|
|
|
|
8flood8
Feb 28, 2007, 7:02 PM
Post #1 of 41
(3458 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
Barring climbing in the desert...
at what depth do you feel your rack is "complete" enough to take almost everywhere in the US and feel that you could cover most of what you needed to.
let me give you more a more specific question --as of right now will this range do well for me while i travel?
according to the spadout rack simulator
i have 4 choices of pro between 12mm and 88mm
then 2 selections under 11mm and 2 over 91mm
this is cams only - not counting nuts and hexes
the largest selection i have is in the handcrack range 9 choices at the 40mm range.
Do people see single pitch routes taking more than 9 pieces ?
i haven't approached the point in climbing where i enjoy climbing offwidth cracks (i'm not that good yet) but i am wondering where you draw the line. Of course if we go to the desert i'm sure i'll need 15 gold camalots.
edited to be more specific*
(This post was edited by 8flood8 on Feb 28, 2007, 7:24 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
anthonycuskelly
Feb 28, 2007, 7:33 PM
Post #2 of 41
(3423 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 4, 2007
Posts: 51
|
It's far more than I've got, and I haven't noticed much in the way of problems. Though a rack can never really be called complete...
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Feb 28, 2007, 7:44 PM
Post #3 of 41
(3413 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
It depends. <<< The typical answer regarding things like this. Ultimately it depends on your confidence in different situations. My go-anywhere do-anything rack is, for me, what I need in most all situations. To share this is what I take when I travel (Not what I have):
1 full set `o nuts
Pink - navy blue tricams
0 - 2 metolous tcu
.04 - 4 C4 (doubled .5 - 2) (have the option to have .4 - 6 if the situation may call for it)
Throw in 13 slings and some biners and I'm good for anywhere.
I've placed more than 9 pieces on a 200' route. At the same time I've placed as few as one.... Depends.
|
|
|
|
|
deltav
Feb 28, 2007, 7:48 PM
Post #4 of 41
(3411 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 597
|
At the moment I have...
1 full set of nuts (1-13)
1 full set of hexes (1-11)
doubles of .5 & 1 tri-cams, 1.5, 2, 2.5
doubles of camalots .5-2
(1)3 & 3.5
about 12 trad draws
like stated above, is it ever complete? Dunno, but I have stopped buying, for the moment
|
|
|
|
|
coastal_climber
Feb 28, 2007, 7:52 PM
Post #5 of 41
(3406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 2542
|
Why don't you tell us what you actually have instead of giving us partial info.
>Cam
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Feb 28, 2007, 8:01 PM
Post #6 of 41
(3399 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
lol ok --
tcu 00, 0, 1,2,2,3,3,4,4
powercams 10, 1
UL powercams 5,6,7,8
c4 1,2,2,3,4
camalot .75
wc tech friend 2.5
i just look at my cams as what they could potentially protect
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Feb 28, 2007, 8:06 PM
Post #7 of 41
(3393 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
8flood8 wrote: lol ok -- tcu 00, 0, 1,2,2,3,3,4,4 powercams 10, 1 UL powercams 5,6,7,8 c4 1,2,2,3,4 camalot .75 wc tech friend 2.5 i just look at my cams as what they could potentially protect
Passive pro??? That's where you can shave wieght and still have two pieces for a given range. Cams are good, but expensive to leave (bail on), especially if you're traveling and probably aren't going to be back to an area for a good while...
|
|
|
|
|
climbinginchico
Feb 28, 2007, 8:09 PM
Post #8 of 41
(3388 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 3032
|
It's never complete!!
That does seem like a decent selection, however. I've placed as many as 14 pieces on a full 70m pitch, and this was on a multi pitch climb.
I just looked at the graphs for the first time in a while- I've got 16 pieces in a few sizes... and I still don't feel my rack is quite there. Need more big stuff and quintuples up to 4.
|
|
|
|
|
flying_dutchman
Feb 28, 2007, 8:11 PM
Post #9 of 41
(3384 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2002
Posts: 708
|
my rack is as complete as it ever will be. Am I satisfied yet? Nah, never will be. Wait, that sounds like an addiction now.
|
|
|
|
|
rockprodigy
Feb 28, 2007, 8:56 PM
Post #10 of 41
(3346 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540
|
You would be far better off worrying about whether or not your skills are complete, than your rack. Thirty years ago people climbed hard stuff with only nuts and slings...they depended on themselves, not gear!
Skill will get you up far more climbs than gear will, and as such, nobody could possibly give you a good answer to your question without knowing what your skills are.
|
|
|
|
|
dlintz
Feb 28, 2007, 9:13 PM
Post #11 of 41
(3329 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 9, 2002
Posts: 1982
|
rockprodigy wrote: You would be far better off worrying about whether or not your skills are complete, than your rack. Thirty years ago people climbed hard stuff with only nuts and slings...they depended on themselves, not gear! Skill will get you up far more climbs than gear will, and as such, nobody could possibly give you a good answer to your question without knowing what your skills are.
