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patmay81
Aug 22, 2008, 5:44 PM
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ok, so maybe it doesnt make much since. but basically if you are "working" a climb its sport climbing right. if you climb with a "must not fall" attitude you are trad climbing.
so if you are sport climbing (working a climb) you are going for a redpoint ascent.
I dunno, that could just be the beer talking again. And I usually don't get all caught up in the symantics; redpoint vs flash vs onsight, or trad vs sport vs bouldering. I just like to climb, and yes I am a n00b, so you can save the stfu and pftwhatever.
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stymingersfink
Aug 22, 2008, 5:54 PM
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patmay81 wrote: ok, so maybe it doesnt make much since. but basically if you are "working" a climb its sport climbing right. if you climb with a "must not fall" attitude you are trad climbing. so if you are sport climbing (working a climb) you are going for a redpoint ascent. I dunno, that could just be the beer talking again. And I usually don't get all caught up in the symantics; redpoint vs flash vs onsight, or trad vs sport vs bouldering. I just like to climb, and yes I am a n00b, so you can save the stfu and pftwhatever.
I's willing to fallz on 98% of the gearz I place. Duz that make it spurt climbinz?
Don't think so!
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patmay81
Aug 22, 2008, 6:28 PM
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I just think that if your going to work a climb, on gear or on bolts, its sport climbing. I've taken a lot more falls on gear than on bolts, but if I pulled all the gear and tried to climb it again I wouldn't consider it a traditional climb. The term redpoint just doesn't make sense when refering to a trad climb to me.
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jrathfon
Aug 22, 2008, 6:33 PM
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the OP was the 14 year old recommending a solo forum for people who climb without ropes....
not a free solo forum mind you.
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stymingersfink
Aug 22, 2008, 6:35 PM
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patmay81 wrote: I just think that if your going to work a climb, on gear or on bolts, its sport climbing. I've taken a lot more falls on gear than on bolts, but if I pulled all the gear and tried to climb it again I wouldn't consider it a traditional climb. The term redpoint just doesn't make sense when refering to a trad climb to me.
If I fall on a trad climb, come back (either later that day or two years from now even) and lead it without falling, I would call it a redpoint.
If I fell on the trad climb, and rather than start from the ground I continued up the climb to finish it, I would call it a hang-dog ascent.
So... what doesn't make sense? No difference on a trad ascent between the distinctions I would make about a clip-up ascent, it's just known that on a non-bolt protected climb, I'm placing the pro, that's all.
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patmay81
Aug 22, 2008, 6:52 PM
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no, I'm not confused at all, although I'm sure i come across fairly confusing. basically I don't distinguish between "trad" and "sport" on the basis of whether there are bolts on the route or not.
The reasoning is that in the Willamette valley there are a lot of "trad" climbs with a couple of bolts in the hard to protect sections. A lot of these are on really hard climbs that might take a redpoint effort to climb. So if I have to work the moves, I usually refer to it as a sport climb. If I can climb it cleanly on my first or second attempt, whether I clip the bolts or not, I usually refer to it as a traditional climb.
so I yes you are right there is a redpoint traditional ascent, I just don't usually climb that way. I'm not big into redpoint attempts.
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hafilax
Aug 22, 2008, 7:07 PM
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mar_leclerc wrote: wow.. i just wanted to see what people said in response to my silly post..... I actually sport climb myself, although I much prefer trad and alpine. Hafilax... if the bolts arent there and you are placing them on lead I consider it trad...... if you rap bolt it, its sport climbing... hanging on hooks is aid... you have to be hanging on.
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stymingersfink
Aug 22, 2008, 7:18 PM
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patmay81 wrote: no, I'm not confused at all, although I'm sure i come across fairly confusing. basically I don't distinguish between "trad" and "sport" on the basis of whether there are bolts on the route or not. The reasoning is that in the Willamette valley there are a lot of "trad" climbs with a couple of bolts in the hard to protect sections. A lot of these are on really hard climbs that might take a redpoint effort to climb. So if I have to work the moves, I usually refer to it as a sport climb. If I can climb it cleanly on my first or second attempt, whether I clip the bolts or not, I usually refer to it as a traditional climb. so I yes you are right there is a redpoint traditional ascent, I just don't usually climb that way. I'm not big into redpoint attempts.
bolts do not a sport climb make.
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patmay81
Aug 22, 2008, 7:29 PM
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In reply to: bolts do not a sport climb make
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tradrenn
Aug 22, 2008, 7:42 PM
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jammer wrote: I climb sport to hone my skills for trad ...
