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notapplicable
Jan 26, 2008, 10:08 PM
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mattleaf wrote: I was reluctant to answer the helmet question for this reason. I avoided it the first few times it came up. It does no good for us to try to find any "blame"
You really shouldnt be. This forum serves two purposes. One is so that people can openly express their emotions about the accident and offer respect, well wishes and condolences.
The other purpose is accident analysis and in cases like this its not about assigning blame. There is none, its just an unfortunate accident and the presence of a helmet (or lack there of) is a part of understanding how events unfolded and why the injuries are, what they are.
Those are (as they say) the facts of the case. Nothing to hide or be embarrassed about.
Neoamhas - Grow up. This is not the place for that.
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neoamhas
Jan 27, 2008, 12:10 AM
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it was a non sequitur to illustrate my feelings about elementary conclusions concerning my friends accident. this "case" involves an amazing woman, and your analysis of the obvious brings nothing useful to the table.
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ja1484
Jan 27, 2008, 12:28 AM
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starkcontrast wrote: as if wearing a helmet should make others more sympathetic to her pending condition. as a friend of sarah's and a climber of 17 years i still find that questions like this make me sick. we can be so heartless and judgemental at times. in your last traffic accident were you using a cell phone, eating, changing the radio station, or looking at that hot jogger on the sidewalk-who cares! sarah is rad and the fact that she was not wearing a helmet should not belittle the fact that she is hurt. my thoughts are with her, and i look forward to seeing her fully recover so i can tease her about climbing on north east choss.
I think you need to take a deep breath and re-read a few sections of the thread. No one's assigning blame, and no one's calling the injured a bad person for not wearing a helmet.
What we are doing is calling attention to the fact that oftentimes helmets can prevent injury or save lives. I arguably started the whole helmet business with my original post, which you can note in the details:
ja1484 wrote: Firstly, here's hoping for a speedy recovery. Secondly, I have to ask, was there a helmet involved? Wear your helmets folks, even belaying. It's unfortunate that situations like these have to serve as reminders in that regard.
Does not assign any blame, and actually laments the fact that a thread about someone receiving a head injury by rockfall (or at all, for that matter) is the type of event where a reminder of the usefulness of a helmet is the so-called elephant in the room.
Again, no one's blaming anyone here or criticizing anyone's ability or judgment. We're trying to grasp a better understanding of how and why this accident occurred, and what we can do to stack the odds in our favor in similar situations down the line. That's all.
I understand you might be a little upset because a friend is injured, and I certainly can't blame you for that - but no one's after her hide here, so ease up on the trigger a bit. We're all hungry for information, that's all.
neoamhas wrote: it was a non sequitur to illustrate my feelings about elementary conclusions concerning my friends accident. this "case" involves an amazing woman, and your analysis of the obvious brings nothing useful to the table.
I almost want to rise to this, but I think it'll muddle the issue away from the important things here by bringing an unnecessary conflict into the issue.
I'll just state that there are a lot of people with genuine concern in this forum who are also trying to determine what good may come of this dismaying event, even if that means learning from someone else's ill fortunes.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on Jan 27, 2008, 12:34 AM)
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desertwanderer81
Jan 27, 2008, 5:42 AM
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I know I for one will think twice about puting on the old brain bucket even when I am not trad climbing (I always wear it while climbing trad). Maybe not everytime, but if there is even the chance of rockfall, I will definately be puting it on.
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notapplicable
Jan 27, 2008, 2:42 PM
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neoamhas wrote: it was a non sequitur to illustrate my feelings about elementary conclusions concerning my friends accident. this "case" involves an amazing woman, and your analysis of the obvious brings nothing useful to the table.
I disagree about the relivance of the issue but as I said, I am very sorry to hear about your friends injuries.
How's her recovery going? Is she awake and talking?
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ja1484
Jan 27, 2008, 3:22 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: I know I for one will think twice about puting on the old brain bucket even when I am not trad climbing (I always wear it while climbing trad). Maybe not everytime, but if there is even the chance of rockfall, I will definately be puting it on.
Wear mine on all trad, when leading sport, when belaying sport if there's loose rock present, typically not on toprope unless it's really really chossy.
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burrito
Jan 29, 2008, 2:43 PM
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notapplicable wrote: neoamhas wrote: it was a non sequitur to illustrate my feelings about elementary conclusions concerning my friends accident. this "case" involves an amazing woman, and your analysis of the obvious brings nothing useful to the table. I disagree about the relivance of the issue but as I said, I am very sorry to hear about your friends injuries. How's her recovery going? Is she awake and talking?
She's awake! I heard last night that she's not yet talking, but I think that has more to do with the various tubes and whatnot than it does with her ability to speak. Great news in all, I think.
