How in the heck can one of the world's largest outdoor stores make the decision not to stock the full range of one of the world's most popular climbing shoes?

I was looking forward to using my 20% off coupon on a new pair of Galileos, but they don't carry them any longer.

Their shoe selection sucks balls right now. WTF happened?

I was looking forward to using my 20% off coupon on a new pair of Galileos, but they don't carry them any longer.

Their shoe selection sucks balls right now. WTF happened?

REI is sitting very precariously on their second strike with me.

Insofar as I can tell, they've realized that their biggest market is with people who have no intention of actually putting their products to their intended use. For that end, quantity beats quality.

They're well on their way to becoming another Eddie Bauer.

I can understand catering to the masses, but that doesn't mean they should ignore the elite

I was looking forward to using my 20% off coupon on a new pair of Galileos, but they don't carry them any longer.

Their shoe selection sucks balls right now. WTF happened?

The elite know exactly what they want (model and size) and they know where to get it besides enormous general retailers. If they're really elite, they prodeal their shoes anyway.

Perhaps they are just trying to spare you the tragedy of ordering yet another pair of Mythos?

You should try on a pair of the 45’s (that’s huge) … In Mythos I wear a 39 = to a 6.5 USM in that shoe (they are comfortable enough to climb around all day)…. In 5.10, I wear my everyday shoe size , 42 = to 9 USM. you should go back and try on a pair of the 45's...

You should try on a pair of the 45’s (that’s huge) … In Mythos I wear a 39 = to a 6.5 USM in that shoe (they are comfortable enough to climb around all day)…. In 5.10, I wear my everyday shoe size , 42 = to 9 USM. you should go back and try on a pair of the 45's...

How in the heck can one of the world's largest outdoor stores make the decision not to stock the full range of one of the world's most popular climbing shoes?

You'd think that REI would have enough VSC (very serious climber) customers to at least offer some decent shoes online. I can understand catering to the masses, but that doesn't mean they should ignore the elite (i.e. - me).

I know people who wear 12.5 street and 42 in mythos. Those shoes suck ass unless you wear them so tight they stop feeling like floppy socks with slippery rubber on em.

I just want someone to listen to me, to tell me that everything is going to be OK and that I am not alone in this cruel world.

I'm logging off now, guys. I need some time to myself.

They're pretty much the trad shoe of choice in North Carolina. I have no use for an uncomfortable shoe for short sport routes.

just get what you want at moosejaw, 15% off, no tax, free shipping, 5% back in "rewards points", 5% cash back through ebates

Dingus, I get that they might not want to stock it as a regular thing in their stores, but it's a different matter entirely for the company to say that if it's above a size 45, they'll buy it for you but won't let you apply their sale discounts, dividends, or anything else.

Yes how can they do that?

Well, with item movement information, for starters. They have software to analyze the sales performance of clothing goods sold in the past. They rely on that information to make inteligent guesses about next season's stock.

The apparel industry is TOUGH. See you gotta buy next summer's clothing and shoe lines between now and Christmas, to get them built and delivered to your stores on time.

How many size 12.5 canoes, er, Mythos, will be needed in Phoenix next summer? Sacramento? Philadelphia? Will the weather have an impact on sales?

The average apparel retailer, even the highest end retailers, sell typically less than 50% of their top line merchandise at full list retail price. For a given range of clothing (size range) the bell curve serves well. The bulk of the sales will be in the 'money sizes' of the curve. The outliers do not make any money at all, strictly loss leader.

Then the markdowns begin. A lot of retailers will mark down goods once, twice or even three times. Others mark down once and then sell any remaining goods to companies like SierraTradingPost, reasoning that its cheaper in the long run to just get rid of unsold merch than to store it (Cost of storage and capital locked up in merchandise is STAGGERING)

Shoes present a particularly challenging retail environment. Shoe retailers order a range of shoes for a given style and then allocate the order to their various stores.

After a month of sales what they end up with are fractured bell curves all over their enterprise, fractured ranges.

Do they just mark them down and push them out the front door? Some do.

Do they try to consolidate all the broken and unsellable ranges from all stores into complete ranges into the stores that DO sell them?

Some do that too. Depends on the cost of goods and the cost of moving them around. Good retailers analyze all this information before deciding what to do.

Just *finding* an unsold pair of shoes, in the back room of the typical shoe selling store or area?

If you've never tried it.... ask if you can go back into the stock room with your sales clerk some time, just so you know what they have to go through (only SOME shoe clerks are smoking pot when they claim to be looking for your shoes, the rest are simply lost).

Now REI is among the better run outdoor apparel retailers, I shit you not. They DO analyze movement data and they don't stock shit for simple bragging rights. They stock it to sell it and get a return on their owners' investments (us!)

DMT

Don't confuse me with facts. I just bwant what I want.
This is kinda funny since I believe I remember DMT knocking rei bad one time. They pretty much lost my business when I ask them about the difference in the auto belay function between a guide and a reverso. They told me they couldn't tell me. If I didn't know how to use the device they wouldn't explain it to me. I almost told that guy what an asshole he was but bit my tongue, was polite, and got to talk to the climbing guy when he got off the little wall. He did not sound like he knew what he was talking about so I didn't buy either. I did not buy the gift card for my friends birthday that I came in for either. Screw em. I'll shop elsewhere.

