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shaylily
Jul 18, 2008, 5:16 PM
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Here is a new one for you. I have Celiacs Disease and cannot eat anything with wheat, barley, rye, or any bi-products made from those items.
Suggestions for losing weight?
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jt512
Jul 18, 2008, 6:17 PM
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shaylily wrote: Here is a new one for you. I have Celiacs Disease and cannot eat anything with wheat, barley, rye, or any bi-products made from those items. Suggestions for losing weight?
Have you bothered to read and attempt to understand my article? Because the principles in it apply equally to someone with celiac disease.
Jay
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krusher4
Jul 18, 2008, 6:56 PM
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I say Whiskey, THC and Cliff Bars....your welcome.
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onceahardman
Jul 18, 2008, 9:17 PM
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krusher4 wrote: I say Whiskey, THC and Cliff Bars....your welcome.
It's "whisky"...if you have to ask, you'll never know.
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shaylily
Jul 18, 2008, 9:17 PM
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I have read many articles just like yours (and more detailed) and ended up very sick!
What exactly do you suggest for carbs? I eat a lot of fruit, beans and the like but that doesn't go very far for me. I end up hungary a lot and that means more calories that what is really needed. If I cut fat, then I get incredibly hungary and eat even more while having no energy to move my body.
I primarily eat meat and veggies but that is hard to take to the crag. I am not home very often and food that I can eat anywhere is limited.
Do you really understand Celiacs and know all the bi-products?
I have stumped two doctors and many nutritionist who do not know much about it . HELPFUL advise is what I am looking for.
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onceahardman
Jul 18, 2008, 9:26 PM
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Hi shaylily...
It's with great trepidation that I go here, but I agree with you. Eating meat/cheese/veggies with very few carbs helps me control appetite better than anything. I don't do the formal Atkins any more, but when I used to, it was very effective for cutting fat, without muscle loss. If you are carrying a positive amino acid balance, you won't be breaking down muscle, simple as that. And Atkins does not advocate eating all the bacon, eggs, prime rib, etc, you want-just enough to feel satisfied. And daily fresh salad greens are a requirement of formal Atkins.
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jt512
Jul 18, 2008, 10:24 PM
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shaylily wrote: I have read many articles just like yours (and more detailed) and ended up very sick! What exactly do you suggest for carbs? I eat a lot of fruit, beans and the like but that doesn't go very far for me. I end up hungary a lot and that means more calories that what is really needed.
That's why it's important to count calories. Plan your meals, and stop eating when your caloric requirements have been met.
I think that if I were you I'd lean toward more of a Mediterranean diet. I don't know what you mean by "...fruit, beans and the like but that doesn't go very far for me...". Do you have access to a good Middle Eastern grocery store? The one I shop at probably has 100 different kinds of beans, and 50 different grains (some of which I'm sure are ok with celiac disease, but you'd have to research which ones). The falafel restaurant I often have lunch at has 40 different bean and eggplant based dishes. Other carbohydrates? White potatoes, sweet potatoes, brown rice, bananas, plantain, squash, pumpkin, corn, millet, buckwheat, quinoa, amaranth, teff, soy... You want me to come over and cook for you, too?
Jay
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crackmeup
Jul 18, 2008, 10:25 PM
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Hi Shaylily,
My wife also has celiac disease. Where do you live? If you have a Whole Foods or similar grocery store nearby, they have a decent gluten-free section. We usually keep gluten-free bread in the freezer, and when we go for a day outing she makes her own sandwiches or brings rice crackers.
For cooking, she uses a mix of tapioca flour, corn starch and rice flour (keep an eye on the calories if using this, I believe it has more calories per volume than wheat flour). There is also garbanzo, soy and quinoa. Most of what she makes needs to be eaten within a day or it tends to go stale, and it's not always tasty after freezing it.
One thing we like to take as snacks are Japanese rice rolls (nori, rice and usually fish). You can buy them at Japanese foot markets or make them yourself and keep them in the fridge overnight. Make sure to use gluten-free soy sauce (Kikoman for example usually contains wheat). If you take them to the crag and keep them cool, they should be good for a few hours.
My wife also has her own gluten-free chocolate chip cookie recipe (best I've had), but it's not recommended if you want to lose weight 
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jt512
Jul 18, 2008, 10:36 PM
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onceahardman wrote: Hi shaylily... If you are carrying a positive amino acid balance, you won't be breaking down muscle, simple as that.
First of all, you are always breaking down muscle. That's the main reason that a healthy, non-pregnant adult has to eat protein in the first place.
