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simonbrown
Sep 7, 2009, 3:53 PM
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hi, i am troubling in it.
This zone donot have the pure nature crag. But there are about 30 quarries. And these quarries were abandened at 10 years ago and all are grinite rock.
I try to making two new routes at last two week.
Here is some photoes. The difficult are marked at 5.12a and 5.10c.
Should i make new routes or stop it and closed the route? Help me plz.
Thanks all
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simonbrown
Sep 7, 2009, 4:02 PM
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Here is route 2.
It's seem need more clean.
Did i make some mistake on the routes, the bolts position?
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milesenoell
Sep 7, 2009, 4:03 PM
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Here, now they are embedded for you.
I thought it was a troll until I looked at the pics, but it does appear that you have a bona fide sport crag. Ethics don't appear to be in question, just maybe permission. Bolt on!
(This post was edited by ddt on Sep 9, 2009, 8:40 AM)
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Lazlo
Sep 7, 2009, 4:04 PM
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simonbrown wrote: hi, i am troubling in it. This zone donot have the pure nature crag. But there are about 30 quarries. And these quarries were abandened at 10 years ago and all are grinite rock. I try to making two new routes at last two week. Here is some photoes. The difficult are marked at 5.12a and 5.10c. Should i make new routes or stop it and closed the route? Help me plz. Thanks all
That bolt behind your leg looks horribly placed. Looks like it would flip you upside down in an instant.
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milesenoell
Sep 7, 2009, 4:11 PM
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That one has cracks so people might question it, but I'm not one of those people. How's the rock quality? It looks like it may not be all that great. As for bolt spacing, they are pretty tight, but again, I'm not the sort to heckle you too hard for that.
(This post was edited by ddt on Sep 9, 2009, 8:39 AM)
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simonbrown
Sep 7, 2009, 4:18 PM
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In reply to: That bolt behind your leg looks horribly placed. Looks like it would flip you upside down in an instant.
Hi Lazlo,
How to fix it? where should i move the bolt to?
The belay's rope is so close to the rock.
Or, I think the belayer should at the right position is better. Is it right?
(This post was edited by simonbrown on Sep 8, 2009, 3:16 AM)
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simonbrown
Sep 7, 2009, 4:36 PM
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milesenoell wrote: That one has cracks so people might question it, but I'm not one of those people. How's the rock quality? It looks like it may not be all that great. As for bolt spacing, they are pretty tight, but again, I'm not the sort to heckle you too hard for that.
Many people question it in fact.
You know the essence.
In this area nobody bolted on a quarry before . I am from China.
All bolts are burrowed at sounds "ding" place, not "dong" position. But the "dong" is exist around the "ding". Is it the rock quality?
Maybe i should clean all the "dong" rock. Afterword, I open the routes.
(This post was edited by simonbrown on Sep 7, 2009, 8:06 PM)
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simonbrown
Sep 7, 2009, 4:49 PM
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The crag has been subjected to blasting.
So, I am not sure the rock quality.
Injured internal? I dont know.
I only used a hammer to knock again and again and look around to find the crackle to declare the rock's integrity. But i am not the rock professional.
What's your experience?
(This post was edited by simonbrown on Sep 7, 2009, 4:55 PM)
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USnavy
Sep 7, 2009, 5:03 PM
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There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing.
The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes.
Bolting takes a long time (to do right) and I don’t know anyone that likes to hang in climbing shoes well rap bolting. 
Second you said "And the bolt is Hilti HSA M10*90. And no glue."
Expansion bolts are not glued into place.
That’s why they are called "expansion" bolts.
They work of the principle of friction created by expansion of a pin or sleeve.
You have a wrench attached to your harness in one of the pictures.
That implies you did not use a torque wrench and thus probably applied the incorrect torque values to the bolts.
Particularly I am concerned with this picture:
The second and fourth bolts are very close to a crack that obviously separates the rock in two separate pieces in those places.
Putting a bolt that close to a large crack can cause the bolt placement to fail.
The fifth bolt is rather close to a flake.
It’s hard to tell how close but it looks like its close enough that as the draw follows the climber up and over it could pin itself between the flake and hanger.
That is also a very serious issue if the flake is indeed close enough to pin the biner.
The first bolt is also rather close to a large horizontal crack under the bolt.
If this rock is hard (upwards of 6000 psi) then it will probably be ok.
But if this is soft rock that could also prove to be a dangerous bolt placement especially considering the rather high impact force that must be absorbed by the first bolt.
