May 21, 2007, 6:47 PM
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correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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I wanted to start this thread because there are always tons of questions popping up about "how big should my rack be?"
The purpose of this thread is to correlate the level of your leading to how much gear you carry and where you climb, IN GENERAL.
Obviously there will be differences due to route considerations, specialty pieces, if you are leading harder than what you've ever led before, etc. This is about correlating climbing level to the average rack that you carry on multipitch routes.
After answering the poll, please post according to the following format:
General level of leading trad:
Hardest trad lead:
Typical length of pitches in your area:
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack:
May 21, 2007, 6:49 PM
Post #2 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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I'll go first!
General Level of leading trad: 5.10
Hardest trad lead: 5.11a
Length of routes: 35 meter length pitches are common.
Gear: (26 pieces of pro) 11 cams: 1 full set metolius cams 00-8 plus the small supercam 10 nuts: 1 full set nuts 3 tricams: .5-1.5 2 hexes: WC #9, BD #6 12 trad draws (2 of which are double runners run through the biner 2x) 2 double runners with 4 lockers
May 21, 2007, 7:16 PM
Post #3 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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I selected 2 dozen, but I think I'm actually just over, though it varies somewhat. The rack I pack most days is 28 pieces. That's 18 cams and ten nuts. I only carry around six runners, because most of my cams are pre-slung at 18". I don't carry all of it everytime unless I'm feeling a little stressed about the lead. And if I'm redpointing, I whittle 'er down to the bare minimum, which, obviously, varies according to the route.
But isn't this kinda geographically dependent, too?
(Oops, forgot a few things. The New is almost entirely single pitch, with most being in the 20-30m range. I start to sweat bullets somewhere around mid 5.10 and have sent up to 11c.)
(This post was edited by j_ung on May 21, 2007, 7:21 PM)
May 21, 2007, 7:18 PM
Post #4 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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Hmmm, I wouldn't have considered runners and trad draws as "pro."
I've only been leading for a couple of years, so I'm usually carrying a lot more than I need, but it depends on the area. If I'm at a place like Stone Mountain where there's a lot of runout routes, I'll pare my rack drastically.
So here's my stats:
General trad lead level: 5.8 Hardest lead: 5.9 Route length: typically 100' or more Gear: (30, not counting runners and draws) 14 cams: Camalots .3 - 2 (doubles of #1, #2); Metolius #3 -7; Aliens 1 each blue, green Full set of 10 Wallnuts 6 tricams: .5 - 3 (doubles in pink, red)
This is pretty much my standard rack; I'll add bigger and/or smaller cams when I think I'll need them.
May 21, 2007, 7:19 PM
Post #5 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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I feel i sew up the hard bits and run out the easy bits.
General level of leading trad: been onsigting into the mid 5.10's lately.
Hardest trad lead: 5.9
Typical length of pitches in your area:20-60m. Lots around ~30.
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack:
1-2 sets of cams from tiny to fist or off-fist (doubles in fingers through hands or cupped hands). 1-2 sets of nuts (including some micros and some biggish ones). Half that for easier stuff or slaby routes with some bolts. 10-12 trad draws. Cordellet, prussic, lockers nut-tool. Hexes and tricams only when teaching, big cams when needed.
May 21, 2007, 8:20 PM
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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Trad lead varies on fitness & headspace, I lead (not necessarily onsight) .10+
Number of pieces: 26ish 14 cams 12 nuts
pitch length: generally 100-140ish. (EDIT: often try to link pitches into 180-200')
general disclaimer about leaving stuff on the ground, yadda yadda. I typically will bring all that on a multipitch though, maybe even a couple extra cams for belays and a mental security blankie. I have felt myself hosed by faulty guidebook rack listings more than one time.
I'm also one of those dudes who doesn't mind showing up at a belay with 10 or even 15 pieces still on my rack. But I know some guys who hate that!
(This post was edited by caughtinside on May 21, 2007, 8:22 PM)
May 21, 2007, 8:42 PM
Post #8 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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General level of leading trad: Pretty solid to 5.9+ of any kind, unless it's rotten unprotectable rock.