I agree to a point, gear won't "get him up a route" however much is based upon one's comfort level. That said, he doesn't have to rely on only nuts and slings. IMO his question refers to what it takes to generally protect most routes he would encounter. I think his question is valid.
d.
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Feb 28, 2007, 11:05 PM
Post #12 of 41
(3284 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
i mentioned earlier that this is just my active pro.
for passive i have
2 sets of nuts with half a set of random specialty (curve nuts etc.)
set of hexes 1-11 with doubles in 7,8,9,10
and 1 tricam i can't remember... red i think.. one of the smaller ones.
thanks for all the thread life yo, and please keep your opinions coming
dlintz hit the nail on the head.
i do realize that i need skills more than gear, i am developing both! heh
|
|
|
|
|
legion
Feb 28, 2007, 11:22 PM
Post #13 of 41
(3269 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 86
|
You have this all backwords. You like handcracks, who doesn't, but you don't need 19 gold Camalots because only gumbies fall out of handcracks. What you do need are some #6 cams to protect those offwidths you hate so much. Guess what, they hate you, too, and one of them is going to creep up on you while you are on your road trip and $hit all over your rack of #2 Camalots. You will bleed, you will cry, and then you will go to the nearest gear shop and buy some big cams. You have been warned, now get out there and learn to leavitate.
|
|
|
|
|
bandidopeco
Mar 1, 2007, 12:15 AM
Post #14 of 41
(3241 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 257
|
After using them a little in granite (they wouldn't be as nice in Sandstone) I couldn't consider my rack complete without Alien offsets. Yeah, they're the proverbial shit, more versitile then normal cams. Yosemite, J-Tree or here up in Tahoe they kick ass.
(no i don't work for CCH)
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Mar 1, 2007, 7:55 AM
Post #15 of 41
(3173 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
the "complete" rack, as if such a thing actually existed. but it will protect you on pretty much anything... if you make intelligent selections.
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Mar 1, 2007, 1:37 PM
Post #16 of 41
(3155 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
A rack is never truely complete.
I would consider my typical rack a take almost anywhere to climb routes 5.8 and under rack. Single set of cams, s#0 TCU to #4 BD, single set of nuts (doubles are nice though) and the first 3 tri-cams. Hexes are okay, but I haven't used them too many places.
Single set of cams and nuts will get you up most 5.8 and under climbs. But there will always be exceptions.
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Mar 1, 2007, 2:17 PM
Post #17 of 41
(3129 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
More often than not, my travel rack is nothing more than 5 cams, small set of nuts, tricams, and 8 trad draws. Hasn't failed to get me up anything yet. You'll find that your rack can and will be trimmed or beefed up depending on where you are going. Research as to where you are heading next will help immensely with your decision as to what you may need where you are going.
For instance. Out where I live and climb the most, I only need a handful of nuts, tricams, and cams up to C4 #2, singled. Small and effective. When I go visit my parents and climb near there, I bring just about everything due to most of the climbs requiring doubles and big crap.
Your rack will always be dependant on your objective.
If you are planning on building up something for which to draw from when you travel, then doubles of everything standard is a good start.
|
|
|
|
|
swede
Mar 1, 2007, 2:33 PM
Post #18 of 41
(3112 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2003
Posts: 133
|
I would say that you might have a too large rack already....
If you must add something I would say small tricams. They are cheaper and lighter than cams, but can in many cases replace them.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Mar 1, 2007, 2:55 PM
Post #19 of 41
(3097 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
8flood8 wrote: tcu 00, 0, 1,2,2,3,3,4,4 powercams 10, 1 UL powercams 5,6,7,8 c4 1,2,2,3,4 camalot .75 wc tech friend 2.5 2 sets of nuts with half a set of random specialty (curve nuts etc.) set of hexes 1-11 with doubles in 7,8,9,10 and 1 tricam (red?)
I took the liberty of listing all your pro in one place. At a glance, I'd say you have a rack that will travel well to most places. To be honest, it's probably more pro you want to carry on many routes.
You have 22 cams listed, and probably an equal number of nuts. Despite an abundance of cams, you also have 15 hexes. I'd guess you're between 55 - 60 pieces. I know it's not the popular opinion on rc.com, but there is such a thing as carrying too much gear.
