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jrox
Feb 15, 2007, 3:44 PM
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The outfitter I work for just dropped Columbia & Mountain Hardwear from our line-up.. bummer. They said they recieved word that Mtn. Hardwear would be sold in retail stores in 3 years and that the quality was going way down then. Our rep told us, before placing $14,000 order, that we might want to look elsewhere and then proceeded to tell us why (above).
Just wondering if any of you know much about this situation? Some people in the industry seem to think the company is about to be sold.. or up for sale.
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bizarrodrinker
Feb 15, 2007, 3:47 PM
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Probably to Liz Claireborn or whoever the hell bought the Prana label.
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jrox
Feb 15, 2007, 3:48 PM
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sheesh.. you think? TNF quality went down when Vanity Fair bought them, but people are still addicted to those denali jackets.
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lena_chita
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Feb 15, 2007, 3:53 PM
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I'm not surprized. Just recently I have started seeing the most unlikely people wearing Mountain Hardwear stuff. And Arc'teryx, too! I'm talking a pot-bellied guy in dress shoes and"suit" pants with mountain hardwear jacket... WTF? It doesn't even fit well! And anyway, if you have dress shoes and suit, sholudn't you be wearing a dress coat?
I guess the real money is in mass retail and
"lifestyle" clothing, not in
"niche" marketing and gear. TNF and Columbia are everywhere, so why not Mtn Hardwear...
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natec
Feb 15, 2007, 4:21 PM
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lena_chita wrote: I'm not surprized. Just recently I have started seeing the most unlikely people wearing Mountain Hardwear stuff. And Arc'teryx, too! I'm talking a pot-bellied guy in dress shoes and"suit" pants with mountain hardwear jacket... WTF? It doesn't even fit well! And anyway, if you have dress shoes and suit, sholudn't you be wearing a dress coat? I guess the real money is in mass retail and "lifestyle" clothing, not in "niche" marketing and gear. TNF and Columbia are everywhere, so why not Mtn Hardwear...
Perhaps he was a climber or skier who had a real job. They do exist you know.
Choosing to wear a brand name of any kind is not some earned right that only those specific to an activity have. It's kinda sad that people have enough time to notice and care about such things.
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fitzontherocks
Feb 15, 2007, 4:21 PM
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That's sad. I'm a big MH fan. I was a North Face fan until Chevy began offering a North Face version of their Avalanche truck, that behemoth, gas eatin' idiotmobile. Of course, I had to buy my 14 year old daughter a TNF fleece because all her friends have 'em. I tried, but no other fleece would do for Princess. Face it, folks. We're cool and everybody wants to be just like us.
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mqsack
Feb 15, 2007, 4:23 PM
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you are complaining, for what you were carrying columbia. Mtn hardwear has been a main stream yuppie line for the past 2 years.
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jrox
Feb 15, 2007, 4:27 PM
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Yea, this society is very stratified.. not egalitarian. I think it's only natural to notice certain trends/habits that stand out or clash two opposing. We're picking up Spyder and [Lafuma?] from Europe. Supposedly they're a great brand but it's going to hard to turn people on to it I bet. I wish people would buy for the purpose of the design/technology behind the product. Anyway, I'm off to work, hope y'all have a rad afternoon...
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shakylegs
Feb 15, 2007, 4:28 PM
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natec wrote: lena_chita wrote: I'm not surprized. Just recently I have started seeing the most unlikely people wearing Mountain Hardwear stuff. And Arc'teryx, too! I'm talking a pot-bellied guy in dress shoes and"suit" pants with mountain hardwear jacket... WTF? It doesn't even fit well! And anyway, if you have dress shoes and suit, sholudn't you be wearing a dress coat? I guess the real money is in mass retail and "lifestyle" clothing, not in "niche" marketing and gear. TNF and Columbia are everywhere, so why not Mtn Hardwear... Perhaps he was a climber or skier who had a real job. They do exist you know. Choosing to wear a brand name of any kind is not some earned right that only those specific to an activity have. It's kinda sad that people have enough time to notice and care about such things.
