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jrathfon
Feb 13, 2009, 3:08 PM
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kriso9tails wrote: jrathfon wrote: p.p.s. trad routes ARE harder Nah, they're just graded wrong.
Old school ratings were first, therefore, they have to be correct. Besides that's one of the principle factors in defining the term "sport weenies", the soft grades that is.
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krusher4
Feb 13, 2009, 3:40 PM
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5.13 is very hard I don't think most people can climb at this grade with any amount of work.
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kriso9tails
Feb 13, 2009, 4:31 PM
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jrathfon wrote: kriso9tails wrote: jrathfon wrote: p.p.s. trad routes ARE harder Nah, they're just graded wrong. Old school ratings were first, therefore, they have to be correct. Besides that's one of the principle factors in defining the term "sport weenies", the soft grades that is.
First therefor correct? Like the theory of a flat earth and a geocentric universe? Good to know.
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jrathfon
Feb 13, 2009, 4:34 PM
Post #54 of 106
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kriso9tails wrote: jrathfon wrote: kriso9tails wrote: jrathfon wrote: p.p.s. trad routes ARE harder Nah, they're just graded wrong. Old school ratings were first, therefore, they have to be correct. Besides that's one of the principle factors in defining the term "sport weenies", the soft grades that is. First therefor correct? Like the theory of a flat earth and a geocentric universe? Good to know.
That may explain the space-time shifting island in LOST.
No, first meaning, new grades (and therefore graders) are soft.
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kriso9tails
Feb 13, 2009, 4:53 PM
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jrathfon wrote: No, first meaning, new grades (and therefore graders) are soft.
Ah, so long as I don't grade anything then I'm not soft? Got it. Cool.
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jrathfon
Feb 13, 2009, 5:47 PM
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kriso9tails wrote: jrathfon wrote: No, first meaning, new grades (and therefore graders) are soft. Ah, so long as I don't grade anything then I'm not soft? Got it. Cool.
Unless you grade it old-school (i.e. trad grades) than you can be a hardman.
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hafilax
Feb 13, 2009, 6:06 PM
Post #57 of 106
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My understanding of the evolution of the YDS is that 5.9 was originally intended to be the top of the scale. For a while 5.9 meant everything up to the mid 11's. That is part of the reason why 'old school' seems hard. Does that make it correct?
A good scale is a consistent one and as long as it's consistent within a region that's fine by me. You just recalibrate your relative scale when traveling. You climb as hard as you climb. If you have to attach a number to it that's too bad for you.
So yeah... 5.12... It's time to get back to training to get there. Any advice from those that made a winter time gym program to be as strong as possible when getting back on the rock?
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dingus
Feb 13, 2009, 6:20 PM
Post #58 of 106
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hafilax wrote: My understanding of the evolution of the YDS is that 5.9 was originally intended to be the top of the scale. For a while 5.9 meant everything up to the mid 11's. That is part of the reason why 'old school' seems hard. Does that make it correct? A good scale is a consistent one and as long as it's consistent within a region that's fine by me. You just recalibrate your relative scale when traveling. You climb as hard as you climb. If you have to attach a number to it that's too bad for you. So yeah... 5.12... It's time to get back to training to get there. Any advice from those that made a winter time gym program to be as strong as possible when getting back on the rock?
Celebrate the inconsistencies my friends. Revel in the confusion, because all too soon it will be so regulated and homogenized that no grade drift will be possible or tolerated.
The lineage of our sport is one of madmen and nutbergers, genuis and atheletes; many of whom were spontaneously acting in virtual vacuums. Of COURSE their rating systems were wildly divergent.
CELEBRATE THAT FACT!
A Gunks 5.7 is so goddamned different from a Yosemite 5.7 its nearly an insult to compare them at all.
Sure spraying about grades is fun. Soft, stout, chickenshit and bold - we got it all.
Sandbags are cool and SHOULD NEVER BE OUTLAWED.
Soft ratings are cool too, as numbers chasing is one giant ALL ABOUT ME EGO TRIP anyway... so why NOT have some ego - soothing routes? Huh?
HUH?
The first egoless climber to post that fact here (yes THEY chase number for EGO... but I do so for aesthetics and the purity of my perfect body hahahahahahahahahaha!) SUCK IT!!!111111
Consistent ratings are for gymbees and emasculated sport climbers.
DMT
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dynosore
Feb 13, 2009, 7:37 PM
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crazy_fingers84 wrote: Anyway, it was originally a gear route. . . but was retro bolted . . . and now it is a sport route with a really high first bolt right at the crux.
This is why number chasing sucks. I can't do a trad 12 so I'll bolt it. I personally can't do 12 sport or trad, but at least I don't need to retrobolt to boost my ego. Sad.
