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Gmburns2000
Jul 26, 2009, 9:29 PM
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Jeremiah has just posted his most recent thoughts on his frustration with today's climbing scene and the beauty of adventure: The Brotherhood of the Rope is short, but it doesn't hold anything back.
Are we too unethical? Should we be more adventurous? Is there anything that can or even should be done?
Personally, I don't think were are less ethical. I'll be commenting on this soon in another blog post, but I'll comment for the now with regards to this post. "Technology and gadgetry" is a part of nearly every part of society. At some point we have to find the adventure with what is available to us without slowing progress down. Otherwise, we may have given up in life altogether. The answer is that we need more creative people to push the boundaries of adventure. As ethics change, so does how we get there.
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jt512
Jul 26, 2009, 11:45 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: Jeremiah has just posted his most recent thoughts on his frustration with today's climbing scene and the beauty of adventure: The Brotherhood of the Rope is short, but it doesn't hold anything back.
Readers who manage to endure the insufferably melodramatic opening quote will be rewarded with the most pretentious and judgmental climbing writing they have ever seen.
Jay
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Gmburns2000
Jul 27, 2009, 12:16 AM
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jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Jeremiah has just posted his most recent thoughts on his frustration with today's climbing scene and the beauty of adventure: The Brotherhood of the Rope is short, but it doesn't hold anything back. Readers who manage to endure the insufferably melodramatic opening quote will be rewarded with the most pretentious and judgmental climbing writing they have ever seen. Jay
Well, he's certainly not in it to make everyone happy.
edit: readibility 
(This post was edited by Gmburns2000 on Jul 27, 2009, 12:18 AM)
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jt512
Jul 27, 2009, 12:31 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Jeremiah has just posted his most recent thoughts on his frustration with today's climbing scene and the beauty of adventure: The Brotherhood of the Rope is short, but it doesn't hold anything back. Readers who manage to endure the insufferably melodramatic opening quote will be rewarded with the most pretentious and judgmental climbing writing they have ever seen. Jay Well, he's certainly not in it to make everyone happy.
He's not making anyone unhappy either, except to the extent that they are unhappy that they will never get back the five minutes of their lives they spent reading such a ridiculous essay.
Jay
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Gmburns2000
Jul 27, 2009, 12:43 AM
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jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Jeremiah has just posted his most recent thoughts on his frustration with today's climbing scene and the beauty of adventure: The Brotherhood of the Rope is short, but it doesn't hold anything back. Readers who manage to endure the insufferably melodramatic opening quote will be rewarded with the most pretentious and judgmental climbing writing they have ever seen. Jay Well, he's certainly not in it to make everyone happy. He's not making anyone unhappy either, except to the extent that they are unhappy that they will never get back the five minutes of their lives they spent reading such a ridiculous essay. Jay
I think you'll find there are a lot of people unimpressed with the state of climbing today: where the gym "prepares" people for real rock and that the sport tick list is actually important to some people. It isn't all like that, but there's a significant population out there where this is all they know. It's really too bad.
I think whether you like this or not depends on where you stand.
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yankinoz
Jul 27, 2009, 1:05 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: I think you'll find there are a lot of people unimpressed with the state of climbing today
Or in 1972.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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jt512
Jul 27, 2009, 1:12 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Jeremiah has just posted his most recent thoughts on his frustration with today's climbing scene and the beauty of adventure: The Brotherhood of the Rope is short, but it doesn't hold anything back. Readers who manage to endure the insufferably melodramatic opening quote will be rewarded with the most pretentious and judgmental climbing writing they have ever seen. Jay Well, he's certainly not in it to make everyone happy. He's not making anyone unhappy either, except to the extent that they are unhappy that they will never get back the five minutes of their lives they spent reading such a ridiculous essay. Jay I think you'll find there are a lot of people unimpressed with the state of climbing today: where the gym "prepares" people for real rock and that the sport tick list is actually important to some people. It isn't all like that, but there's a significant population out there where this is all they know. It's really too bad.
Believing that it is "too bad" is merely narrow minded. Believing that it is a "proliferation of morally deteriorated climbers" is pompous and absurd.
Jay
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Gmburns2000
Jul 27, 2009, 1:43 AM
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yankinoz wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: I think you'll find there are a lot of people unimpressed with the state of climbing today Or in 1972. The more things change the more they stay the same.
