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villageidiot
Sep 29, 2009, 5:09 AM
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How many red point attempts are you willing to make on a route (readily accessible and aesthetically pleasing). When and why do you give up?
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jt512
Sep 29, 2009, 5:38 AM
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villageidiot wrote: How many red point attempts are you willing to make on a route (readily accessible and aesthetically pleasing). When and why do you give up?
As many as it takes; and, I don't, respectively.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 29, 2009, 5:38 AM)
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notapplicable
Sep 29, 2009, 6:12 AM
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My normal approach is to just man up and onsight it instead of wanking around on the same route all day.
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kriso9tails
Sep 29, 2009, 6:19 AM
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I'm not really into redpointing, but I'll make as many onsight attempts as it takes to get a clean ascent. It's tough because I can never use the same belayer twice.
I'm not sure that I've ever given up on a route. Road trips end and sometimes I don't get a chance to go back and snag the redpoint. Still, somewhere in my mind I want to get back on and get a clean ascent if I get the chance again. I suppose I wouldn't go very far out of my way to put in another burn on an ugly line though; I heard climbing was supposed to be enjoyable or something.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Sep 29, 2009, 6:30 AM)
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kriso9tails
Sep 29, 2009, 6:21 AM
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notapplicable wrote: My normal approach is to just man up and onsight it instead of wanking around on the same route all day only climb routes that are easy and safe enough to comfortably onsight.
fixt (at no extra charge)
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qwert
Sep 29, 2009, 9:45 AM
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kriso9tails wrote: I'm not really into redpointing, but I'll make as many onsight attempts as it takes to get a clean ascent. It's tough because I can never use the same belayer twice.
Other than that: it depends
Somone that is totally into sport climbing and obsessed with penis lengths grades might spend dozends of trys or months on a route, whereas others only do stuff that they can onsight.
My way (and i think its the best way) is somewhat in the middle.
If i try a route and cant onsight it i try to judge how far it is over my level. If the route is nice, and i see a chance to do it within a reasonable amount of tries i come back to it.
If i realize that it is way over the top for me, i go for something easier. Shure, i could project action directe, but what good would it be to always fall from the start holds from now to eternity, just greasing them up?
But the same applies to trad (or some kind of trad/ sport mix that some routes here have) where you not only have to get the moves, but also the pro.
qwert
(This post was edited by qwert on Sep 29, 2009, 9:46 AM)
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currupt4130
Sep 29, 2009, 11:35 AM
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I tend to climb a route once. If I don't onsight it I leave it alone for a little bit and either come back to it that day or put a tick in my guide book to come back to it. I like having clean ascents but by god I'm not obsessed with them. Certain routes hold more weight than others. I chossy piece of shit 5.10 that I didn't onsight because it sucked would never get the priority that a beautiful aesthetic 5.11 would.
It took me about six months to red point one climb at the New, Discombobulated. I first got on it when I started breaking into the 5.11 grade and probably got on it 4 or 5 times the whole time I was trying to red point it.
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Jnclk
Sep 29, 2009, 12:19 PM
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kriso9tails wrote: I'm not really into redpointing, but I'll make as many onsight attempts as it takes to get a clean ascent. It's tough because I can never use the same belayer twice.
What are you talking about? You only get one onsight attempt.
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rhyswynn
Sep 29, 2009, 1:21 PM
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Jnclk wrote: kriso9tails wrote: I'll make as many onsight attempts as it takes to get a clean ascent. It's tough because I can never use the same belayer twice. What are you talking about? You only get one onsight attempt.
Apparently you need more coffee before reading this forum. 
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Jnclk
Sep 29, 2009, 1:25 PM
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Apparantly you need to elaborate. What does having a different belayer have to do with it?
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time2clmb
Sep 29, 2009, 1:40 PM
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Jnclk wrote: Apparantly you need to elaborate. What does having a different belayer have to do with it?
lol sense of humour / sarcasm meter broken?
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lena_chita
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Sep 29, 2009, 2:32 PM
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villageidiot wrote: How many red point attempts are you willing to make on a route (readily accessible and aesthetically pleasing). When and why do you give up?
I have never yet had a route that took me more than ~10-12 attempts. Most of my redpoints so far were <5 attempts.
But if it is a route I want to send, and the route I believe I could send, I would be wiling to come back to it as many times as necessary. Heck, I just sent one of those yesterday. I was going to come back to it over and over, until it was done. Backing away from it would have been more frustrating than having to keep working it.
The key for me is that i have to believe that the route is doable for me.
There are some routes that I have dogged and felt that the effort involved in redpointing them was not worth it at the time. I backed off, worked on other routes of the same grade, or slightly easier, and often ended up coming back after a year or two, and sending after just a couple of tries.
There are routes like this currently in the "backburner" on my hangdog list. I am confident that I will send them, but I feel that I will send them with relative ease later, if I back off and work on something else for now, instead of taking the brute-force approach and working the route 30-40-50 times.
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xaniel2000
Sep 29, 2009, 2:38 PM
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It depends on the situation...
On the weekend warrior road trips to crags accessible from Chicago, we tend to do a lot of onsight attempts, followed either by a send or a hang dog lead, then setup a top rope for everybody else who wants to try, then move on.