Next, if this is soft rock the bolts you are using are NOT the proper bolts to use.
The bolts you pictured are for medium / hard and hard rock only.
If this is soft rock use a Power-Bolt or glue-in bolt.
Lastly, regarding your first route, it seems the route goes upwards then curves off sharply to a traverse.
It’s generally not a good idea to bolt a route like that.
It creates rope drag, makes for swinging falls, and it’s annoying.
It appears there is more room to put the top out anchors higher.
If it is possible to do so, it would likely be better to move the top out anchors higher so the exiting moves don’t consist of vertical climbing that instantly turns into a purely horizontal traverse.
Also, traversing routes make it extremely hard if not impossible to retrieve your draws on the way back down.
Your second must retrieve them for you on TR.
The second to last bolt in your first set of pictures is also not well placed.
With the draw you have clipped in the pic, the bottom biner is resting a few inches inwards of a ledge.
This means if a climber falls the rope will run 90 degrees over the ledge, 90 degrees upwards then 180 degrees back downwards.
This will create for a harder catch, more drag, and it will annihilate your rope since it will be forcing the rope to run over the ledge at such a serious angle.
There are many other things wrong I see but I am getting tired of typing.
You need to get with someone experienced for your first few bolting projects.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Sep 7, 2009, 5:28 PM)
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rtwilli4
Sep 7, 2009, 5:46 PM
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Route #1, the one with the right traverse at the top, looks like a lot of fun. BUT, where I'm from, that is a highball boulder problem.
Bolting is a serious undertaking. Once you decide to bolt a climb or an area, it is your responsibility to make sure that you are doing it correctly so that it will last, and stay safe.
I'm not going to tell you to stop bolting or that you don't know what you are doing, but I will tell you that it is apparent that you don't have a lot of experience bolting. That's OK, everyone has to learn sometime. BUT, you will learn a lot more and you will create a much more user friendly crag if you have an experienced bolter help you out, in person.
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simonbrown
Sep 7, 2009, 7:57 PM
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Mr. USnavy is very careful. Good insight!
Thank you very much. By the way, typing is useful to finger power,maybe. So i think you should typing more.
I have six pairs shoes. Some big, Some little. Some for competition, Some for man-made wall and some for nature crag.
The second route is made for a advertisement for a new style SUV. I think it's benefit for popularize the climbing sports in China. Yes, it's a good thing!
Unfortunally i drived wrong way at the morning and caused me delay to the movie field. I only have 2.5 hour to finish it. To set a top rope belay system and make three top bolt, i used an hour. Time is pressing.
The director use three scenes from bolt#4 to #6.
And bolt#1 and #2 is still not bolted until now.
I think this route need more cleaning at first. Then bolt again.
I dont have enough bolt experience.
Thanks you all.
To the route one. Can i use the long runner? And the turn of the rock is not sharp.
You know the route is not long.And if i set the top at right side, the route difficlut will down. Below the bolt#4, the difficluty of every move is average about 5.12a. If the route direction is right, it's easy more. And the right side is a hillside. So i set this traversing.
First route is not long. The rope is enough. When i leading climbed to the top, when do the sencond times figure eight to my harness, i can drop long enough rope to land, and the belayer can make this segment rope sense enough to control the swing when i got the first quickdraw. If i didn't do this, the swing happened in a flat plane. I dont think it's dangerous.
About the "The second to last bolt in your first set of pictures is also not well placed.
With the draw you have clipped in the pic, the bottom biner is resting a few inches inwards of a ledge.
This means if a climber falls the rope will run 90 degrees over the ledge, 90 degrees upwards then 180 degrees back downwards.
This will create for a harder catch, more drag, and it will annihilate your rope since it will be forcing the rope to run over the ledge at such a serious angle. "
I post move pics here.
And finally, what about the quarry rock zone?
(This post was edited by simonbrown on Sep 8, 2009, 3:13 AM)
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chossmonkey
Sep 7, 2009, 11:08 PM
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USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes.
You are retarded.
I suppose this guy doesn't know what he is doing either?
FYI, he has probably put up more routes than you have climbed.
While I try not to make a habit of it I've bolted plenty of routes in climbing shoes. A good pair of shoes shouldn't hurt that bad.
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chossmonkey
Sep 7, 2009, 11:12 PM
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How close is that bolt to the seam?
You should try to keep them at least the length of the bolt away from weaknesses in the rock.