Secondly, positive amino acid balance implies that you are building muscle, growing, pregnant, or recovering from disease, so your statement is doing nothing but providing an inaccurate definition of positive amino acid balance. If you were in neutral amino acid balance you'd be maintaining muscle mass. You beg the question whether it is even possible to be in neutral amino acid balance on a low-carbohydrate, negative energy balance diet. Based on biochemistry this should be very difficult to attain, even in ketosis. How do you know you were not losing muscle mass while on the Atkins diet? Were you carefully comparing your nitrogen intake and output on a daily basis?
Jay
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theguy
Jul 18, 2008, 10:54 PM
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angry wrote: I have about a months supply of Genotropin (hgh). It's worth about $7000. Think I can sell it on Ebay?
Did another plane crash in the Valley?
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theguy
Jul 18, 2008, 11:01 PM
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jt512 wrote: justroberto wrote: ryanb wrote: leaves you low energy and mentally week Back on the diet? D'oh! Beat me to it. Jay
jt512 wrote: Quoted for properity! Jay
Aha... after all your skepticism, you've gone on the diet too... does that count as an "endorselment"? :)
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onceahardman
Jul 18, 2008, 11:01 PM
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In reply to: How do you know you were not losing muscle mass while on the Atkins diet? Were you carefully comparing your nitrogen intake and output on a daily basis?
No. I was in PT school, and the exercise science lab had an immersion tank for body fat analysis. Over 95% of my 20 lb weight loss was adipose.
I recognize your expertise in this area, Jay, and don't wish for an argument here. But my anecdotal evidence is "it works for me."
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ryanb
Jul 18, 2008, 11:06 PM
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I've been in ketosis (not from atkin's...i'm type one diabetic) and it sucks ass. Jay's advice/article is great (and his obsession with the pedantic codification of language makes it read real good). I particularly liked his explanation of how it is possible to deplete ones reserves through high protean low carb diets. This is a real effect to watch out for.
I've been concentrating on longer routes with approaches (a friend and I did a sustained alpine 5.11+ IV this last weekend) and longer training days to match and am finding weight loss is not as big an issue as maintaining enough energy to avoid bonking...I say eat however lets you climb the most and your climbing will improve. On long days I crave carbs.
Mark Twight and others have written about how they eat on long climbs (power bars and goo packets). Cyclists have some good info too. There is a sushi bar recipe developed by Olympic cyclists at:
http://www.nytimes.com/...ed=2&oref=slogin
I think they are even glutard (meant affectionately, its a term coined by a gluten intolerant friend) safe?
(This post was edited by ryanb on Jul 18, 2008, 11:07 PM)
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jt512
Jul 19, 2008, 12:44 AM
Post #39 of 74
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onceahardman wrote: In reply to: How do you know you were not losing muscle mass while on the Atkins diet? Were you carefully comparing your nitrogen intake and output on a daily basis? No. I was in PT school, and the exercise science lab had an immersion tank for body fat analysis. Over 95% of my 20 lb weight loss was adipose. I recognize your expertise in this area, Jay, and don't wish for an argument here. But my anecdotal evidence is "it works for me."
Though your muscle mass loss was apparently modest, five percent of your weight loss was apparently from lean body mass, indicating that you were in negative protein balance. In contrast, it has been documented in a well-controlled study [1] that, with the levels of dietary protein, carbohydrate, and fat I recommend, combined with resistance training, actual positive protein balance (that is, net muscle mass gain) can be achieved while body fat is simultaneously lost. To my knowledge this has not been shown for a low-carbohydrate diet.
Jay
Reference:
1. Demling RH, DeSanti L. Effect of a hypocaloric diet, increased protein intake and resistance training on lean mass gains and fat mass loss in overweight police officers. Ann Nutr Metab. 2000;44(1):21-9.
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shaylily
Jul 19, 2008, 1:25 AM
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Sure, come on over - I'd love to have you cook for me!
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shaylily
Jul 19, 2008, 1:56 AM
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I think the article nailed my fustration on-the-head. I am not finding a carb/protein/fat balance that works. I got so messed-up before diagnosis that I am trying to figure it out from scratch. Rice, beans and potatoes are currently unappetizing and sometimes kickstart my acid reflux. I don't have an explanation of why. These foods just make me go "yuck."
I love the term glutard and will use it often!
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jt512
Jul 19, 2008, 1:58 AM
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shaylily wrote: Sure, come on over - I'd love to have you cook for me!
Actually, you wouldn't. My girlfriend, maybe.
Jay
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shaylily
Jul 19, 2008, 2:04 AM
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Hi Crack - Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and a ton of ethnic grocery stores are currently about 1-1.5 hours away. I just moved and didn't think about the lack of ethnic culture here. The upside is that I knocked off about an hour from climbing outdoors.
