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natec
Oct 20, 2002, 5:18 PM
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Carla,
The only thing you did wrong was put yourself at the hands of a bunch of angry feminists who have nothing better to complain about.
The call themselves climbers but I wonder how many of them are Access Fund Members, do crag clean ups, or are working towards keeping crags opened?
Since the opening of the ladies room, the general tone of this site has been towards tiptoeing around the women and making sure we let them know that they are "empowered."
You simply played in the wrong field.
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cedk
Oct 21, 2002, 7:31 PM
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CARLA!!! Don't let the puritanical prudes win!! PUT IT BACK UP.
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climberchic
Oct 21, 2002, 8:07 PM
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Again,
She posting a demeaning site towards women, then portrayed them as athletes (climbers specifically) to a community that INCLUDES female climbers (get over it natec~you will never have an all male site) and asked their opinions.
What in the world did you expect?? Praise? Maybe a "Hey, great site! I feel so much better about myself as a women and know that this will not be taken seriously by anyone as a portrayal of real female athletes"?
Give me a break. She asked, we told, end of story. My understanding is that she wanted feedback. Well, she got it.
Regardless of what us "feminists" said, that "business" would have never lasted given the fact that she got so offended by comments made on a rock climbing forum that she was not an active member of.
And if being a feminist means being proud of being an active, strong, independent woman that DID NOT use her sexuality to get where she was (believe it natec~it happens), then you're right. You'll find we all had the same reaction to the site by similar women throughout this thread.
But what is this? You'll also find the strong men who are proud of their masculinity and therefore are not afraid or intimidated by proud women throughout this thread as well? What in the should we call them, since we are throwing labels around.
Personally, I really don't care what you label us. It's obvious you are scared or intimidated by the lot of us. We are an independent and noble group.
~Erica
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lox
Oct 22, 2002, 3:00 AM
Post #104 of 122
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You are a conniving and selfrighteous group.
That's what you are.
Carla is a real athlete and it's an assumption on YOUR part that she's not.
I climb with several girls who are athletic, wear bikini style tops to climb and enjoyed this site.
If you took time off your high horse of moral outrage, you migh thave some fun and climb harded.
Sheesh!
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climbsomething
Oct 22, 2002, 3:28 AM
Post #105 of 122
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Erica already said much of what I would have said.
But in addition,
Nate, with all due respect, we're not the angry ones. That sounds more like you.
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galt
Oct 22, 2002, 5:31 AM
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Didn't want to be the only person on RockClimbing.com not to have a comment posted in this forum. (Why did we complain about a site with a bunch of chicks... er... respectible young ladies... in skimpy clothes?)
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froggy
Oct 22, 2002, 5:51 PM
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Good reply Erica! I totally agree
... and galt I don't think women are considered respectible if they are wearing no clothing.
This is so twisted..
~Late.
Oh... and natec what would be the right field? A bunch of horny slobbering men?
[ This Message was edited by: froggy on 2002-10-22 10:54 ]
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billcoe_
Oct 22, 2002, 6:39 PM
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I would suggest everybody click on the link. It has been changed and is no longer what you are all spewing about. Now it is humorus and no less controversial.
If I could weigh in, staight guys like to see young hotties in skimpy clothes. I think we may be hardwired this way. Nothing to get upset over, pretty necked (or near necked) women look good, and even most women agree with that. Any woman who feels otherwise is welcome to buy and wear a Burqua and move to the middle east, asia or Africa to find enlightenment.
Good luck:
But click the link again before you flame me: Funny stuff.
Bill
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cloudbreak
Oct 22, 2002, 6:53 PM
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billcoe's right.....click on the link now.....that's some funny shit!!!!
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mother_sheep
Oct 22, 2002, 6:54 PM
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That is GREAT!!! How funny!
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stonejunkie
Oct 22, 2002, 7:05 PM
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Here here Fleadawg
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climbchick
Oct 22, 2002, 7:14 PM
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Erica is hardly "pushing her morals" on anyone -- what you're forgetting is that Carla came here and asked us for our opinions . . which we all gave. I'm amazed that she took the site down just because we thought it was lame, but nobody forced her to do that.
Anyway, it's not "pushing your morals" unless you give your opinions without being invited to do so.