(By the way, I don't log in very often, so I don't see people's profile pictures much. Yours almost made me lose my breakfast. Thanks.  )
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wanderlustmd
Jan 29, 2008, 5:55 PM
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burrito wrote: notapplicable wrote: neoamhas wrote: it was a non sequitur to illustrate my feelings about elementary conclusions concerning my friends accident. this "case" involves an amazing woman, and your analysis of the obvious brings nothing useful to the table. I disagree about the relivance of the issue but as I said, I am very sorry to hear about your friends injuries. How's her recovery going? Is she awake and talking? She's awake! I heard last night that she's not yet talking, but I think that has more to do with the various tubes and whatnot than it does with her ability to speak. Great news in all, I think. (By the way, I don't log in very often, so I don't see people's profile pictures much. Yours almost made me lose my breakfast. Thanks. )
GOOD news! Keep sending good vibes everyone.
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notapplicable
Jan 29, 2008, 10:48 PM
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cracklover wrote: Read this update today: In reply to: So Sara has been up to a chair a bit each day, and yesterday she took her first tentative steps! Hurray! Thought y'all would appreciate knowing. GO
Thanks Gabe.
Thats really good news, hopefully she's on the way to a full recovery.
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durangoclimber
Jan 29, 2008, 11:05 PM
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Good to hear she is improving. Please keep us posted.
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clintcummins
Jan 29, 2008, 11:24 PM
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Ouch on that injury. Very good news on her recent progress.
Regarding helmets - a higher priority than wearing a helmet is "belaying to the side". It decreases your chances of being hit by a rock. A rock can still take a bad bounce and travel to the side, but at least you would probably hear it first if this was the case. Sometimes there are not many options at the base if it is a narrow gully, a steep slope with few stances, or large patches of poison ivy to avoid. In that case, belaying from above may be a good option to take advantage of.
Back in the early 80s we were toproping some new routes in Connecticut, with several of us sitting around the base and hanging out. You try to be careful and always be to the side, but sometimes you are tired and forget. The guy climbing was stepping up on a foothold when it suddenly broke off a foot-wide block, which headed straight down, and straight towards my friend (Al Rubin) who was on the ground. He dove and rolled to the side, but it nailed him right in the back of the knee. Very painful, and potentially very bad, but nothing was broken.
There are a lot of potential risks, even when toproping. I guess my main point of caution is that wearing a helmet doesn't eliminate risk, and that belaying to the side is an important thing to do.
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reno
Jan 29, 2008, 11:47 PM
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cracklover wrote: Read this update today: In reply to: So Sara has been up to a chair a bit each day, and yesterday she took her first tentative steps! Hurray! Thought y'all would appreciate knowing.
Excellent news.
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wonderwoman
Jan 30, 2008, 12:03 AM
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cracklover wrote: Read this update today: In reply to: So Sara has been up to a chair a bit each day, and yesterday she took her first tentative steps! Hurray! Thought y'all would appreciate knowing. GO
Yes, this is great news! Sara's health seems to be improving little by little! Walking is one step closer to climbing, right?
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Adk
Jan 30, 2008, 1:48 AM
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Full, well thought out prayers are still on their way daily.
Get well Sara! Get well!!!
You are in my entire family's prayers....from coast to coast.
(This post was edited by Adk on Jan 30, 2008, 2:21 PM)
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jonathanjcooke
Jan 30, 2008, 5:58 AM
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The climb was "Cat Crack." Be careful on pretty much every route at East Peak, especially in the ampitheater where it is somewhat difficult to belay out of the way of rockfall. Great job to everybody who got her out of there.
Also, I was there earlier that day and I think I have some pictures of her. Maybe she would like to have them? Anybody have her, or close friends, parents, contact info?
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wonderwoman
Jan 30, 2008, 2:17 PM
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Just PM'd you her parents email. I know that they have hung some of her climbing pics in her room to keep her spirits high.
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wanderlustmd
Jan 30, 2008, 4:48 PM
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Great news on walking, sounds like she is making great progress!! Keep us posted.
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sterling_sonya
Jan 30, 2008, 6:06 PM
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Sara helped out with one of our women's events in N. Conway and did an awesome job! I was saddened (and shocked) to hear of her accident and have kept her in my prayers. Glad to hear she is up and walking - best wishes to her for a speedy and full recovery!
Sonya
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burrito
Jan 31, 2008, 7:09 PM
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More good news:
In reply to: Sara has walked around the ICU several times. She is getting better at communicating, and [her family] heard her voice for the first time today.
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durangoclimber
Jan 31, 2008, 7:11 PM
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KICK ASS - That is huge for such an injury. Keep on Keepin on.
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Adk
Feb 8, 2008, 12:54 PM
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TTT
Any idea on Sara's progress?
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olderic
Feb 8, 2008, 3:06 PM
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Last I heard was:
Sara is doing nicely is rehab, walking the halls, talking with her family. Long term plans are rehab, rehab, rehab! Thankfully she is over the hump and clearly on the mend.
Her recovery is in the hands of G-d and the wonderful doctors who have been taking care of her.
This will be a long process, measured in months, not days and weeks.
We are so thankful for everyone's support and prayers that have carried us along to this point.
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tigerlilly
Feb 8, 2008, 3:30 PM
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I hope she recovers fully. She must be one tough gal!
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