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clc
Sep 7, 2009, 11:45 PM
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USnavy there is no nice way to say this, you sound like a complete fool. Once you have climbed for a few years and set routes you will realize how totally quacked some of your observations are. Some of your comments are fine, but I doubt you will be climbing his little routes in china anyway.It's stupid to even say but yes routes can be bolted while wearing rock shoes. And I've never used a torque wrench or seen a person use such a wrench for the bolts. I'm sure he knows how the bolt works.
How many routes have you put up any(# bolts)??
(This post was edited by clc on Sep 7, 2009, 11:48 PM)
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majid_sabet
Sep 7, 2009, 11:52 PM
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what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ?
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milesenoell
Sep 8, 2009, 1:23 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ?
So, I take it you didn't bother to read his post about how this was for a video shoot?
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simonbrown
Sep 8, 2009, 3:45 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ?
I don't think so.
First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet.
I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe.
I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose.
Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place.
(This post was edited by simonbrown on Sep 8, 2009, 3:48 AM)
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jt512
Sep 8, 2009, 3:57 AM
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USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes.
You're a fucking idiot.
Jay
Edit: GUd (and with my own photo!)
(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 8, 2009, 3:58 AM)
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jt512
Sep 8, 2009, 4:00 AM
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chossmonkey wrote: USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes. You are retarded. I suppose this guy doesn't know what he is doing either? FYI, he has probably put up more routes than you have climbed.
In a good year, that guy has put up more routes than exist in USNavy's whole state.
Jay
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el_layclimber
Sep 8, 2009, 4:05 AM
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simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ? I don't think so. First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet. I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe. I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose. Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place.
Simon, Wo huaiyi ni bu shi zhongguo ren. Ni de mingzi jiao shenme? Wu wen: jun bu yi troll hu?
What province is the route in?
It's overbolted no matter where it is.
(This post was edited by el_layclimber on Sep 8, 2009, 4:14 AM)
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simonbrown
Sep 8, 2009, 4:16 AM
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el_layclimber wrote: simonbrown wrote: majid_sabet wrote: what is the point of bolting a 10 feet high rock when most bouldering rate can climb it with a silly pad below them ? I don't think so. First this route is 7 meters high not 10feet. I know some boulder problem is even 15 meters high. But you know climbing is not popular in China and so many rookie don't have enough experience to jump from so high position especially for girls. It's not every Chinese can KongFu. If not bolted, they will not climb maybe. I am not sure the quarry. I set more and more bolts in the wall. If some climber think it's too many bolts, I think you can use some of them. It's your choose. Thanks. Welcome to China. An amazing place. Simon, 你的中文名字是什麽？ 我懷疑你不是中國人。 吾問：君不亦troll乎？ What province is the route in? It's overbolted no matter where it is.
Hi Sir,
My location is Suzhou. A famous traditional city in China. Neayby Shanghai. Maybe you know it.
Welcome to China, Welcome to Suzhou.
(This post was edited by ddt on Sep 9, 2009, 8:42 AM)
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zchandran
Sep 8, 2009, 5:10 AM
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jt512 wrote: chossmonkey wrote: USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes. You are retarded. I suppose this guy doesn't know what he is doing either? [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/286941-largest_76392.jpg[/image] FYI, he has probably put up more routes than you have climbed. In a good year, that guy has put up more routes than exist in USNavy's whole state. Jay
Ok, I'm new to trad and I don't even know who that is in the picture, but I'm going to ask the first dumb noob question that came to mind, because I'm missing something:
Why is he bolting this route when the crack looks like it's so easy to protect?
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the_leech
Sep 8, 2009, 5:17 AM
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USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing.
Simonbrown is rubber and you're glue.
Whatever you say bounces off him and sticks to you.
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jt512
Sep 8, 2009, 5:19 AM
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zchandran wrote: jt512 wrote: chossmonkey wrote: USnavy wrote: There is no nice way to put this so I am going to be frank. You don’t know what you are doing. The first thing that tipped me off was the fact you were bolting in climbing shoes. You are retarded. I suppose this guy doesn't know what he is doing either? [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/286941-largest_76392.jpg[/image] FYI, he has probably put up more routes than you have climbed. In a good year, that guy has put up more routes than exist in USNavy's whole state. Jay Ok, I'm new to trad and I don't even know who that is in the picture, but I'm going to ask the first dumb noob question that came to mind, because I'm missing something: Why is he bolting this route when the crack looks like it's so easy to protect?
You're right: you're missing something.
Jay
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