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lucaskrajnik
Feb 24, 2009, 9:58 PM
Post #60 of 106
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I like to get up to the 12 range because you have more options to climb..
but I have been climbing since
August of 2007 and i sent my first 12
June of 2008
but when i say i started in 2007, i was already very strong, and i climbed a min. of 5 days a week after that...so...
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krusher4
Feb 24, 2009, 10:17 PM
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if you climb harder routes the routes you want to do are never taken ;-) To warm up you might have to wait in line.
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yokese
Feb 24, 2009, 11:13 PM
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15 years and still counting... 
Actually, no, make that 16 and still counting
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the_leech
Feb 26, 2009, 4:59 AM
Post #63 of 106
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curt wrote: Any reasonably fit retard can climb 5.12 sport climbs.
How do I become a retard? That must be what's holding me back.
Maybe I need a mentor...
USNavy, can you give me some pointers?
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USnavy
Feb 26, 2009, 9:33 AM
Post #64 of 106
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togden wrote: I guess I'm just a little confused... I always hear that 5.12's are crazy hard and you have to train for years to be able to do them. I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. I've been climbing for almost a year exactly, and I skipped top roping and just jumped straight to lead. I guess what I'm saying is I'm confused by this self defeatist mentality surrounding 5.12's. They are certainly hard climbs, no doubt, but not impossible. My climbing buddy has been climbing for close to 4 years, and hasn't gotten a .12 either. I see a .12, know I can't do it, and try anyway. He says, "Naw, it's too hard, lets try something else." What gives?
My guess is that 5.12 is the magical number because that’s where the upper half of most committed climbers get stuck at. Not many make it into the 5.13 realm and thus 5.12 is a brick wall for many committed climbers. I am soon going to start my first 5.12c project and judging from what I already know about it, pushing into 5.13 will take some extremely serious commitment and training. More then what the average committed climber is willing to do.
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LamontagnedeGatineau
Feb 26, 2009, 1:43 PM
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kriso9tails wrote: jrathfon wrote: p.p.s. trad routes ARE harder Nah, they're just graded wrong.
Nah, trad 5.12 existed before sports climbing existed. It's the grades that are going down. 20 years ago I though my on-sight max was 5.10 trad (hang dogging was considered evil then). Today I'm back in climbing and a bunch of those old 5.10's are now graded 5.11!!! Well whadayaknow... I was a 5.11 climber all that time??!! I imagine that a bunch of gunk 5.11's would now be graded 5.12 by the young hotshots that get sandbagged into them...
Anyway, to me the 5.x max factor is less important than having fun and trying new stuff. Particularly on-sight. If you have to work it, hang-dog it, waste your time on it... did you really, REALLY send it???
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zeke_sf
Feb 26, 2009, 2:38 PM
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Myxomatosis wrote: I think it just really depends on how much you want it.... Some people are just happy to top rope 5.9's all day long.. some people want to find there limit. A big factor is how oftern you get injured or take time out from climbing.
Overrall, a good post.
Personally, I've been tickling the garter line of 5.12 for several years. I was climbing progressively harder when I injured my ring finger pretty badly. So, it's literally taken me several years to Get Back into It™ and I'm essentially where I left off. In the interim, I really discovered the joys of trad climbing which, all in all, I'm pretty damn thankful for.
The sends I'm proudest of are those where I've really pushed my personal limits. Those climbs I really had to persevere to get or the ones I don't consider in my style but I worked through are the ones I remember. But to a lot of people, Just Getting out There™ and Having a Good Time™ are the whole point of climbing. I think the key is to find the lines that inspire you. If you look at something and Have to Climb It™, then, no matter the grade, that's what you should do.
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zeke_sf
Feb 26, 2009, 2:42 PM
Post #67 of 106
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LamontagnedeGatineau wrote: If you have to work it, hang-dog it, waste your time on it... did you really, REALLY send it???
Yes! Yes I did! And because you didn't take your time to work it, hang-dog it, and figure out the sequences, you didn't.
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LamontagnedeGatineau
Feb 26, 2009, 3:48 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: LamontagnedeGatineau wrote: If you have to work it, hang-dog it, waste your time on it... did you really, REALLY send it??? Yes! Yes I did! And because you didn't take your time to work it, hang-dog it, and figure out the sequences, you didn't. Good for you!!! I find climbing is a fun waste of time. How you or I choose to use it is a personal choice. You seem to prefer wasting time by gaining intimate knowledge of a few features and how to get over them, while I prefer variety...
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cracklover
Feb 26, 2009, 3:50 PM
Post #69 of 106
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Just because I think a lot of you missed this...
The OP is about to send his first *gym* 12.