Hardest trad lead: Hardest onsight: 5.11b/c
Typical length of pitches in your area: I mean, the typical pitch at the Gunks is 80-120 feet, while some routes on Cannon have pitches that typically check in at more like 140-180 feet per pitch.
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack: Geez, it really varies, mostly on the length of the pitches. Then there's the size of the crack. If it's a small crack, I'll take mostly stoppers, and a few small to mid-size cams. Where if it's a big crack, I might have no choice but to load up on double size 3, 3 1/2, 4 Camalots! Plus the smaller gear for when i can find side cracks.
With all that said. My medium rack for the Gunks: 3 tricams, lots of stoppers, one set of cams from black Alien through #3 Camalot (9-10 cams), and sometimes a set of hexes to double for the big cams. Then I can add or subtract from that.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on May 21, 2007, 8:56 PM)
May 21, 2007, 9:00 PM
Post #10 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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I'm gonna say around 2 dozen pieces of pro for Vedauwoo, where there's maybe a dozen truly multipitch routes, and most pitches are under 30m. Around 15 or so pieces when I'm climbing in the Snowies, where everything is multipitch and the average pitch is a full 60m.
And both for routes around 5.7/5.8, with occasional 5.10 moves thrown in for good measure.
To clarify, that's a single set of nuts in each case (dropping the largest nuts when in the Snowies) and a full set of cams from tips to big fists for Vedauwoo, and a half set of cams from fingers to tight hands in the Snowies.
And this is for onsight purposes. If I know more about a route, I'll leave a lot of things behind (eg small gear gets left behind unless I know I can use it on an offwidth, or the hands stuff gets left behind if I'm on a finger crack that won't use the big stuff for an anchor).
May 21, 2007, 9:24 PM
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Re: [saxfiend] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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Sax- He he, whoops, looks like I did; my bad :D
And the rest of you guys: you beginners can put up your numbers too! I was hoping for this to be a "safe" thread where everyone can post what they use and what levels they climb at. Maybe it will help people see a correlation of beginners with larger racks, or less cams, or whatever, but just post your stuff. This is not a "5.10 or harder only" club thread; it's for beginners too!
Post away you 5.7 trad leaders; there is nothing to be embarrassed about: it's a poll!
And to everyone who's posted already, thanks for taking the time to vote and taking the time to write up your "standard" racks and info about your skill level and where you climb! Kudos to all of you!
May 21, 2007, 9:34 PM
Post #12 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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General level of leading trad: 5.10a-b Hardest trad lead: 5.11d Typical length of pitches in your area: Full Pitch 50+ meters 10 or more pitches per route (Yosemite) Gear: Yosemite requires a rather large rack (for me). I generally climb with a double set of nuts and a set of Camalots (0.5 to 3.5) with doubles depending on the size of the cracks. If the anchors are on gear I double up on all the cams.
If i know the route well, I can usually whittle the rack down to a double set of nuts and a few cams.
May 21, 2007, 9:38 PM
Post #13 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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General level of leading trad: Pretty comfortable in the 5.7-5.7+'s @ Seneca. I'm trying to break into the 5.8's there this year, and maybe snag a 9 or two
Hardest trad lead: Meh... made it up a 5.9 once. Not an onsite, and not at Seneca.
Typical length of pitches in your area: Anywhere from 60ish to 120+ish @ Seneca depending on whether or not I'm linking pitches or not, and whether I'm on nOOb duty or not.
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack: The rack is in re-build-mode since Alien-gate. Right now, I'm climbing on C4's .4 through 4, doubled in 1 and 2. 1-4 TCUs, and no. 1 and 2 C3s. gonna get either the rest of the C3s or 0 and 00 TCU (or both... depends on $ and how much I like these C3s I'm trying out). So That's 15 cams right now, usually 17 or 18. I certainly don't carry all of that on every route. Like others have mentioned, depends on how much I know about the route. I'm certainly not one of those badasses you see w/ 4 nuts, 3 cams and a couple of draws hanging off their 2 ounce harness. #4 C4 makes me feel warm and fuzzy, but it spends more time in the pack than on the rack.