Yeah, totally. For sure, things haven't changed in that regard.
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SpasticClimber
Jul 27, 2009, 2:16 AM
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I think his commentary reflects more on society in general rather than climbing specifically. His biggest concerns seems to be the lack of adventure in climbing, but this is really a social trend. Every where you go the government has made something illegal or added new restrictions to protect the stupid from themselves.
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happiegrrrl
Jul 27, 2009, 3:07 AM
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jt512 wrote: Readers..... will be rewarded with the most pretentious and judgmental climbing writing they have ever seen. Jay
I'd taje that as a compliment, Burns!
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jmeizis
Jul 27, 2009, 5:36 AM
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So says the morally deteriorated sport climber. I see a lot of insulting with very little to back it up. The person slinging the words pretentious and pompous might want to take a look in the mirror.
If you're going to do so much insulting then maybe be a little more specific so I've got something to work with. As of now you just seem like a whiny child who got his quickdraws taken away.
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james481
Jul 27, 2009, 6:06 AM
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jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Jeremiah has just posted his most recent thoughts on his frustration with today's climbing scene and the beauty of adventure: The Brotherhood of the Rope is short, but it doesn't hold anything back. Readers who manage to endure the insufferably melodramatic opening quote will be rewarded with the most pretentious and judgmental climbing writing they have ever seen. Jay Well, he's certainly not in it to make everyone happy. He's not making anyone unhappy either, except to the extent that they are unhappy that they will never get back the five minutes of their lives they spent reading such a ridiculous essay. Jay I think you'll find there are a lot of people unimpressed with the state of climbing today: where the gym "prepares" people for real rock and that the sport tick list is actually important to some people. It isn't all like that, but there's a significant population out there where this is all they know. It's really too bad. Believing that it is "too bad" is merely narrow minded. Believing that it is a "proliferation of morally deteriorated climbers" is pompous and absurd. Jay
Generally I don't agree with Jay on a great many topics (or how he chooses to present his views on those topics), but in this case, I think we're seeing eye to eye. This is a pretty silly "essay" in every regard. I don't know who the author is, but he seems confused between the ethics of climbing (as the Chouinard quote addresses) and the style of climbing. In other words, if I want to climb at the gym or nearest road-side crag I can find, top-rope every route or hang dog on every bolt, and spend my entire climbing career doing nothing that most of us would call adventurous, then that's my business. To imply that, because that might be my chosen style of climbing, I'm somehow degrading the sport as a whole is a crock of shit. In fact, I would say that the author of this piece degrades the sport of climbing (at least for those around him or reading his "writing") by being a judgmental douche, and he should keep his "good ole' days" mentality to himself and let the rest of us enjoy our climbing, no matter what style we choose to do it in.
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sungam
Jul 27, 2009, 6:27 AM
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Dude, handicapped people shouldn't get to see arches.
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uni_jim
Jul 27, 2009, 7:00 AM
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i see the truth in the essay, but to blanket the entire new generation of climbers as a bunch of wuss-ass-starbucks-slurping-avoid-adventure-like-black-plague gymbies is false.
I am the new generation of climbing. I have always been an "adventurer" of sorts. I would get lost in the woods near my house, i would (and still do) go on long canoe trips down the river, carrying everything we needed for our next several days in our boat. I was introduced to climbing in the gym, but was inspired to climb by a couple of my fathers nearly antique instructional mountaineering books*. These books did not drop me into a beta pool full of 5.16d bolt lines up featureless limestone. Instead, they inspired me to reach for long adventureous climbs. In those pages you could find images of tricouni nailed boots, compasses, wooden wedges, ice pitons, and terrodactyl ice axes. There were explanations on why modern climbers are adopting the new swami belts, and that a trip to the alps will require almost thirty carabiners.
These books got me outside with four meters of webbing, a carabiner, and a polypro rope to set up my own sketchy anchors to hip belay from (I would like to thank my broher now for ignorantly risking his life to help me test this new system ).
My methods have evolved, and I now have gear that climbing partners can trust. I also have not had to wedge an overhand knot for a while, as nuts and cams have taken that place.
I am of the new generation of climbers, i was not here to see the great sport climbing revolution, but i have clipped bolts. I was not here to marvel at chounard's new hard pitons, but i have pounded some BD's. I was not here when Tenzeng and Hillary made it to the top, but i am eager to start my alpine career later this year.