On longer trips where time is less constrained, we'll sit at a wall for a few hours and work moves. Of course, the route has to be worth the time. We try and find out-of-the-way routes with longer approaches for that type of redpoint work, but typically we're friendly guys and will let nice folks climb on our gear and/or top ropes if we're at a 'main attraction' type of climb
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qwert
Sep 29, 2009, 2:49 PM
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Jnclk wrote: Apparantly you need to elaborate. What does having a different belayer have to do with it?
YMMD!
Keep on fighting the good fight!
Them onsight cheaters need to be culled!
qwert
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jt512
Sep 29, 2009, 3:01 PM
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qwert wrote: Jnclk wrote: Apparantly you need to elaborate. What does having a different belayer have to do with it? YMMD! Keep on fighting the good fight! Them onsight cheaters need to be culled! qwert
Those Pennsylvania climbers are real ethics Nazis.
Jay
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notapplicable
Sep 29, 2009, 3:02 PM
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kriso9tails wrote: notapplicable wrote: My normal approach is to just man up and onsight it instead of wanking around on the same route all day only climb routes that are easy and safe enough to comfortably onsight. fixt (at no extra charge)
Safe? What do you think I am, a pussy ass sport climber?
No way man. Hell if it's a 3 or 4 star route I usually solo it to get that full experience.
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steinmethod
Sep 29, 2009, 3:08 PM
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If I dont onsite the climb i will give another 2-3 goes on it that same day. After that I find I get to frustrated and end up coming back to it the next day. To date my longest red point took about 12 trys (12b). I was pretty happy with that since that was my first 12b redpoint. :)
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camhead
Sep 29, 2009, 3:14 PM
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the most goes I have ever given a route are probably 20 or so. I have still not sent the route, but I will not say that I've given up.
The most goes I've given a route that I've actually sent is probably four.
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Gmburns2000
Sep 29, 2009, 3:22 PM
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I'll rarely ever try a route a second time in the same day. If I redpoint a route then it happens days, weeks, or months after the onsight attempt.
I usually want to climb all the routes I get on clean. I don't know if I care if I always want to get them clean the first time, though. If I hang or fall then I usually want to go back, but time / opportunities don't always present themselves efficiently in relation to everything else I want to do.
For me, climbing the same thing over and over again on the same day is really, really boring. Shit, I find half the classic routes in the 'Gunks aren't interesting because "I did that route last year."
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jt512
Sep 29, 2009, 3:31 PM
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It's amusing that almost everyone in the thread defines a redpoint as a route that they tried to onsight, and failed. There's a strong onsight bias at this website.
Jay
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qwert
Sep 29, 2009, 3:45 PM
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jt512 wrote: It's amusing that almost everyone in the thread defines a redpoint as a route that they tried to onsight, and failed. There's a strong onsight bias at this website. Jay
I would guess its different in higher grades (or does someone like sharma really think "yeah, i can onsight that thing!" when going for the next magazine cover route?) but for most normal climbers The first try almost always involves a "yes, i can do that" feeling.
And for those that also do trad its probably even more so.
I am not much into trad (forcedly so), but i would guess not many people start routes where they know that they will have to test their gear. Guess that mindset also stays for a sport trip.
qwert
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Gmburns2000
Sep 29, 2009, 3:49 PM
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jt512 wrote: It's amusing that almost everyone in the thread defines a redpoint as a route that they tried to onsight, and failed. There's a strong onsight bias at this website. Jay
well, working multi-pitch trad routes doesn't seem to me to be the norm. The idea is to go up and go up clean, not just for style points but also because it is generally safer.
I know I'll get flamed for that last point, but I do believe it is a part of why trad is generally an onsight style vs. sport being more open to working routes (i.e. - rapping down to scope the holds, working certain sections at a time, etc).
I don't climb routes specifically to onsight them or redpoint them. I climb them to climb them. Whether it is sport or trad tends to define the style that I find acceptable, and my short attention span tends to define how often I try routes that I've previously failed on.
So I guess by definition I try to onsight stuff because I don't find the appeal in trying something over and over and over again. Knock it off and move on. If I fail, then wait until I'm ready to knock it off. If and when I do, knock it off and move on.
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jt512
Sep 29, 2009, 3:55 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: It's amusing that almost everyone in the thread defines a redpoint as a route that they tried to onsight, and failed. There's a strong onsight bias at this website. Jay well, working multi-pitch trad routes doesn't seem to me to be the norm.
So, the majority of participants in a thread entitled "Red Pointing" are talking about (multi-pitch) trad climbing? That's even weirder.
Jay
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fresh
Sep 29, 2009, 3:58 PM
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I probably tried my first 12a (things as they are now at rumney) about 60-70 times. but that's also because it was a 3-bolt boulder problem, and it was really easy to try it over and over. I imagine for longer routes I wouldn't want to put in more than 2-3 burns a day.
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crazy_fingers84
Sep 29, 2009, 4:15 PM
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many attempts... that is if there is nothing else that sparks my interest. I am currently projecting a route that is 2 grades harder than my best redpoint. I have done all the other routes in the area, and it is at my local crag. I may very well try this route 30+ times.
I dont think I would limit myself and say "I will only attempt this route X number of times". If I get bored with it though, I will quit.
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