I carry the smallest three Tri-cams, but I think I'm gonna complement them w/ that 4 pack of new ones that's out now, as I'll be climbing the Gunks for the next 4 years (school).
Used to carry a double set of nuts, now carry only one set of BD stoppers 1-13 . I'd like to compliment it w/ a coupule of the remade HB offsets in the midsizes when they come out. I don't climb hard enough to have a serious need for micronuts yet, but I'll probably snag some in the future.
Carried the biggest 5 BD hexes for a half dozen trips or so to supplement before I realized I didn't really need them, and they were extra weight that I could lose. So.... I gues that probably puts me somewhere between a couple dozen and over thirty depending on the route. For poll purposes, I checked the latter, as I'm new enough that I still like to bring some "mental security blanket gear" more often than not (thx caughtinside). Add a dozen or so trad draws to that in addition to the usual misc. gear. Right now I'm in "how light can I get my rack mode". It's not necessary, but If I can make it better, why not?
(This post was edited by bobruef on May 21, 2007, 9:52 PM)
May 21, 2007, 9:53 PM
Post #14 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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I'm a seamstress! Assuming I am leading a route around my general level, and I don't know exactly what gear I will need ahead of time anyway...
General level=low to mid 5.10 Hardest trad lead=5.10d(clean)...5.11a(hangdog) Typical length=20-30m "Standard" rack=full set of nuts, set of cams (10-12), random tri-cams, lowe-balls, etc
May 21, 2007, 9:54 PM
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Re: [bobruef] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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Leading 5.7 - 5.8 right now.
Usual rack I have 12 Draws (most trad draws) Set of Nuts... with doubles from 6 - 12 Tri Cams Pink - Blue Hexes. Cams (right now .75, 1, and 3. Though with every pay cheque the #'s grow) Various such as Nut tool, Slings etc
Not massivoe yet, but partner also has gear which we mix (affordable climbing ) Gotta lova pay cheques... = bigger rack..
May 21, 2007, 10:03 PM
Post #16 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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General level of leading trad: 5.10ish
Hardest trad lead: .11b, i think.
Typical length of pitches in your area: varies widely, but generally 120' or so.
Gear: green, red, yellow C3s, one each grey through grey C4s, one each, occasionally doubled in green and purple (bad sizes) set of nuts.
thats like...20 plus 2 or 3 depending on the day. i would also not say that i like to run it out, although i do tend to place gear 10-20' apart, but certainly more often just before and just after cruxes.
(This post was edited by vegastradguy on May 22, 2007, 1:31 AM)
May 21, 2007, 11:10 PM
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Re: [vegastradguy] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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Average Trad Lead - 0% success rate onsighting 12+. 50% success rate onsighting 12b/c, 80% success rate onsighting 12a, 98% success rate onsighting mid 11. This season, it's probably abnormally high due to some neat things that have come together for me.
It all depends on the route, I climb routes varrying from 35 to 2000 feet. In general, I keep my rack light.
8-10 two foot runner draws Green alien, 2 yellow, 2 red, 1 orange, one purple, one clear. 3, 3.5, and 4 friend. Set of nuts.
Anything else is brought in special consideration of the route.
May 21, 2007, 11:26 PM
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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kind of a weird Q it is like rating, its all about you and all bull shit. n WA all you need us usually a double rack from 00 to 3-3.5 in utah you need a LOT I have 76 cams 4 sets of nutz and constantly re-arranging my rack according to rack usual rack i leave the ground with can be between 7 to 27 cams routes range from 60 to 165 feet in veadauwoo you need completely different rack needless to say so just buy a lot of cams and get a lot of the size thats hard for you like bd .75 and if you have to ask HOW many cams do i need you should probably keep to quick draws! just kiddin!! all in all your rack should be HUGE!!!!!! unless your climbing with the brits im no help happy climbing
May 21, 2007, 11:31 PM
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Re: [angry] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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Trad Noob. Second season. on an average for a routes height I'd guess between 45'- 400'
Trad rack- Tri-Cams Pink through blue. Cams- 0.75- 2 C4's. 5-7 Trango Flex Cams, Metolious Power Cams 2-4 and a set and a half of nuts minus the larger and micro sizes. this is for an average day of climbing 1-2 Pitch routes. I sometimes break out the big guns(4.5-5 C4's) if I feel it may pertain to the route.