Bang on, Jake.
I didn't know you had to belong to the "cool kids" club to wear certain brands.
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unrooted
Feb 15, 2007, 4:31 PM
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I just hope mountain hardwear follows north face and patagonias lead and starts making medium more like XL.
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andypro
Feb 15, 2007, 4:36 PM
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This ones amazing: I was comming back from a work related road trip and stopped in rochester, NY for lunch. I was in one of the mall things there (which is where the restaurant was...I hate malls)...anyways I saw a couple of phat-homey-G's wearin Wild Things Belay Jacket's with the tags still on em! I shit you not.
It's all out there! Sure, there was a time when you could tell a climber from a somethinelse based on "gear", but the lines are blurring. Think of biner keychains. Appearantly the lastest hot thing around here is to have an OP 5.0 holding both of your keys and 92 little dangly bits. They're way more expensive than "keychain biners" so apparently it's cool. I dont get it.
--Andy P
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hornboy101
Feb 15, 2007, 4:48 PM
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its a shame... I work at coast and we deal with them.. I havent yet noticed a trend towards it... but in a town like calgary with all the oil money... lots or Arc'teryx theta rain jacekts and such... Hopefully mountain harware doesnt jump into columbia board... Such good gear...
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bcm3u
Feb 15, 2007, 4:57 PM
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Having graduated from a fairly "southern" and "fratty" school, I can attest that both mountain hardware and Arc'Teryx are slowing becoming mainstream... at least in that demographic. Kids that don't do anything other than drink beers outdoors are wearing expensive performance jackets, simply because they are expensive. That being said... I'm basically a walking Mountain Hardware advertisement because I'm obsessed with their gear...
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crimpstrength
Feb 15, 2007, 4:58 PM
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doesn't columbia own hardwear now? I am phasing out my hardwear gear with other stuff.
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swaghole
Feb 15, 2007, 5:00 PM
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Sierra Design bit it big time about 5 years ago when they went main-stream. I had the old Avalanche 3 ply Gortex parka and it was a great jacket.
Now, the new stuff all sucks - I always find it in the discount bin at the local outfitter - and event at 50% or 70% off the ticket price, it's still not worth buying. At least not if you are looking for real outdoor gear.
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anykineclimb
Feb 15, 2007, 5:28 PM
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jrox wrote: The outfitter I work for just dropped Columbia & Mountain Hardwear from our line-up.. bummer. They said they recieved word that Mtn. Hardwear would be sold in retail stores in 3 years and that the quality was going way down then. Our rep told us, before placing $14,000 order, that we might want to look elsewhere and then proceeded to tell us why (above). Just wondering if any of you know much about this situation? Some people in the industry seem to think the company is about to be sold.. or up for sale.
Retail store? you mean like you shop?
I highly doubt MH will end up in Macy's if thats what you mean.
MH was aquired by Columbia a few years ago. It pretty apparent in Columbia's Titanium line that they're taking advantage of the R&D and experience of MH.
If anything, it may end up like TNF with a more casual line but still putting out quality outdoor gear. I like them and will continue to buy
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Points
Feb 15, 2007, 5:30 PM
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Yeah, I'll just say that I go to TCU in Ft. Worth and I can tell you that despite the fact that there are maybe three climbers on campus, there's more TNF, Hardware, and Patagonia than an REI warehouse. It's really depressing to see all of the brands you love selling out.
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c4c
Feb 15, 2007, 5:32 PM
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A dealer rep told you not to spend $14000 on product from a company that he reps for????? Did I understand that right??
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goodman
Feb 15, 2007, 5:43 PM
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MHW is owned by Columbia and has been for some time. Who cares if people other than climbers where their jackets..how about non-climbers using MHW tents, or heaven forbid someone other than the most elitist of alpinists wear the top-of-the-line gore-tex jacket. I’ll bet many of you have that cutting edge alpine climbing jacket and would never dare step foot into the mountains, does that make you a mainstream poseur - not according to you. The fact of the matter is most mountaineering/climbing companies need to get bought out in order to stay afloat and continue to provide us with the best equipment available! Or, we could go back to stove-leg pitons, hemp ropes, plastic poncho’s and bolt hangers made from bed frames.