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climberchic
Oct 22, 2002, 7:30 PM
Post #113 of 122
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lessons in futility...
moving on.
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climbsomething
Oct 22, 2002, 8:05 PM
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Saving face with humor is a MOST COMMENDABLE method that I applaud heartily! Funny stuff!!
Now, I stand by my comment that bikiniathletes.com, in its orginal incarnation, was lame. The site did not hurt my fragile grrl feelings or make me feel repressed (or is it oppressed?), but it was still really dumb. Carla came to a group of climbers and asked for opinions, "good or bad, I can take it," so we gave them. That she took down the site was her own choice. I don't believe anybody here made her do it.
If I am Puritanical for not endorsing bikiniathletes.com as a great, realistic resource for woman athletes, then so be it. Take away my electricity andindoorplumbing and give me a hunka-hunka burnin' Jebediah...
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josher
Oct 22, 2002, 8:20 PM
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Quote:If I am Puritanical for not endorsing bikiniathletes.com as a great, realistic resource for woman athletes, then so be it.
I dont really think this site was intended to be that, at all. Eye candy. There are a few sites showing nude male climbers that arnt for technical climbing instruction....just fun....Relax damn it
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climbchick
Oct 22, 2002, 8:20 PM
Post #116 of 122
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hey fleadawg, I didn't lock that thread so I can't offer you any explanation for that. However, it has since been UNlocked and moved to Community since people apparently want to continue debating this whole issue. Maybe you or someone else can make some kind of valid point there to support your stance, (whatever it may be?), without having to resort to name-calling.
I think that this is the first time in my life that I've ever been accused of being a "puritanical prude" but the people who are saying that would have to actually know me to grasp the true hilarity of such a statement
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taorock
Oct 22, 2002, 8:35 PM
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Guess I'll step into this mess, because those of you dissing the women posters on this thread crack me up. (Maybe you're right Erica,about this being futile. Hope not.)
I understand the essence of the opinion expressed by climberchic et. al. to be that they don't appreciate the bikini website attempt to commoditize the female form via climbing. I would expect that a similar reaction would be forthcoming from most male climbers if there were frequent and numerous media references implying the notion that all real climbers were like Stallone in Cliffhanger.
In other words, these women are asking to be treated as individuals and not to be lumped into some bikini clad commercial. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I believe that the wonderful thing about climbing is that the power of the individual is at the center of it all, not some cheap characterization of groupthink.
Any lockouts here, have seemed to me, to be more relief from mindless expression of frustration, anger and chest pounding (with the ugly intent, conscious or not, to destroy civil discourse).
Give it a rest and go climb a rock before you blow a cork.
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natec
Oct 23, 2002, 5:26 PM
Post #118 of 122
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To all...You are damn right I'm angry. (Please see the angry whit male forum and stop stating the obvious.)
Erica, why are you allowed to have your opinions but I cannot have mine. I am not offended that you find society male dominated and oppressive. I'm offended that you don't feel I am entitled to my opinion. My opinion is that you are angry about the few oppressors and want to lump anyone with a penis into that category. I'm VERY angry about it. I never had to read these issues on RC.com before you got your forum started and now they are in about every 5th topic. It's in my face constantly and its largely your fault. There's my anger.
I harbor no ill feelings towards you as a person and my doors will ALWAYS be open to you and your husband as I have offered before.
Hillary, you are very well adjusted in your attitude.
For the record, I find that the site was extremely lame. Surprised? Maybe that's because too many of you are quick to judge me as anti-woman (don't know the pc term for it these days).
I'm tired of reading all of the bull crap that's all. I don't want an all male site, an all male forum or anything else all male.
I want to go back to the days of not so long ago where I didn't have to ready about the plight of the modern woman in the majority of the posts. I want to go back to when it was acceptable for me to post in any forum without knowing that someone was going to judge the merit of the content of my post and keep it or delete it by the judgement of their personal feelings.
If Carla and the models on that site were doing what they wanted to do, who are you to berate them. A simple, "I think bikini climbing chicks are lame." would have done. I would like you all to realize that women are free to behave anyway the would like with their femininity. If they would like to pose in bikinis they have every right to do so, just as you have every right not to.