May 21, 2007, 11:38 PM
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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General level of leading trad: 9 or 10
Hardest trad lead: 11b
Typical length of pitches in your area: 80-120ft
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack: Cams: #00,0,1,2 c3s #.4,.5,.5,.75 c4s (bootied one of the .5s) #1,2,2,3 Max Cams #1 link cam
Nuts: bunch of nuts, the only ones that aren't bootied are size 3-7 bds. probably a 10 bd with four or five wierd ones thrown in.
Other: 4 trad draws 6 sport draws 2 four foot slings (trippled twice each for multi) maybe a pink tricam
May 21, 2007, 11:43 PM
Post #21 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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I live in Maine and have climbed mostly at Acadia, Camden, North Conway, and Cannon. Routes are typically 80-120 feet except Cannon. I climbed a lot of 5.8s and 9s on the following:
2 RP nuts (2 and 3) 4 Astro Nuts (7-10) 5 Wallnuts (4-8) 4 tricams (1 pink, 2 red, 1 brown) (more versatile than large nuts and cover the same range) 4 TCUs (blue-red) 3-4 C4s (.75-2 or 3)
with 5-6 draws and 3 to 5 shoulder length slings
My hardest lead was a 40 foot 11d which I took double small nuts and two cams on (only used one but wasn't sure of size from ground).
Lately I have been climbing more 10s and bring a yellow and a red alien. For clean aid I'll add a 00 and 0 TCU and another set of nuts up to #10 stopper, as well as cam hooks.
(This post was edited by bkalaska on May 21, 2007, 11:50 PM)
May 21, 2007, 11:58 PM
Post #22 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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General level of leading trad: 5.8
Hardest trad lead: 5.10b (I thought it was a 5.7)
Typical length of pitches in your area: Anywhere between 25 to 90 feet in Connecticut and typical gunks pitches sometimes linked (up to about 180 feet) Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack: my "onsight rack" trango brassies and BD micronuts (the four rated for free climbing) aliens blue-red camalots .75-3 BD stoppers 4-13 some doubles (maybe a #7 and a #5 and a #1 hex I found) pink and red tricam hb alum offsets
I will bring a bigger cam (#4 or #5) if things get wide, or more tricams if I feel like it.
I tend to place alot, but I also backclean alot too.
May 22, 2007, 1:06 AM
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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General level of leading 5.10+
Hardest trad lead 5.11d
Typical length of pitches in your area 45m
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack:
I carry only cams and stoppers for pro. I don't waste my time with hexes, tri cams etc... I climb on Sierra granite mostly ranging from single pitch to 20+ pitches. A multi pitch route will typically require Double cams from .5 - 3" and one set of nuts including one set of Peenuts. If it's single pitch it depends. I've carried as few as 5 pieces of pro. Actually, on multi pitch routes, I view all pitches as they are.....single pitches. I will not carry every single piece of gear on every single pitch. If the pitch is thin, I won't hesitate to leave the larger crap with my second or visa versa. Also, if its an easy pitch, I'll drastically downsize my load. Remember, multi pitch routes are only single pitch routes stacked on top of one another.
May 22, 2007, 1:30 AM
Post #25 of 81
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Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
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Usually carry a single set of cams, 1-5 flexcams. A sinlge set of nuts, with doubles in certain sizes. usally some hexes. maybe a full set of hexes, and some tri-cams if the route really needs it. I lead at about 5.10, hardest lead at 5.11a. pitches usually between 30-60 meters.
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