Cheers,
PG
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Davey
Feb 15, 2007, 5:45 PM
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In the seattle are wear i live It is for sure the 'main stream' everybody thinks it's cool to wear MH and TNF. The suit wearing the MH is the norm. welcome to the future
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bcm3u
Feb 15, 2007, 5:47 PM
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goodman wrote: MHW is owned by Columbia and has been for some time. Who cares if people other than climbers where their jackets..how about non-climbers using MHW tents, or heaven forbid someone other than the most elitist of alpinists wear the top-of-the-line gore-tex jacket. I’ll bet many of you have that cutting edge alpine climbing jacket and would never dare step foot into the mountains, does that make you a mainstream poseur - not according to you. The fact of the matter is most mountaineering/climbing companies need to get bought out in order to stay afloat and continue to provide us with the best equipment available! Or, we could go back to stove-leg pitons, hemp ropes, plastic poncho’s and bolt hangers made from bed frames. Cheers, PG
I think the point we were making is that the items are being worn for fashion and status rather than for purpose. It doesnt matter if climbers wear the brand... people who enjoy skiing, camping, et al. would benefit. The problem lies when you have the clothes becoming trendy and worn by randoms, simply because it is expensive.
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moose_droppings
Feb 15, 2007, 5:47 PM
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Freaking fashion police..........get a life!
Dress to be comfortable and warm and to hell what anyone thinks.
Brand names....pffft
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Points
Feb 15, 2007, 5:50 PM
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In reply to: The problem lies when you have the clothes becoming trendy and worn by randoms, simply because it is expensive.
Then you hit the point where it's more profitable to cater slightly to these people and you company ends up like TNF whose quality has really dropped off, fit has gone out the window (at least for the tall skinny climbers) and caters more to fashion than function.
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milominderbinder
Feb 15, 2007, 6:01 PM
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Ok, is the quality actually going down, or do you just feel like it is because other people where it? Theoretically, with people buying the stuff just for looks, the company is making a whole lot more money that they can throw into developing newer, quality products.
I have not heard anyone here say how the gear sucks now, once mainstream. I have just heard people complain that 'people that don't do what I do now wear it...MH obviously sold out and does not make quality gear.'
This is at the same time as the RC.com front page has a news post about Mountain Hardwear looking for massive input from users of their gear to help them develop new things.
EDIT:
In reply to: Then you hit the point where it's more profitable to cater slightly to these people and you company ends up like TNF whose quality has really dropped off, fit has gone out the window (at least for the tall skinny climbers) and caters more to fashion than function.
That at least is some reasonable criticism, especially as I, a taller skinnier climber, see the issue.
(This post was edited by milominderbinder on Feb 15, 2007, 6:05 PM)
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Davey
Feb 15, 2007, 6:03 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: Freaking fashion police..........get a life! Dress to be comfortable and warm and to hell what anyone thinks. Brand names....pffft points wrote: Then you hit the point where it's more profitable to cater slightly to these people and you company ends up like TNF whose quality has really dropped off, fit has gone out the window (at least for the tall skinny climbers) and caters more to fashion than function.
I think the point is that even if you whear it just to be cool. Fine with me. But the more popular it is with people that don't care about the quality the more likely it is to have the quality go down. Would you buy an Abercrombie and Fitch jacket for climbing? Hell no. they started out making high end outdoor work wear now look at them, same with Eddie Bauer now there stuff sucks.
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bcm3u
Feb 15, 2007, 6:07 PM
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Davey wrote: moose_droppings wrote: Freaking fashion police..........get a life! Dress to be comfortable and warm and to hell what anyone thinks. Brand names....pffft points wrote: Then you hit the point where it's more profitable to cater slightly to these people and you company ends up like TNF whose quality has really dropped off, fit has gone out the window (at least for the tall skinny climbers) and caters more to fashion than function. I think the point is that even if you whear it just to be cool. Fine with me. But the more popular it is with people that don't care about the quality the more likely it is to have the quality go down. Would you buy an Abercrombie and Fitch jacket for climbing? Hell no. they started out making high end outdoor work wear now look at them, same with Eddie Bauer now there stuff sucks.