It is my preference to climb on clean gear, but my rockies experience has added pitons to my rack, and the occasional bolt is often welcome. Sport climbing can feel uninspiring to me, but once in a while i like to really push myself physically. I have run off to the hills to spend a weekend hanging in my etriers by myself, some of the climbers i know consider the lack of physical challenge a waste of time, but i appreciate the adventure.
The new generation of climbers is not constituted strictly of tofu-farting sport climbers. While sport climbing may be dominant, it is important to still see the dedicated alpinists, big wallers, adventure climbers, trad craggers, and all of the others who climb without labels.
I don't know how much of a jumble this is to read, but hopefully I did an okay job of defending the kids who are not bound by bolts...
*The books i found on my dads shelf were:
1. Mountaineering - From hill walking to Alpine climbing
Allan Blackchaw (c)1965
2. Bergsteigen Basic Rock Climbing
R.C. Alieth (c)1975
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dr_feelgood
Jul 27, 2009, 11:44 AM
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I guess it is necessary to lead no harder than 5.7 to understand true climbing ethics.
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Gmburns2000
Jul 27, 2009, 1:50 PM
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sungam wrote: Dude, handicapped people shouldn't get to see arches.
Heh. I can take that a million different ways, and yet, I have no clue how to take that.
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Gmburns2000
Jul 27, 2009, 1:50 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: jt512 wrote: Readers..... will be rewarded with the most pretentious and judgmental climbing writing they have ever seen. Jay I'd taje that as a compliment, Burns!
Thanks, but I didn't write it. Jeremiah did (Jmeizis).
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happiegrrrl
Jul 27, 2009, 3:00 PM
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I'm aware, but that's your blog partner, and this is your thread....
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jt512
Jul 27, 2009, 3:09 PM
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jmeizis wrote: So says the morally deteriorated sport climber.
So says the fake guide.
Jay
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Gmburns2000
Jul 27, 2009, 3:39 PM
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SpasticClimber wrote: I think his commentary reflects more on society in general rather than climbing specifically. His biggest concerns seems to be the lack of adventure in climbing, but this is really a social trend. Every where you go the government has made something illegal or added new restrictions to protect the stupid from themselves.
+1
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fresh
Jul 27, 2009, 4:15 PM
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yeah that was pretty painful to read.
in case anyone missed it, the point of sport climbing is mastery, precision, and execution in movement. it's not to reach the top of an objective by any means necessary, which is what chouinard was railing against.
what is pure to me in climbing is to look within oneself, find the greatest fear or greatest weakness, expose oneself to it, and overcome it. whether it's bolts that are guaranteeing safety, or nuts, or one's own climbing skill, who cares.
anyway I'm like a 5.11 sport climber and maybe 5.8-5.9 trad climber, so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
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jmeizis
Jul 27, 2009, 4:48 PM
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Like I said. start backing your comments up and I'll stop thinking of you as a sophistic windbag.
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jt512
Jul 27, 2009, 5:09 PM
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jmeizis wrote: Like I said. start backing your comments up and I'll stop thinking of you as a sophistic windbag.
I'll let you know when I actually care what you think of me.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 3, 2009, 1:22 AM)
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ryanb
Jul 27, 2009, 5:15 PM
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That blog post is nostalgic for a time that never happened.
The great Gaston he quotes was, in his time, regarded as a bit of a media whore...you think those perfect shots of him up high in a dapper sweater happened by accident?
Yvon spent his time pushing the grades as part of his adventures... that is why we remember him as something besides a business man.
My dad learned to climb during a year spent in Italy in the 50's and hooked up with the berkley sierra club crew on his return to California. I asked him once, when i was young, about what it was like to climb during that golden era of big first ascents and the birth of clean climbing and hard free climbing. He explained that he, and most other recreational climbers he knew, were content to spend there time nailing their way up short well traveled climbs with lots of aid (you think those pin scars got there from just a few ascents?).
There always has been and always will be parts of the climbing community content to not be on the cutting edge, there will also be those who push their own limits and the limits of the sport. Some will do it in terms of pure difficulty and some will do it in the big mountains, the very best will do it in both. The only people throwing down hard fa's and ffa's in the mountains are also amongst the best boulders, sport climbers and most dedicated gym rats around.
From your friends writing it seems he lacks the dedication to master the modern skills of training and climbing hard and feels the need to denigrate those who do.
Pity.
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