g
May 12, 2006, 4:00 AM
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nice picture, thats what i was picturing in my head, i'm still planning to try it out and see how much that rope actually gets hung up around the tree.
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sbaclimber
May 12, 2006, 4:05 AM
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In reply to: nice picture, thats what i was picturing in my head, i'm still planning to try it out and see how much that rope actually gets hung up around the tree.
Still keen to hear how it goes though (even though my expectations are the same as cracklover's).
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curtis_g
May 15, 2006, 3:42 AM
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Ok, so I had given up on my no trace eight pull and was awake this past weekend in my tent and was thinking about more ways or how to make my old way work, and I though about another way to accomplish getting that stinkin little runner down AND keep trhe full length of your rap.
here's what I thought of.
ok, so you toss the runner 'round that tree and you have two loops there. take one and put in an 8 on a bite or some other restricting knot to leave about a 1in. loop in the end.
then. thread your rope first through the big open loop and then through the restricted loop of the runner that has been passed behind the tree.
now. tie your n number fisherman's knot in the end of both sides of your rope. procede to rap like usual.
when. you get to the bottom, PULL the end that passes through the restricted side of the runner FIRST, WITHOUT undoing your n number fisherman's knot
and. when that fisherman's reaches the top give thr rope one of those little flicks that sends the wave up the rope. shake it a little and the rope should pass through the unrestricted loop of the runner and not get through the restricted end pulling your runner down and saving you a few bucks.
tada! anyone want to try...or you can just wait till next monday/sunday night...ill be at devil's lake next saturday/sunday and ill check out just how easy that 'little flick' sends the knot through the first loop of runner.
anyone heard of this before or seen it done? if not, and it works it will be called the 'restricted runner rappel pull'. (please work!) :lol:
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sbaclimber
May 15, 2006, 4:13 AM
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As I requested before, please video tape yourself testing this. I would really like to 'see' the result.
There is about a 1:100 chance that you will actually get the knot to 'flick' through the open loop, and about a 1:1,000 chance if you trying to pull your rope on anything less than ideal terrain.
(yes, I still think it will get stuck)
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curtis_g
May 15, 2006, 4:17 AM
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In reply to: As I requested before, please video tape yourself testing this. I would really like to 'see' the result. There is about a 1:100 chance that you will actually get the knot to 'flick' through the open loop, and about a 1:1,000 chance if you trying to pull your rope on anything less than ideal terrain. (yes, I still think it will get stuck)
wait 1 week for verbal results, a bit more for video of what happens
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sbaclimber
May 15, 2006, 4:22 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: As I requested before, please video tape yourself testing this. I would really like to 'see' the result. There is about a 1:100 chance that you will actually get the knot to 'flick' through the open loop, and about a 1:1,000 chance if you trying to pull your rope on anything less than ideal terrain. (yes, I still think it will get stuck) wait 1 week for verbal results, a bit more for video of what happens |
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rocketsocks
May 15, 2006, 6:22 AM
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I just tried curtis's new technique (knot in the end of the rope) using my foot as an anchor and surprisingly it worked fairly well (until it got caught on my foot). Realistically I'd have to say that just about any technique where you end up with a sling loop on the end of your rope(s) is just asking for it to get caught on something on the way down.
What this really needs is something mechanical, I think. Some sort of spring loaded / triggered gizmo which releases one part of the anchor sling and then grabs on to the rope after the rope end has partially passed through it.
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greenketch
May 15, 2006, 3:34 PM
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In reply to: Realistically I'd have to say that just about any technique where you end up with a sling loop on the end of your rope(s) is just asking for it to get caught on something on the way down. What this really needs is something mechanical, I think... .
I agree, In the Tree climbing world they often use a "Tree Saver" for limbs or trees that have sensitve bark. Essentially this is a long quickdraw with a large rap ring on one side and a small one on the other. The end of the rope gets a knot tied in it after being fed through both rings. Then when you pull from (from the small side) the knot goes through the large ring releasing the draw and then catches on the small ring. the whole shebang then pulls down.
In the climbing world you could do similar if you were to pass a runner around the tree. Then in the two bights that are formed clip a small biner on one and a HMS or large pear on the other. Then tie a overhand in the end of the rope. When you pulled the rope the overhand should work it's way through the pear but catch the small one.
All of that said I forsee a real challenge with a loose runner and two floppy biners actually making it to you at the bottom. Especialy in any knd of a brushy route or one with lots of chicken heads or cracks.
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sbaclimber
May 16, 2006, 12:20 AM
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In reply to: All of that said I forsee a real challenge with a loose runner and two floppy biners actually making it to you at the bottom. Especialy in any knd of a brushy route or one with lots of chicken heads or cracks. |
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tradrenn
May 16, 2006, 12:45 AM
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I don't think it is going to work cause the friction between a tree and a rope, but there is one think I can think of that would make it easier. A poolie.
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greenketch
May 16, 2006, 3:21 AM
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If you want to use a poolie than you need to dig upthe thread on testing toy biners. There is quite a discussion on how to set poodles as pro.
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