Mr. Togden - just so you know, gym grades don't mean shit. I can tell you that from personal experience, as a former gym rat.
togden wrote: I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks.
togden wrote: I was climbing {in Little and Big Cottonwood} 2 or 3 times a week from last March till the snow kept me indoors. Now I climb at the local gym, Momentum (Where they just had the SCS Open National Comp) once or twice a week.
Cheers,
GO
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zeke_sf
Feb 26, 2009, 3:51 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: LamontagnedeGatineau wrote: If you have to work it, hang-dog it, waste your time on it... did you really, REALLY send it??? Yes! Yes I did! And because you didn't take your time to work it, hang-dog it, and figure out the sequences, you didn't. Good for you!!! I find climbing is a fun waste of time. How you or I choose to use it is a personal choice. You seem to prefer wasting time by gaining intimate knowledge of a few features and how to get over them, while I prefer variety...
I actually waste time both ways. Why limit your options to waste it?
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zeke_sf
Feb 26, 2009, 3:52 PM
Post #71 of 106
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cracklover wrote: Just because I think a lot of you missed this... The OP is about to send his first *gym* 12. Mr. Togden - just so you know, gym grades don't mean shit. I can tell you that from personal experience, as a former gym rat. togden wrote: I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. togden wrote: I was climbing {in Little and Big Cottonwood} 2 or 3 times a week from last March till the snow kept me indoors. Now I climb at the local gym, Momentum (Where they just had the SCS Open National Comp) once or twice a week. Cheers, GO
So? Gym climbing is harder. Just ask Angry.
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LamontagnedeGatineau
Feb 26, 2009, 3:59 PM
Post #72 of 106
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zeke_sf wrote: zeke_sf wrote: LamontagnedeGatineau wrote: If you have to work it, hang-dog it, waste your time on it... did you really, REALLY send it??? Yes! Yes I did! And because you didn't take your time to work it, hang-dog it, and figure out the sequences, you didn't. Good for you!!! I find climbing is a fun waste of time. How you or I choose to use it is a personal choice. You seem to prefer wasting time by gaining intimate knowledge of a few features and how to get over them, while I prefer variety... I actually waste time both ways. Why limit your options to waste it?
Why do I need to repeat myself? I said, because "How you or I choose to use it is a personal choice."
Just please don't chip holds, retro-bolt or spend the day hogging a classic route. Those are evil deeds.
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zeke_sf
Feb 26, 2009, 4:11 PM
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LamontagnedeGatineau wrote: zeke_sf wrote: zeke_sf wrote: LamontagnedeGatineau wrote: If you have to work it, hang-dog it, waste your time on it... did you really, REALLY send it??? Yes! Yes I did! And because you didn't take your time to work it, hang-dog it, and figure out the sequences, you didn't. Good for you!!! I find climbing is a fun waste of time. How you or I choose to use it is a personal choice. You seem to prefer wasting time by gaining intimate knowledge of a few features and how to get over them, while I prefer variety... I actually waste time both ways. Why limit your options to waste it? Why do I need to repeat myself? I said, because "How you or I choose to use it is a personal choice." Just please don't chip holds, retro-bolt or spend the day hogging a classic route. Those are evil deeds.
Repeat yourself as you deem necessary, I was just clarifying that I don't, in fact, spend all my time redpointing as you erroneously inferred. Most of my climbing time is spent trying to onsight.
I'm not really buying the "evil deeds" list. It's a little too much of a blanket-statement. Although, good fodder for plenty of flameage.
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cracklover
Feb 26, 2009, 6:06 PM
Post #74 of 106
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zeke_sf wrote: cracklover wrote: Just because I think a lot of you missed this... The OP is about to send his first *gym* 12. Mr. Togden - just so you know, gym grades don't mean shit. I can tell you that from personal experience, as a former gym rat. togden wrote: I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. togden wrote: I was climbing {in Little and Big Cottonwood} 2 or 3 times a week from last March till the snow kept me indoors. Now I climb at the local gym, Momentum (Where they just had the SCS Open National Comp) once or twice a week. Cheers, GO So? Gym climbing is harder. Just ask Angry.
Yeah, but Angry's full of shit. Just ask Majid.
GO
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zeke_sf
Feb 26, 2009, 6:10 PM
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cracklover wrote: zeke_sf wrote: cracklover wrote: Just because I think a lot of you missed this... The OP is about to send his first *gym* 12. Mr. Togden - just so you know, gym grades don't mean shit. I can tell you that from personal experience, as a former gym rat. togden wrote: I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. togden wrote: I was climbing {in Little and Big Cottonwood} 2 or 3 times a week from last March till the snow kept me indoors. Now I climb at the local gym, Momentum (Where they just had the SCS Open National Comp) once or twice a week. Cheers, GO So? Gym climbing is harder. Just ask Angry. Yeah, but Angry's full of shit. Just ask Majid. GO
Well, then I call in Jakedatc!
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