May 8, 2009, 6:40 PM
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Re: [dreday3000] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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I'm going to go with my old standby formula. Take the easiest climb in the last six months that you have fallen on. Subtract a letter grade from that. THAT is what kind if climber you are.
So, by that formula, are there any "5.12" climbers here? I am a .10c climber.
May 8, 2009, 6:42 PM
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Re: [kennoyce] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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kennoyce wrote:
I'd say around 99% of climbers can climb 5.12. It may take them some serious work and training, but I bet there is a very very small percentage of climbers that can't ever climb 5.12 if they work hard enough.
Exactly. Most people haven't a clue as to what their true potential is, and do not have the motivation and determination to figure it out. This isn't neccessarily a bad thing, just depends on what each individual is looking to get out of the sport they are active in.
May 8, 2009, 6:46 PM
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Re: [camhead] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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I'm going to go with my old standby formula. Take the easiest climb in the last six months that you have fallen on. Subtract a letter grade from that. THAT is what kind if climber you are.
So, by that formula, are there any "5.12" climbers here? I am a .10c climber.
I like your formula. Based on that criteria, I also am a .10c climber. I'm just glad that its in the last 6 months and not in the last year or I would be a 5.6 climber (I slipped on the crux of a 5.7 slab last summer).
May 8, 2009, 6:47 PM
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Re: [alamuerte] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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What a silly survey. As someone above pointed out...if you're willing to work the hell out of a soft 12a project, then just damn near anybody can redpoint 5.12. eventually.
A more appropriate and much more interesting question is "what percentage of self reported 5.12 sport climbers can even get up a 5.10d offwidth."
I'm reckoning it's either <1%, or Pancakes, baybay. Pancakes all the way.
May 8, 2009, 7:17 PM
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Re: [graniteboy] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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graniteboy wrote:
What a silly survey. As someone above pointed out...if you're willing to work the hell out of a soft 12a project, then just damn near anybody can redpoint 5.12. eventually.
A more appropriate and much more interesting question is "what percentage of self reported 5.12 sport climbers can even get up a 5.10d offwidth."
I'm reckoning it's either <1%, or Pancakes, baybay. Pancakes all the way.
Exactly, or how many people can make it to the top of Everest. There's not even 5th class on that. Everyone on rc.com is a 3rd class climber, at best.
May 8, 2009, 7:28 PM
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Re: [camhead] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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camhead wrote:
I'm going to go with my old standby formula. Take the easiest climb in the last six months that you have fallen on. Subtract a letter grade from that. THAT is what kind if climber you are.
So, by that formula, are there any "5.12" climbers here? I am a .10c climber.
Which .10d did you fall off of in the last 6 months? just curious, so I don't accidently decide to climb it, you know...
I'm a 5.10c climber by your criteria, too. woohoo, I climb as strongly as you do!
May 8, 2009, 7:31 PM
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Re: [cracklover] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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Oh, and I have absolutely no idea what the answer is to the question.
It is an interesting question, to me, though. Jay states that 5.12- is, these days, kind of an everyman's grade in sport climbing. It's so far below the cutting edge that it's basically considered the entry point.
So if it's true (and it probably is) that less than 10% of the climbing population has accomplished a 5.12 RP, even once, then by modern sport-climbing standards, most folks who call themselves climbers really really suck.
Or, to flip it around, perhaps we should say that based on the raw numbers, Jay's criterion must actually be wrong, and these supposedly entry level folks are, in truth, fairly elite athletes.
May 8, 2009, 7:37 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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lena_chita wrote:
camhead wrote:
I'm going to go with my old standby formula. Take the easiest climb in the last six months that you have fallen on. Subtract a letter grade from that. THAT is what kind if climber you are.
So, by that formula, are there any "5.12" climbers here? I am a .10c climber.
Which .10d did you fall off of in the last 6 months? just curious, so I don't accidently decide to climb it, you know...
I'm a 5.10c climber by your criteria, too. woohoo, I climb as strongly as you do!
oh dear. I meant to say "subtract a number grade."
I fell off of an 11c slab at the NRG a few weeks ago, right after clausti onsighted it.
May 8, 2009, 7:56 PM
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Re: [alamuerte] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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alamuerte wrote:
EDIT: let me make this clearer. 5.12. redpoint. sport. lead. outside.