Here's what I usually carry, which has served me fairly well on easy/moderate multipitch routes:
1 set of ABC nuts (4 - 13) - been wanting to add to that
BD hexes 4 - 11
RE micro-robots .25 - .5 - thinking about upgrading
BD camalots .4 - 4
2 smallest tricams
29 pieces, with 15 slings and one screamer. I have RE Robots 1 - 5, as well, but don't often carry them. On occasion we'll pool gear to have a second set of nuts or carry doubles in cams rather than hexes. I'm the first to admit I don't climb hard, but I'm pretty content with what I carry.
|
|
|
|
|
dlintz
Mar 1, 2007, 3:11 PM
Post #20 of 41
(3078 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 9, 2002
Posts: 1982
|
I think the OP is interested in whether he has a complete enough rack to take just about anywhere.....that doesn't mean he'll take the whole thing up each route.
d.
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Mar 1, 2007, 3:16 PM
Post #21 of 41
(3070 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
dlintz wrote: I think the OP is interested in whether he has a complete enough rack to take just about anywhere.....that doesn't mean he'll take the whole thing up each route. d.
Understood. I said I thought it was good for that purpose (with the exception of places like Indian Creek). You'll have to excuse the rest, which was just my personal rant against buying more gear than you're likely to need.
|
|
|
|
|
brent_e
Mar 1, 2007, 3:41 PM
Post #23 of 41
(3054 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 5111
|
8flood8 wrote: lol ok -- tcu 00, 0, 1,2,2,3,3,4,4 powercams 10, 1 UL powercams 5,6,7,8 c4 1,2,2,3,4 camalot .75 wc tech friend 2.5 i just look at my cams as what they could potentially protect
that looks pretty solid to me. Although you'll likely NEVER carry 20+ cams.
i'd say if you can't climb all over with a rack like that you should sell it all to me for a low low price. 
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Mar 1, 2007, 3:44 PM
Post #24 of 41
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
rockprodigy wrote: You would be far better off worrying about whether or not your skills are complete, than your rack. Thirty years ago people climbed hard stuff with only nuts and slings...they depended on themselves, not gear! Skill will get you up far more climbs than gear will, and as such, nobody could possibly give you a good answer to your question without knowing what your skills are.
Yes, indeedy.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Mar 1, 2007, 4:18 PM
Post #25 of 41
(3026 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
I submit your rack is ALWAYS complete.
You don't go to climb with the rack you want. No,
You go to climb with the rack you have.
As a kid I used to have 'run away' fantasies. No ill feeling toward parents or anything I just wanted adventure. My dream was to move to Alaska and live off the land.
Hours were spent combing Cabelas catalogs and such, building lists of the complete wilderness kit. I wisht Ida kept those lists the laugh would be precious now.
You don't need a list of Cabelas shit to runaway, no. You don't run away with the gear you want. You run away with the gear you have.
Now get to it floody. The Open Road is calling your name. Spending more dough in advance won't change a thing.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Mar 1, 2007, 4:18 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
wanlessrm
Mar 1, 2007, 4:35 PM
Post #26 of 41
(1177 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 333
|
Learn the Monkeys Paw and you'll always have the right gear for any size crack!
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Mar 1, 2007, 4:36 PM
Post #27 of 41
(1177 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
Dingus, you reminded me of the time my twin and I ran away from home. While we were defiant enough to run away, we didn't have the nerve to cross the street without permission. We took a big bag of popcorn and a few toys and played on the sidewalk just around the corner. We eventually decided to go home, only to realize no one knew we'd run away.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Mar 1, 2007, 4:52 PM
Post #28 of 41
(1167 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
markc
When I was 10 I decided to hit the trail. I gathered the gear I had... army pup tent, sleeping bag and the cheap aluminum frame backpack I got at Rockaway Sales somewhere in NE New Jersey. Headed off into the woods and made camp in a big stand of pines near the woods road where we went sledding every winter.
After sitting in camp for a while it dawned on me I had no food. And I'd already started one wild fire so I couldn't summon the nerve to try a camp fire.
Back to the house I went, probably a 1/4 or a 1/2 mile away.
My pop had a pop-up camper and in it was a propane stove bolted to a counter top. I caved into it, debolted the stove and slid it out.
I was in the process of stealing some Campbell's Beef Soup (always loved that beef soup with those little oat thingies in it) out of my mom's cupboard when my eldest sister Christine caught me.
"What are you doing?"
My lies were insufficient as a can of soup was sticking from my pocket. "What is that, SOUP???!!!"
Slowly she interrogated the truth out of me... I was running away but came back for food, haha.
Know what my big sis did? She had me put the soup back, she helped me bolt the stove back in the camper, then we hiked to the pine grove and broke camp. She even carried the back pack for me!
So we put all the stuff back and so far as I know, Christine NEVER told my parents I'd run away that day.
That was the first time. I got much farther on subsequent attempts.
Cheers
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
moof
Mar 1, 2007, 7:01 PM
Post #29 of 41
(1147 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400
|
Done!
Well not really. The problem is that you can never be complete. There will always be some oddball route you run into that call for 4 pink tricams, or want to aid some monster that requires a pile of knifeblades, etc whatever.