I completely agree with the thesis of your post, but just for clarification - let's be honest, A&F has never made anything high end... ever. :-)
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goodman
Feb 15, 2007, 6:10 PM
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How do you think the mainstream public feels when they see those outdoorzy types wearing Levis...or driving the same car. We should petition the President of the US to stop this..I’ll bet he would even go to war over it. OH s**t, I just saw this guy wearing an MHW and there is just no way in hell he is cool enough to have that thing on - kill himmmmm
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unrooted
Feb 15, 2007, 6:11 PM
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bizarrodrinker wrote: Probably to Liz Claireborn or whoever the hell bought the Prana label.
It kind of sucks that prana is now owned by liz, but have you looked at prana lately, it may no longer be made in the usa, but the quality appears better than before, one example is the zion stretch pants, I love the fit and fabric, but the stitching on both pair I own came undone on the ass, but the newer ones look way more bomber.
But in the end I would rather support companies like patagonia that at least try to minimize their footprint though. Large companies care about one thing, money, which means if they pick up a brand like MH, they will have to start changing sizes to fit the average american.
The thing about the wild things jacket is bizzare, but if companies could stay in business without moving manufacturing overseas, and lowering quality because whack ass gangstas start buying their clothes I will stand behind that. So if your a small time clothing company that wants to make great outdoor wear, using environmentally sound manufacturing practices, but advertise in rap magazines I am for that. (maybe they could up the price so hipsters will want to buy it, and have special deals if you can prove you actually climb???).
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hosh
Feb 15, 2007, 6:13 PM
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Man, I live in Juneau and The weather dictates that Everyone wears this gear. I'm talking about lawyers and such that never go outside except to get into their fancy cars to drive home and they've got ArcTeryx hard shells. It's just par for the course in this town... So what?
hosh.
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euroford
Feb 15, 2007, 8:07 PM
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do you poeple realy care if its mainstreme or not? common whatever. just go send for crying out loud, where whatever works for you.
i bought my favorite backpack at the north face store on friggin michigan avenue in downtown chicago. obviously i'm not very core considering that i bought a mainstreme northface product in an area of town obviously geared towards tourists.
you know who the posers are? the people who actually give a shit about where they buy there stuff.
and can you believe it, at that same store, i bought my wife (whos not a climber) a jacket obviously not made for climbing. she loves it. mission accomplished.
and i dig my MH jacket as well... if i need another one, and they make a nice one, and i get a good deal on it, i'll buy it. i get a discount at macy's....
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rob729
Feb 15, 2007, 8:19 PM
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fitzontherocks wrote: That's sad. I'm a big MH fan. I was a North Face fan until Chevy began offering a North Face version of their Avalanche truck, that behemoth, gas eatin' idiotmobile. Of course, I had to buy my 14 year old daughter a TNF fleece because all her friends have 'em. I tried, but no other fleece would do for Princess. Face it, folks. We're cool and everybody wants to be just like us.
he is right...they do want to be like us
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fitzontherocks
Feb 15, 2007, 8:28 PM
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W E A R. Not where. Mainstream. Not manestreem.
We're cool, we just can't spell sh*t.
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redpoint73
Feb 15, 2007, 8:36 PM
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It seemed that Patagonia made the move of trying to broaden their customer base a few years back. I remember seeing Patagonia stuff in lots of "regular" sporting goods stores. Then it seems that the company decided this was a bad move, and now I only see there stuff at specialty climbing and high-end ski shops. I don't know how conscious of a decision this was. Has anyone else observed this, or have any "inside" info?
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dingus
Feb 15, 2007, 8:38 PM
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jrox wrote: sheesh.. you think? TNF quality went down when Vanity Fair bought them, but people are still addicted to those denali jackets.
TNF has been shitty for more than 2 decades.
DMT
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dingus
Feb 15, 2007, 8:49 PM
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I went skiing the other day and looked down.