If you are spurt climbing in order to get stronger on trad, you are cheating.
jammer wrote: good practice to see where you are at. Tell me one climber that can climb harder in trad that they can in sport ...
Almost all climbers, before 1980 kicked in.
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time2clmb
Aug 22, 2008, 7:43 PM
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In reply to: So if I have to work the moves, I usually refer to it as a sport climb. If I can climb it cleanly on my first or second attempt, whether I clip the bolts or not, I usually refer to it as a traditional climb
If you climb it on your second attempt then it's a redpoint regardless of it being bolts or gear.
I love how every one makes up their own terms for climbing when the terms are already laid out. Onsight would be a good example of that. People, if you looked at the guidebook, know where the crux is, and at what grade it goes at it is NOT an onsight. Off topic now.
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jammer
Aug 22, 2008, 9:25 PM
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tradrenn wrote: jammer wrote: I climb sport to hone my skills for trad ... If you are spurt climbing in order to get stronger on trad, you are cheating. jammer wrote: good practice to see where you are at. Tell me one climber that can climb harder in trad that they can in sport ... Almost all climbers, before 1980 kicked in.
Cheating? lol ... the first climbers had no gear but what is natural. Do you use gear?
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jammer
Aug 22, 2008, 9:30 PM
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angry wrote: jammer wrote: Tell me one climber that can climb harder in trad that they can in sport ... In both consistency and onsight and absolute hardest. I climb trad harder than sport. Sorry to be contrary.
Nice! Have you climbed sport much? Just asking? Usually, you can push harder in sport due to not having to take the time to place gear. You don't burn so much, and can push yourself harder. Plus, you are more at ease when peeling due to a solid bolt is not as questionable as what looks like a good placed piece. It is in the head ... but that is just me, I guess.
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angry
Aug 22, 2008, 9:37 PM
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jammer wrote: angry wrote: jammer wrote: Tell me one climber that can climb harder in trad that they can in sport ... In both consistency and onsight and absolute hardest. I climb trad harder than sport. Sorry to be contrary. Nice! Have you climbed sport much? Just asking? Usually, you can push harder in sport due to not having to take the time to place gear. You don't burn so much, and can push yourself harder. Plus, you are more at ease when peeling due to a solid bolt is not as questionable as what looks like a good placed piece. It is in the head ... but that is just me, I guess.
I have not climbed as much sport as trad, but I've done a lot of sport.
I trust my gear when it's trustworthy.
I also trust my jams.
It's all about practice.
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kriso9tails
Aug 22, 2008, 9:58 PM
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angry wrote: I also trust my jams. It's all about practice.
Also, crack climbing isn't real climbing, which is why it doesn't translate into climbing sport.
And don't contradict that 'cause I have comprehensive proof as to why it's not real climbing.
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patmay81
Aug 22, 2008, 10:04 PM
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In reply to: I have comprehensive proof as to why it's not real climbing.
could I see/hear said proof? just curious.
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kriso9tails
Aug 22, 2008, 10:05 PM
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patmay81 wrote: In reply to: I have comprehensive proof as to why it's not real climbing. could I see/hear said proof? just curious.
I suck at crack climbing, therefor it's not real climbing.
I think that's pretty sound logic. It seems to work for many climbers.
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patmay81
Aug 22, 2008, 10:32 PM
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I see, so thats why bouldering isnt real climbing... because I suck at it!
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toofreakinsexy1
Aug 23, 2008, 2:02 AM
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I thank you much :)
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Dynosaur13
Aug 23, 2008, 2:25 AM
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tradrenn wrote: Almost all climbers, before 1980 kicked in.
haha true statement
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stymingersfink
Aug 23, 2008, 4:40 AM
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jammer wrote: angry wrote: I have not climbed as much sport as trad ... Wish I could say that! Maybe I'd have a different outlook on this subject. I love a good jam.
Peace! 
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tradrenn
Aug 23, 2008, 6:45 AM
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jammer wrote: tradrenn wrote: jammer wrote: I climb sport to hone my skills for trad ... If you are spurt climbing in order to get stronger on trad, you are cheating. jammer wrote: good practice to see where you are at. Tell me one climber that can climb harder in trad that they can in sport ... Almost all climbers, before 1980 kicked in. Cheating? lol ... the first climbers had no gear but what is natural. Do you use gear?
Yes, unless I decide to solo than I don't.
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tradrenn
Aug 23, 2008, 6:52 AM
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jammer wrote: angry wrote: I have not climbed as much sport as trad ... Wish I could say that! Maybe I'd have a different outlook on this subject. I love a good jam.
You should not be wishing, you should be doing it, there is plenty of trad in NH and one good bulted route called Future Shock.
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