So...

grigri drops are 'the epidemic of our times' now?

Hey joe, do you have any stories that don't involve either 1974 or some dude named tangen-foster?

The "huh?" meant I see no connection between your story and my post.

Jay

Is anybody going to actually change their belay method after all the dust clears?

For about a decade if you were paying attention. Again, grigri drops are the most common accident in climbing today by a long, long margin.


When you have a 30 year career as remarkable as his and still climb and free solo as hard as him I'll talk about you. And the average climber in 1974 learned far, far more about climbing than the steady tidal flow of "climbers" who do a quick pass through climbing gyms and sport routes on their way to dumping their gear on ebay or craigslist.

For about a decade if you were paying attention. Again, grigri drops are the most common accident in climbing today by a long, long margin.

For about a decade if you were paying attention. Again, grigri drops are the most common accident in climbing today by a long, long margin.

There are no stats but Malcolm and I and anyone else with eyes and ears can simply extrapolate from the known to the unknown pretty damn easy. As for grigris preventing as many drops as they prevent - well, that speculation just tells you how sad the situation is. But again, you'd have to be in serious denial or simply lack any common sense at all to not recognize that being dropped by grigri user is far and away the highest risk of an accident the average climber faces today - and likely by orders of magnitude compared to whatever would be the second highest risk.

Kalcario,

Belay devices exhibit specific mechanical "behaviors" by design - a grigri autolocks, an ATC doesn't. New climbers can and do become lazy belayers wholly dependent on the autolock function of the device and on the use of a partial handle pull to break the rope when lowering instead of holding it open and using it as an ATC. The combination of these two "behaviors" together are what set the stage for the grigri becoming synonymous with dropped climbers.

GRI GRI'S FUNKIN' BLOW

how the hell are you gonna rap double ropes with a grigri?

It's important to realize that the reasons to use an auto-locking belay device have very little to do with how you get off of a climb; the important reasons involve the requirements of good sport belaying. It's simply much easier to be a good sport belayer if you have an auto-locker, such as a grigri or cinch. If you sport climb for very long at all, you're going to do a lot of boinging, you're gonna help climbers yard up with your weight, you're gonna catch plenty of big falls that yank you in the air (a few might even yank you into the leader!), and you're gonna spend a lot of time hanging off your device while the leader rests on the rope.

All of that can be done with an ATC, where a steady brake hand is absolutely crucial. But it's a hell of a lot safer to use an auto-locker, where maintaining a steady brake hand is safest, but losing the brake doesn't open the door to disaster. Most of the people who stick to ATCs do so out of ignorance and resistance to change.

Regarding the position that a qualified belayer will be in rapt attention at all moments: sure that would be ideal, but let's be realistic. Belaying is often very boring, fatiguing, even painful. The most vigilant belayers have to shake their neck out at times, and most of us get distracted now and again. It's not because we're horrible belayers, it's just human nature.

Rather than deny this obvious weakness that most of us share, it makes more sense to accept that it's almost impossible to always be completely focused on the leader at all times, and therefore use a device that will cover for you if you fail. This isn't a license to not pay attention. It just means that you're going to pay attention as much as possible, and have a backup if for some reason you aren't. You could be distracted by many things: attractive people, another climber, a bug stinging you, or a rock hitting you in the head. Accept that you're human, and use a device that will cover for you when you fail.

The dogma that a belayer needs to be the paragon of stoic concentration might sound noble, but it's really just dangerous machismo. For sport climbing, auto-lockers are the way to go. My preference is the cinch.

Let's just agree to call a spade a spade and say that the reason grigris are synonymous with sport climbing is because of the dogging - not the climbing, belaying, or catching falls - that holding or pulling up someone while they dog their way up a route is a pain in the ass with an ATC. Again, just be clear: grigris are primarily about hanging and winching, not climbing.

So you're basically advocating that folks screw up the main aspect of belaying that makes the difference between a safe belay and a half-assed one and then wonder why grigris tend to breed lousy belayers? While I would be the last person to question the attention span of the average sport climber I also wouldn't be making excuses for them or encouraging them to think giving s--- belays is simply "human nature". Sorry, I'm calling total s--- on that whole line of "reasoning". Unbelievable, really - get a grip, quit watching the babes, and pay attention to your business in the future...

Actually, I'm not advocating unattentive belaying. I'm just recognizing that even the most focused belayers drift away at times, and anyone can get stung by a bee, bitten by a dog, hit by a rock, or have a seizure. So why not put on your seat belt? You have someone's life and health in your hands... why not use a device that drastically reduces the danger, and works better?

ATCs are less safe, and less efficient, so you climb less, with less freedom.