The horror... the horror.
No my pants weren't unzipped. That wouldn't be apparent, haha.
My shell pants, jacket. long undies, gloves, hat - all REI. Every fucking one of them, how EMBARRASSING.
For me the equation is ordered like this: price, function, form, durability, price.
Label doesn't even factor in. I truly do not care who's label I sport. I will never buy a top of the line outdoor garmet for full retail anywhere, any time for any reason.
Every piece of REI gear I own was purchased when on sale too. I have a North Face down jacket I got at their outlet in Berzerkly for $75 bucks. I like it just fine, but have a poly-whatever Moonstone I picked up from Sierra Outlet (the Cheap Bastard's 2nd best friend) for $80.
I actually hold labels against certain mfgs - I automatically assume Raqtagonia is too expensive unless marked 60-80% off in a 2nds bin. Ditto arcteryx and other so called specialty clothing mfgs. My kids sport Columbia, you've have to be a rich yuppie label poser to outfit your kids with name brand bullshit.
DMT
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qwert
Feb 15, 2007, 9:07 PM
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is MH quality going down?
well, i have only three jackets to compare, so its not exactly scientific, but i will try anyways:
i have an old exposure II parka (a goretex one, from before they switched to their own mebrane). it must be around lets say 4 to 7 yers old (i dont know. i only know it was my everyday jacket for a long time), then i have one of those "first" ultralight jackets (dont know the name, but its around 300g and must be around 3 to 4 yers old) and finally i have that freakin expensive500€ tenacity light jacket, wich i bought last year.
the exposure II is still my favorite. some seams are starting to show some wear, and it starts to get a bit fuzzy at some edges, but apart from that,no complaints. i absolutely love that jacket, its like shiny knights armor, just not shiny anymore, but still heavy enough.
well its a parka, so i guess it has to be a bit oversized, and since it also was marketed as gear for ski patrols this is ok. and i can fit the contents of a small backpack in its pockets.
the light one is not so sturdy, but this was obvious from the beginning, since it was among the lightest jackets available. also it wasnt expensive, so thats ok. it does what it has to do. live in the pack most of the time and only come out for a short shower.
but its to big for me. im quite skinny, and not very muskular, so im used to my clothes having some slack, but for performance clothing this is not good.
the tenacyti jacket seems to be very sturdy (cant really judge that, i only have it since one year), so also no issues with the quality, but its also to big, apart from the waist. there it is to short, it always raises when im raising my arms. and the pockets arent worth shit. you cant access them, since they are to far on the sides, so their openings interfer with the backpack shoulder straps. and if i finally get something in, it falls in a big black hole until it comes to a stop below the harness , so the only pocket that i can use is the small one on the front. well, my ipod fits nice there, so mission accomplished.
definitely not worth the 500€. luckily i got it for 150€.
so the built quality is still good, but i have to start to get fat.
but wich brands can you still buy? MH, obviously going yuppy. Patagonia? aint that patagucci? arteryx? thei are also pretty in i have heard. what else??
i will buy what i can get for a good price, and what has a good quality. mostly i dont care about image, so thats not to big of a problem, and as long as our gangsters still wear fubu and hillfucker and wtf them homies are called, i will remain individuall enough with my stuff.
qwert
(and im also to cool to spell)
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slowhand
Feb 15, 2007, 9:16 PM
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I'd wear the f'n gap if its quality stuff and comforable to climb in. More power to them if they sell out and make some cash.
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unreleasedenergy
Feb 15, 2007, 9:18 PM
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I saved for a long time to be able to afford my gear for the mountains as a college student. I bought the best stuff I could afford. most of it was MHW. I don't regret saveing the money and buying their gear, even if the same gear may appear on some yuppie. The gear I bought has kept me alive in conditions where cheaper stuff would likely have failed and I'm somewhat attached to it. That gear represents a huge investment to me, so I never wear any of it in the city or to school or work, no matter how crappy it is outside. I'll wear my beat up carhart jacket and hoodie to save the wear and tear on those pieces.
Do most of you guys wear your technical pieces in the city too?