Hillary and Erica, I invite both of you to please sit down and talk to me about the way I feel. I have been trying to get your attention with several posts. You are very quick to judge and very slow to understand.
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lilred
Oct 23, 2002, 6:39 PM
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leaverbiner
Oct 23, 2002, 6:57 PM
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I'm not going to get into all the topics already raised, because as Lilred put it - Beating a dead horse . . .simply I agree, totally absurd site, but, I had to comment on one ting - Lilred you posted some photos in response . . . some noteworthy, but, how the hell could you put the cover shot of Laurn Lee on there as an example in response to this site? I know Lauren climbs hard and is attractive, in fact I have seen a number of quality photos taken of her that show off both of these features . . but christ that photo is so staged, and so rediculous as are most of the photos put in the calendar . . . I'm surprised she isn't wearing a bikin to go along with her make up perfectly done hair etc . . . Sorry to bust but, I saw the calendar in a gear shop and nearly threw it across the room for the same reasons people were pissed off by carla's site . . . half if not more of the photos are total T&A shots, granted most are of accomplished climbers, but that's no excuse for the sellout "look at me only because I'm hot" bullshit. Sorry, just had to vent for a moment.
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climberchic
Oct 23, 2002, 7:27 PM
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Ok...I have to pull a jt512 on this one.
Quote:Erica, why are you allowed to have your opinions but I cannot have mine. I'm offended that you don't feel I am entitled to my opinion.
Where exactly did I even hint at this? You made some pretty outrageous statements and I responded.
Quote:I am not offended that you find society male dominated and oppressive.
Again, where have I ever said this or even hinted at the notion? I've never felt oppressed by males, but then again, I'm used to kicking doors down. And I've never said or do I even think that males dominate the society. I HAVE said that this is a male-dominated sport, which I have found no objections to. It is not a derogatory statement, but fact.
Quote: My opinion is that you are angry about the few oppressors and want to lump anyone with a penis into that category. I'm VERY angry about it.
What in the world are you talking about? I started that forum to unite women and offer a female perspective without a bunch of trolling which can, and has happened in the other forums when a female-related issue is brought up. That forum is not anti-male. It's pro-female, which means "in support of women" not "let's get those female-hating man nazis".
Quote:
I never had to read these issues on RC.com before you got your forum started and now they are in about every 5th topic. It's in my face constantly and its largely your fault. There's my anger.
You seem to have real issues with that forum that I think you need to work out elsewhere. I really think it goes far beyond some measly internet forums. I'd like some examples of how that forum has caused these drastic so-called changes to your life on this site.
Quote:I want to go back to the days of not so long ago where I didn't have to ready about the plight of the modern woman in the majority of the posts.
Another idea? How about stop constantly reading the Ladies Room threads and then it won't be in your face anymore.
Voila! Problem solved.
Now where else do we get in your face exactly? Maybe community? It's largely unmoderated, so I'd suggest hanging out in the other climbing-related forums. I don't see where these female-related issues would come up on a regular basis there. Unless you just don't want to see the women, period. And there, I can't help ya.
Quote:I want to go back to when it was acceptable for me to post in any forum without knowing that someone was going to judge the merit of the content of my post and keep it or delete it by the judgement of their personal feelings.
When and what posts of yours were deleted?
Your rant has too many holes, no supporting evidence, and a whole lot of bitter, clouded, judgements. And maybe it's just my perception, but a lot of them seem to be towards me. So instead of continuing this on in public, I suggest we discuss it in private. I still maintain that you're a great guy, and like you said, I harbor no ill will. I know that you've been through a lot of crap. lately and that's the only thing I can think of that would make you so bitter. I can't help you with that, but I can try to resolve this little conflict between us.
What do you say, Nate? Truce until we can discuss it privately?
~Erica
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nonetooserious
Oct 23, 2002, 10:57 PM
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As serious a business as rock climbing is, I think this unfairly maligned site (www.bikiniathletes.com) is fun and sexy. It takes the sport seriously, but does so with panache (look it up!). So they're in bikinis, big deal.
It's just a website for crying out loud!
Some of you should lighten up, and try to enjoy yourselves when you're NOT on a rock.
N2S
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