From the OP. Many of you seem to be talking about this mythical "5.12" climber status. I would be willing to bet that even climbers we consider elite would not be able to achieve the level of competence in all disciplines to hit this mark. So I think that if you are talking 5.12a, redpoint, outside, now we are talking about something tangible. (I am even including those who project the tar out of a route, they deserve credit for their discipline).
Even with this more inclusive definition, I would still venture to say less than 10%.
(This post was edited by jupiter on May 8, 2009, 8:32 PM)
I'm going to go with my old standby formula. Take the easiest climb in the last six months that you have fallen on. Subtract a letter grade from that. THAT is what kind if climber you are.
So, by that formula, are there any "5.12" climbers here? I am a .10c climber.
Which .10d did you fall off of in the last 6 months? just curious, so I don't accidently decide to climb it, you know...
I'm a 5.10c climber by your criteria, too. woohoo, I climb as strongly as you do!
oh dear. I meant to say "subtract a number grade."
I fell off of an 11c slab at the NRG a few weeks ago, right after clausti onsighted it.
Does it count if a hold broke off a chossy 5.4? What if ate shit on some 4th class scree? Fuck me, I suck. 3rd class climber for life
May 8, 2009, 8:20 PM
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Re: [jupiter] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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jupiter wrote:
alamuerte wrote:
EDIT: let me make this clearer. 5.12. redpoint. sport. lead. outside.
From the OP. Many of you seem to be talking about this mythical "5.12" climber status. I would be willing to bet that even climbers we consider elite would not be able to achieve the level of competence in all disciplines to hit this mark. So I think that if you are talking 5.12a, redpoint, outside, now we are talking about something tangible. (I am even including those who project the tar out of a route, they deserve credit for their discipline).
Even with this more inclusive definition, I would still venture to say less than 10%.
I think that the OP has sufficiently clarified what he meant by "climb 5.12." What still makes the question hard to even speculate about is that he hasn't clarified what he means by a "climber"? For instance, the questions "What percentage of persons who have climbed at least once in the past year have redpointed at least one 5.12?" and "What percentage of persons who have sport climbed at least 300 days in the past 3 years, including 100 days in the past year, have redpointed 5.12?" have very different answers.
May 8, 2009, 8:23 PM
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Re: [camhead] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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camhead wrote:
I'm going to go with my old standby formula. Take the easiest climb in the last six months that you have fallen on. Subtract a letter grade from that. THAT is what kind if climber you are.
So, by that formula, are there any "5.12" climbers here? I am a .10c climber.
Not very good for trad climbers! A lot of folk have never fallen on pro, heh.
May 8, 2009, 8:25 PM
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Re: [camhead] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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camhead wrote:
oh dear. I meant to say "subtract a number grade." I fell off of an 11c slab at the NRG a few weeks ago, right after clausti onsighted it.
By this logic even Tommy Caldwell is an 11 climber, because I read he fell on a 5.12 pitch in the dark towards the top of Free Rider on his link up with the Nose.
A real 5.12 climber wouldn't have let this happen
(This post was edited by jupiter on May 8, 2009, 8:33 PM)
May 8, 2009, 8:34 PM
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Re: [camhead] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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camhead wrote:
I'm going to go with my old standby formula. Take the easiest climb in the last six months that you have fallen on. Subtract a letter grade from that. THAT is what kind if climber you are.
So, by that formula, are there any "5.12" climbers here? I am a .10c climber.
I like that formula. That would make me a .10d climber. That is pretty accurate. I usually say I am a 5.10/5.11 climber. That's what I'm going to use from now on.
sorry but I'm with Jay here, the OP still hasn't been clear enough. He still hasn't even clarified if he means currently sends 5.12, has in the past sent 5.12, could send a 5.12 with practice, really we have no idea what he wants to know.
May 8, 2009, 9:26 PM
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Re: [cracklover] What percent of 'climbers' can climb 5.12?
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cracklover wrote:
This notion of "potential" is totally stupid. Yeah, maybe we all have the "potential" to climb K2, if we just had the time, money, and motivation.
In the context of motor learning and development over your lifetime, it's totally not bullshit. In fact, it's believed that there is a window, starting right after you're born, that is open for developing "full" skill potential, but which is believed to close sometime during late adolescence/early adulthood.
This doesn't imply no one can get better at something as an adult, it just means, depending on their physical activities in their early life, many adults will never be able to achieve their full genetic physical potential. No matter how much you practice later on in life and regardless of time, money, and motivation.
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