I dont understand the fascination with trad cragging. I really dont.

It keeps you very far from climbing at your physical limit. Whether its the fear of hurting yourself like Dan's talking about, or just the fiddling with gear while youre on the route... I cannot understand why people become so psyched on it and it becomes such a part of their identity.

Climbing long trad multi-pitch routes is a different story I suppose...

Can someone please explain the allure to me?

Nope, style has nothing to do with it. Bolts = sport climbing, gear = trad climbing. Bachar / yerian is a sport climb.

I would thus encourage all of you 5.11 sport climbers to go out and give it a shot.

No, I havent. Whats going down on the Snowshed Wall?

Is that your stomping ground or something? Do tell us about your sick sends over there...

so how does the quoted "%5" of "good looking gear pullouts (read failure)" bide with you?

Its perhaps the strangest cliff in all the Californias. It is a pitch tall but is both bottomless and topless!

[img]http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7747/donner15dt.jpg[/img]

Go figger!

DMT

Canadian fella jumped on a 5.10 crack at Smith a few years back. Started hanging and dawging right away. Fell on his 3rd piece, and twice on his 5th piece or so, climbed up and put in a few more, fell and ripped them all out, including the one he had fallen (successfully) twice on.

Died right there. No more climbing. Or anything.

I see stuff like that and I say yes.

But, you can push your limits while trad climbing, safely. You need to build a level of experience and skill, then push yourself when the route can be climbed safely. For a climb to be safe, you need good gear, the ability to climb the "unsafe" territory" without falling, clean falls if your going to fall, or other factors. In the case of Smith Rock, that guy shouldn't have been pushing himself on that rock. I lead a few trad lines there, and the rock quality is complete crap for trad climbing (at least relative to what I'm used to).

Granted there is a committee, but i don't know who is on it now.... and the only way that i voted in the last election was by submitting a list with names crossed off (not all of them) on the ballot, indicating that i did not want certain people to receive a vote.

What a sad day for climbing (the fractures are multiplyingt!). I know the cure....

GROUP HUG!!!111

DMT

now then i'm up here in hawaii right now... i got on the "warm up climb" here on the north shore at mokuleia it was an 5.8+...

i was looking down at the bolt about 4 feet below me around the arete and i could see my quick draw kind of banging on the edge... the next bolt was out of my reach and i just sat on my toes (they were burning) for about 6 minutes, trying to figure out how my escape route could not involve falling on that freaky little bolt below me...

later in the day i was thinking... maybe i just don't fall enough (but i think i was wrong ... there's no need to fall!)

Almost every time I climb, I take a lead fall because I try to lead at or above my limit so I can get better.

I don’t understand the fascination with trad cragging. I really dont.

It keeps you very far from climbing at your physical limit. Whether its the fear of hurting yourself like Dan's talking about, or just the fiddling with gear while youre on the route... I cannot understand why people become so psyched on it and it becomes such a part of their identity.

Climbing long trad multi-pitch routes is a different story I suppose...

Can someone please explain the allure to me?

Sometimes you do things just for enjoyment. I like to go out for a jog on a Sunday morning,. I don’t do it to get anywhere in particular but rather for enjoyment, if it was all about getting somewhere quickly I could drive the same distance in a fraction of the time.

Do you ever climb that 5.8 you're lecturing about? Not just to string a top rope for some friends - I mean do you slow down enough from your relentless improvement schedule to actually ENJOY the skills you have on a route that is perhaps easy for you... just for fun?

Why? What's the goal in getting better?

Consider a marathoner - does she have to run 26 miles every time out?

Does she afford herself a pleasant Sunday morning jog? A hike with the kids?

I'm still fascinated by the 'must get better' performance focus of a lot of climbers (most?).

Do you ever climb that 5.8 you're lecturing about? Not just to string a top rope for some friends - I mean do you slow down enough from your relentless improvement schedule to actually ENJOY the skills you have on a route that is perhaps easy for you... just for fun?

Or is your improvement the sort that requires dogged determination, few smiles and lots of suffering?

Cause it takes ALL KINDS, I've larnt.

DMT

When I start out climbing in the morning I jump right on my 5.12 project on lead. No warm up...

Ok let me rephrase, every time I lead a route that is at or above my limit, I fall. I don’t fall on 5.10's much anymore and most of the 11's I got down.

If I am not falling it means the climb is below my limit. If I never raise the bar I will never climb harder. Yes I could become stronger by climbing 5.10 but I could never become better. Every grade has a new set of techniques the climber needs to master. If I rarely climb above 5.11 I will never climb 5.12 for I will never learn the technique needed to climb 12’s.