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euroford
Feb 15, 2007, 9:26 PM
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some REI stuff just kicks ass. i really love my shoeller pants, they were cheap, warm and burly. pretty much the only item to survive the diamond last year without serious scars, and the pants would have taken the worst.
columbia makes some good stuff. having grown up in michigan, we always considered them the 'local brand'.
but i'll admit, sometimes i'm more than happy to pay a premium when i find something that i think is totaly bitchin. i recently got a Patagonia DAS parka and i already consider it money well spent.
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crotch
Feb 15, 2007, 9:38 PM
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My buddy and I were on Foraker last summer. I was equipped in 2006 MH gear, and my buddy had the same stuff, but made in 2002. A wicked storm came in, pinned us down at 20,000 feet for 17 days in an ice cave without a stove. He survived to tell the tale, but I didn't make it back home.
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lena_chita
Moderator
Feb 15, 2007, 9:47 PM
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euroford wrote: do you poeple realy care if its mainstreme or not? common whatever. just go send for crying out loud, where whatever works for you...
NO. GAP is as mainstream as it gets, and I have no problem wearing a Gap T-shirt. No more problem than I have wearing a no-name t-shirt from Target. If it fits, and the price is right, then I buy it.
The only thing about "going mainstream" for companies that at some point used to be targeting a specific activity/niche is that a lot of times quality suffers when they go mainstream. And yet they still think that they could charge premium for the name and the "image". And THAT I do care about.
And I admit that the "lifestyle" clothing idea makes me laugh. Want a bet on how many women wearing Keen water sandals last summer in Cleveland ever got their sandals wet? How many fancy hiking boots ever see the sight of trails? And how many people wearing ski jackets around town ever gone skiing? Forget the brand names, I'm talking function...
There is a trend right now for "activewear" clothing being cool, and I think MH, just like TNF, Columbia, and the rest of them is doing what they can to capitalize on that trend. But I still find the trend itself ridiculous.
For the record, I have never owned anything from TNF, MH, patagonia, prAna, etc. etc. I have never bought them just b/c they were "cool"-- but I've seen people making the decision to buy them for that reason only.
Will I at some point own them? Quite possible, if the price is right and the item fits it's intended function well. And that would not depend on whether half of the population of the city of Cleveland is sporting TNF Denali Fleece jackets (as they do now), or if they moved on to Arc'teryx and MH and whether the items are for sale at Dicks, REI or MACY's. Though I have to admit that I've never shopped for clothing at REI or Macy's and probably won't start anytime soon...
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shakylegs
Feb 15, 2007, 9:48 PM
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crotch wrote: My buddy and I were on Foraker last summer. I was equipped in 2006 MH gear, and my buddy had the same stuff, but made in 2002. A wicked storm came in, pinned us down at 20,000 feet for 17 days in an ice cave without a stove. He survived to tell the tale, but I didn't make it back home.
Ya poor bastard. I guess your buddy left your body on the mountain, did he? After eating parts of you to survive, of course.
I knew MH couldn't be trusted.
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kjohnnytarr
Feb 15, 2007, 9:56 PM
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Damn...hippest, saddest, lamest thread on RC.com ever.
If you care that much about not having all the damn urbanites wearing "your" jacket, make one yourself or start your own damn company!
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moose_droppings
Feb 15, 2007, 10:24 PM
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In reply to: Would you buy an Abercrombie and Fitch jacket for climbing?
Hell yes I would if it was comfortable and warm and the price was right.
I don't have to please nobody but myself.
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Davey
Feb 15, 2007, 11:54 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: In reply to: Would you buy an Abercrombie and Fitch jacket for climbing? Hell yes I would if it was comfortable and warm and the price was right. I don't have to please nobody but myself.
Personally when I shop for a jacket I look for quality, durability and functionality. If you can find what works for you at Abercrombie and Fitch then more power to you.
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crotch
Feb 16, 2007, 12:16 AM
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climbsomething
Feb 16, 2007, 1:13 AM
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kman wrote: There seems to be 3 streams of thought on this. Those that feel that because they are climbers they are better than those who are not, and how dare outsiders wear "climber" brands.