Feel free to pass along some good recipes!
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stonefoxgirl
Jul 22, 2008, 2:06 AM
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Helpful, thank you!
I am obsessed with nutrition and how the body works. Every little bit of info, even repeated, gives me a better understanding of what I should eat. It's such and interesting and important topic for an athlete, so much to learn.
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lena_chita
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Jul 22, 2008, 3:03 PM
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Hey, shaylily, have you tried quinoa yet? Cooks pretty much like rice, gluten-free, way tastier than plain rice IMO... And supposedly has more protein per serving and more 'complete' protein than rice, though I can't say that i ever looked at nutritional breakdown of both side-by-side.
Check this website for some gluten-free baking ideas:
http://www.glutenanddairyfree.com/
(My friend runs this one-- she has daughter with Celiac)
You can order gluten-free stuff online, too, if Whole Foods is too far. And do you know where Mustard Seed Market is in Solon? Maybe a bit closer for you if you are in Akron. They carry a lot of gluten-free stuff.
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getout87
Jul 22, 2008, 3:10 PM
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I've tried quinoa on numerous occasions, but have never really liked it. Maybe it was the way it was prepared, but it tasted like rancid cardboard to me.
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lena_chita
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Jul 22, 2008, 3:21 PM
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getout87 wrote: I've tried quinoa on numerous occasions, but have never really liked it. Maybe it was the way it was prepared, but it tasted like rancid cardboard to me.
Maybe you bought it rancid? Or maybe you just have the wrong taste receptors, LOL. Everything is possible, of course... after all, there is a gene that makes some people swear that cilantro tastes bitter and smells like cockroaches... And some people are way more sensitive to "cabbage" taste than others.
Oh, and couple more gluten-free suggestions would be millet and amaranth. But they are a bit trickier to prepare, IMO.
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mr.tastycakes
Jul 22, 2008, 8:49 PM
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for sports nutrition i go with john berardi. his 7 principles article is a good one to start with, i think.
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/index.htm
the most important ones for me in terms of feeling energized all day are to eat every 2-3 hours and eating veggies/fruit and lean protein with every meal. or course, the principles are hard to follow when you're camping for a long weekend...
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onceahardman
Jul 22, 2008, 11:20 PM
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Jay, this:
In reply to: Weight loss occurred in all three groups over the 24 months but was greater in the Mediterranean and low-carb groups. In men — who made up the bulk of the study cohort — weight loss was greatest in the low-carb group, whereas women — just 45 in the study cohort — appeared to lose more weight on the Mediterranean diet. When the analysis was performed just in the 272 "completers" who adhered to the diet for the entire study period, the pattern of weight loss associated with each diet was similar. Weight loss Group Low-fat (kg) Mediterranean (kg) Low-carb (kg) All patients –2.9 –4.4 –4.7 All completers –3.3 –4.6 –5.5 Men –3.4 –4.0 –4.9 Women –0.1 –6.2 –2.4 Changes in lipid parameters were also most striking in the low-carb and Mediterranean-diet groups. High-density lipoprotein (HDL) increases and triglyceride decreases were most pronounced in the low-carb group, while reductions in low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol were greatest in the Mediterranean-diet group. Reductions in total cholesterol/HDL ratio were greatest in the low-carb group, closely followed by the Mediterranean-diet group. Lipid changes Parameter Low-fat (mg/dL) Low-carb (mg/dL) Mediterranean (mg/dL) HDL +6.4 +8.4 +6.3 LDL –0.05 –3.0 –5.6 Triglycerides –2.8 –23.7 –21.8 Total cholesterol/HDL ratio –0.6 –1.1 –0.9
Is from a medline review of this paper:
In reply to: Shai I, Schwarzfuchs D, Henkin Y, et al. Weight loss with a low-carbohydrate, Mediterranean, or low-fat diet. N Engl J Med. 2008;359:229-241.
The Medscape article is here, but you may need to open a medscape account to access it:
http://www.medscape.com/...n=17&uac=84639BR
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jt512
Jul 22, 2008, 11:52 PM
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onceahardman wrote: Shai I, Schwarzfuchs D, Henkin Y, et al. Weight loss with a low-carbohydrate, Mediterranean, or low-fat diet. N Engl J Med. 2008;359:229-241.
I've read the paper. The study adds to the evidence that people can lose weight in the short term by following a low-carb diet, often without counting calories, due, presumably, to a short-term reduction in appetite. Although the study lasted two years, all the weight loss occurred in the first few months (this was true in all three diet groups). Unfortunately, the paper does not include body composition data, so we cannot say how much of the weight lost was body fat. Whether a low-carb diet is healthy in the long run remains an open question.
Jay
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