Once you have a good base of nuts, small to largish cams, go out and climb. As you find yourself scared away from routes due to lack of gear, buy what you need. A few years back I wanted to jump on Double Cross. The night before I hit the store and grabbed an extra #3 and #3.5 friend so I would have a total of 6 pieces in the #2-#3 camalot range. I plugged everyone of them into that 80' pumpfest.
I since bootied another #2 camalot, and now have 5 pieces of that size. Sure enough, an aid route I want to do calls for about 5 as a minimum. Sheesh.
(This post was edited by moof on Mar 1, 2007, 7:09 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Mar 1, 2007, 7:30 PM
Post #30 of 41
(1137 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
You've gotta be kidding, right? To climb anywhere in the country (again aside from splitterville) you need: 8 cams, 1.5 sets of nuts, two or three tricams, and either a few doubles in mid-size cams or a half set of hexes.
That's it. Why you'd think your rack is not up to snuff is completely beyond me. Though if you really want to spend more, you could pick up a couple ballnutz and/or rps. They're light, and, especially on harder climbs, it's sometimes that or nothing.
To become an all around climber, you need to climb all around.
I dare you to go on a long road trip. Climb all over the place. Have a blast. And just try to haul that whole rack of yours up all your climbs, and do it over and over again for weeks. You'll quickly learn that less is more.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Mar 1, 2007, 7:34 PM
Post #31 of 41
(1132 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
Actually, with the exception of some hooks and smaller gear, you've got a pretty sweet aid rack there, buddy. Bigger than mine.
Sheesh.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Mar 1, 2007, 7:42 PM
Post #32 of 41
(1125 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
heheh
so are you calling me a gear whore?
i must admit to the charges.
I definitely agree i am not going to be carrying every piece up every route.
I was asking for opinions on how close to "complete" everyone else thinks this rack is. To me, the responses have told me pretty much what i have been thinking to myself.
my rack is mostly complete... its time to climb! hehe
i'll probably buy a c4 #5 and a #6 and then climb until i find that i "NEED" another piece of gear.
Thanks again for the discussions!
So here is my plan... i'm gonna dog my way up every 8 in sight and then start aiding harder shit until i can climb it :)
thanks again !!
ROCK ON
|
|
|
|
|
moof
Mar 1, 2007, 8:31 PM
Post #33 of 41
(1115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400
|
I'd hold off on the #6 till you really have a route to go with it. My #5 finds lots of use, but the #6 has probably averaged about 2 pitches a year that it was placed on, and I'm a bit of a chimney hor.
|
|
|
|
|
hosh
Mar 1, 2007, 9:48 PM
Post #34 of 41
(1102 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 1662
|
I'm no doctor, but I think you may all be suffering from "Dysphoric Social Attention Consumption Deficit Anxiety Disorder." This condition (DSACDAD) May be treated, but it may require medication. But there's hepl! http://www.havidol may be able to offer some hope for us all...
hosh.
|
|
|
|
|
dr_feelgood
Mar 1, 2007, 10:45 PM
Post #35 of 41
(1085 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
|
I've got most of you out gearwhored...
suckers
|
|
|
|
|
nedsurf
Mar 1, 2007, 10:57 PM
Post #36 of 41
(1080 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2004
Posts: 387
|
Tyler Durden: F*** off with your sofa units and strine green stripe patterns, I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say let... lets evolve, let the chips fall where they may.
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Mar 5, 2007, 9:19 AM
Post #38 of 41
(1035 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
there is a climb at enchanted rock, called jackknife (2nd pitch is cave crack) that takes the number 6. it will get used, but what i didn't mention
i've been selling my first rack off to buy newer cooler toys.
so its not like i'm digging deep. I like climbing and i like gear. it doesnt just stop at cams :P
|
|
|
|
|
dr_feelgood
Mar 5, 2007, 1:58 PM
Post #39 of 41
(1027 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
|
8flood8 wrote: there is a climb at enchanted rock, called jackknife (2nd pitch is cave crack) that takes the number 6. it will get used, but what i didn't mention i've been selling my first rack off to buy newer cooler toys. so its not like i'm digging deep. I like climbing and i like gear. it doesnt just stop at cams :P
|
|
|
|
|
sky7high
Mar 5, 2007, 6:13 PM
Post #40 of 41
(1005 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 15, 2006
Posts: 478
|
If you wanted your rack to bew complete, you would need to know all the routes in the US and the specific pieces they will take, since that's not possible, I'd say I would go climbing with your rack anytime, Actually, there's routes that only require a set of stoppers, unless of course you are planning to do some aid climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Mar 8, 2007, 7:30 AM
Post #41 of 41
(977 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
inevitably
|
|
|
|
|
|