In reply to: Those that think they are truly hardcore because they do not spend top dollar on performance wear like all of the yuppies.
In reply to: And 3rd, those that really don't give a shit.
*brushes dog hair off sweet Columbia jacket draped on back of her corporate office chair*
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macherry
Feb 16, 2007, 4:24 AM
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heh heh
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qwert
Feb 16, 2007, 8:43 AM
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unreleasedenergy wrote: Do most of you guys wear your technical pieces in the city too?
today it will be an arteryx fleece, with a arteryx shirt, and im a bit undecided if i will wear my arcteryx softshell atop it, or my MH hardshell. My shoes are Meindl, trezeta or la sprotiva approach shoes. My backpack is a skiing pack of berghaus's extreme line and i will arrive at the university on my dirtbike, with some freakin uge disk brakes. i guess im pretty pathetic.
why should i buy some extra stuff of mediocre quality, just for around town? and if my outdoor stuff gets destroyed from this, it wasnt worth it anyways.
my only two jackets that are not from an outdoors brand are my army parka (my father bought it used when he was as old as i am now) wich is great for going to concerts and such, and my green orange forest jacket i use when im out with my chainsaw. but it also looks quite fine around town. i think with that jacket i am really individual
qwert
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jrox
Feb 16, 2007, 10:27 AM
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Well my intent for this post wasn't to target stereotypes who wear the gear. I don't mind who pays for a quality shell/fleece. My concern is for the quality of MHW and their yearning for as much money as possible. TNF's quality went down no doubt and the sizing is rediculous now.. smalls are HUGE. They stopped installing pit-zips a few years ago and then went back to them after so many complaints. I just hope that MHW doesn't look for these same profit-increasing/quality-reducing ideas with their gear. I guess we'll see within the next 3 years or so.
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kman
Feb 17, 2007, 12:09 AM
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I'm not really convinced that TNF quality has gone down hill...maybe for some stuff...I don't know. I have 2 Summit Series peices that are about 4 years old, a soft shell and a down jacket. Both have held up extremely well to wear and tear. I wear the down jacket in -30 with a t-shirt underneath, and it's warm as hell. Seems pretty quality.
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roy_hinkley_jr
Feb 17, 2007, 12:31 AM
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kman wrote: Seems pretty quality.
Agreed. Their high-end stuff is easily as good as Arc'teryx/Patagonia/Mtn/Hardwear/Marmot. But it's more fashionable to diss TNF so you look cool to everyone else who is a "climber."
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wallwombat
Feb 17, 2007, 1:27 AM
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I think it says a lot about the crappy, shallow,Pepsi-Max character of the climbing community nowadays that an asinine subject about some brand name gets more views and replies than a thread about fall factors posted around the same time.
Well i guess as long as you leave a good lookin corpse..........
Just shut up and go climbing. It doesn't matter what you wear. It doesn't matter if you wear the knitted sweater your granny made you and wear Hush Puppies. (I was about to write, 'just do it' but mercifully the irony police intervened!)
Go to Sheffield. You will see guys who climb harder than any of you and they dress like hobos who steal their clothes out of charity bins. They don't own a raincoat. They don't own a winstopper fleece.
They go climbing though!
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deltav
Feb 17, 2007, 1:36 AM
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The real problem is that if the companies left it up to us to suport them they would go under tomorrow, no matter how much we wanted to buy thier stuff. We are just not large enough of a market to support a company in todays retail world
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puerto
Feb 18, 2007, 1:23 AM
Post #58 of 69
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In reply to: i bought my favorite backpack at the north face store on friggin michigan avenue in downtown chicago. obviously i'm not very core considering that i bought a mainstreme northface product in an area of town obviously geared towards tourists.
When I lived in Chicago walking into that store was always a trying experience.
Should I be depressed because I climb and I live in Chicago?"
Or should I just be happy that I haven't yet become the idiot walking into the Armani store across the street?
Some of those free concerts in Grant Park in the summer were pretty epic though..
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styleboy
Feb 18, 2007, 2:21 AM
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tnwagener
Mar 2, 2007, 6:26 AM
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Sad to Say, Spider is even more mainstream. At least the price keeps it mostly in the outdoor sports area. If you are looking for some great lines for your shop check out Ice wear. They have a great outerwear lineup for next year.
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scuclimber
Mar 3, 2007, 2:45 AM
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I guess it wouldn't be RC.com if threads like this didn't pop up every so often. Neophytes decrying the end of the world that yuppie suburbanites purchase expensive shit. What's new? Keeping up with the Jones's has been going on for a long time. "Core" companies "selling out" is not a new phenomenon. Core mountaineering company A makes top of the line gear, yuppies latch onto it, big corporation sees profit, buys company A, company A gets too popular and/or quality goes down and/or is no longer cool, company B comes along and takes A's place at the top of the cool, niche mountaineering market, megacorp comes along a few years later and buys company B, cycle rinse repeat. Get the hell over it, try a forum search and you'll find the topic has been discussed ad nauseum, and move on with your life. I own all sorts of Arcteryx and Patagucci stuff and wear it when I'm climbing and BC skiing and when I'm walking around downtown San Francisco. If you saw me on the street, how the hell would you know if I was a climber/BC skier or not? What if I was wearing loafers and a suit with a Theta jacket over it in the rain? Blah blah blah blah. (I really need to stop responding to these posts.  )
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miavzero
Mar 3, 2007, 3:08 AM
Post #64 of 69
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Do any of you think that the good ol' boys on ranchhand.com have started threads about scrawny homos who climb rocks while wearing carhardt pants?
I have issues, because the other day some surfers made fun of my quicksilver shorts and two fourteen year old skaters stole my vans shoes while I was walking barefoot on the beach.
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socialclimber
Mar 4, 2007, 12:39 PM
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The thing that bugs me about this trend is colour choice. After a while all you get is "muted earth tones" or black, when what I really want s a BRIGHT ORANGE jacket so when I'm lying at the bottom of a cliff in a snow storm, theres still a small chance my rescuers might see me.
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oldsalt
Mar 4, 2007, 4:53 PM
Post #66 of 69
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unrooted wrote: ... but the quality appears better than before, one example is the zion stretch pants, I love the fit and fabric, but the stitching on both pair I own came undone on the ass, but the newer ones look way more bomber.
I mean no hostility toward unrooted, but this is the first time that I have seen "bomber" refer to ass stitching on a pair of pants instead of a gear placement.
On the thread as a whole...and I am guilty of this myself, at least a little bit...
When people wear climbing clothes to impress others instead of for climbing, they are stealing our thunder as we try to impress others by climbing?
oldsalt wrote: ...and I am guilty of this myself, at least a little bit...
I don't care what anyone else wears. When I layer up for climbing in snow, I've got such a mix of crap on me that I'd be a fashion disaster at a soup kitchen. Sill, I did enjoy seeing a TNF jacket and "knowing" that the person in it was a climber.
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el_layclimber
Mar 4, 2007, 6:09 PM
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"oldsalt wrote: this is the first time that I have seen "bomber" refer to ass stitching on a pair of pants instead of a gear placement. quote] Bomber: (adj.) Slang, likely Dirtbaggish in origin: "Bomb proof" indestructable, secure, trustworthy, or otherwise of superior quality. Eg.: "I used three wraps of athletic tape to attach this 40-ounce of OE to my hand, it's totally bomber brah." I bought my "North Fake," a Chinese knock-off of a North face windstopper jacket from the silk market in Beijing. It is well stitched, made of real Gore tex and cost ten dollars. The zippers will probably blow out at an inopportune time and I will freeze to death. How many dirtbag points do I get?
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kjohnnytarr
Mar 8, 2007, 3:11 PM
Post #69 of 69
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Funny: I was just on BikeForums, and there's a thread eerily similar to this one, about non-bikers wearing messenger bags...
Oh, and the good people at GoldMining.com are pissed about you people wearing Levi's. Can't you learn your place?!
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