This is kinda funny since I believe I remember DMT knocking rei bad one time.

Good point. But do keep in mind REI won't get anywhere close to the same gross margin on a customer order of 1 pair vs, the 10,000-pair seasonal buy.

Why would a retailer want to discount a special-order to begin with? They would make even less money and perhaps take a loss.

Sale discounts in apparel are typically designed to move non-selling merchandise out the door, or are funded by suppliers who want to move product out THEIR DOORS. Outdoor apparel retailers typically do not fund their season lead-in sales - the suppliers do this by reducing cost with an agreement that the retailer will also reduce sale price - presto, seasonal sale designed to sell more Marmot than Arc Teryx for example.

The retailes fund their season-ender sales but again, the purpose of this is tpo get rid of unsold merchadise to free up warehouse and store space for items that do sell at full price.

Full price sell thru.. very important concept to leading apparel retailers. One almost-guaranteed full price sell thru is customer special orders.

All retailers vary of course. But when you compare best in class performers you'll see similar management tactics.

Don't get me started on grocery...

DMT

Of course they don't profit the same from a special order, but they take pretty big losses on their return policy as well.

They keep doing it because that sort of customer service keeps people coming back to REI, even if they take an occasional loss from it.

In my case, I feel like I got bad customer service and ended up realizing that I don't even get a cost benefit from shopping at REI over my local store.

= If they can't offer either service or price advantages over the little guys, then what have they got?

I feel like I've got no reason to go back for anything now that I've actually taken the time to compare prices.

What a ridiculous story. You want to actually learn something from talking to an REI sales clerk? Why? If you want knowledgeable clerks, go to a local climbing store. If you want chain outdoor retail, you know where to go.

No need to get disgruntled about it.

GO

Do they? What sort of numbers are we talking here? How BIG are these losses exactly???


If it lost them money they would not do it. Period.

Suppliers play a huge role in that return policy, btw.

On the whole, they're going to lose a pretty good chunk of change from it, but they do it because that service leads to a net profit from return business...

Crack some heads and light just may creep in!


Well they can't and never could offer service advantages. Sorry to break that to you. But you are right as rain - if you can't realize a price advantage by shopping at REI, then they got nothing; one trick pony. Oh and the fact that often they are the ONLY pony.


Oh you'll be back. You're American, right?

DMT

So are they losing a good chunk of change or making one?

Cheers!
DMT

I was looking forward to using my 20% off coupon on a new pair of Galileos, but they don't carry them any longer.

Their shoe selection sucks balls right now. WTF happened?

Just so you guys don't think it's only for you bigger sizes.

I can't even try on shoes at REI. Any time I've been in they don't carry ANY model in a size 4 women's. I guess it's just not the average climber's size.

Damn, cause I sure feel like an average climber...

That being said, there are perks. My "small feet discount" makes up for the cost of shipping the wrong fit back.

But it means that REI will only get my money in other ways...their kid's shoe/sock section can be awesome!

ls

At any rate, I just saw a 20% off coupon for Backcountry.com on the New Hot Deals thread. They are shipping a pair of Galileos directly to my house for free.

Suck on that, REI.

I just happened to stop in rei and thought I would ask. I got my answer by asking on rc.com. I also get disgruntled easy. I also bought most of my gear from climbing shops. I don't have a local climbing shop but I stop at the ones at seneca and the nrg when there. I bought most of my rack at pburgh climbing shops, mountain dreams and exkursions.

Insofar as I can tell, they've realized that their biggest market is with people who have no intention of actually putting their products to their intended use. For that end, quantity beats quality.

They're well on their way to becoming another Eddie Bauer.

You are just now realizing this?

I thought this had been common knowledge for nearly the last decade?

Aside from the fact that you'd have to have a giant foot to need a size 45 in that shoe, think about the fact that you are going to a huge corporately owned outdoor sports retailer in which about 5% of the merchandise is climbing related.

Secondly, you are going to one in a part of the state that is at least two hours from any climbing and 4 hours from the bulk of the climbing.

Finally, don't forget that while REI is pretending to be a cool local non-profit "co-op," they are like the Wal-Mart of outdoor stores. They hire anyone who has a pair of hiking shoes and needs a job, and pay them $8 bucks and hour while their Pres. makes over $6 million a year.

Secondly, you are going to one in a part of the state that is at least two hours from any climbing and 4 hours from the bulk of the climbing.

You have facts to support that last statement? The CEO makes a pretty penny, but not nearly that much. Check out their financials:
http://www.rei.com/...trei/REIComp2008.pdf

REI as a company does not carry the shoe above a 45 (standard for stores generally is to carry up to 48 in shoes) and will not honor their discount on it.

It has nothing to do with store location.

I'm not a bigfoot, but I call BS on the above. From what I see, size 48 equates to 15 US. I kind of doubt you can walk into Neptune's (or wherever) and try on a bunch of size 15 rock climbing (or any other) shoes. If I'm wrong on this, I apologize and I'll chalk it up to "you learn something new everyday."

LaSportiva sizing chart:
[image]http://www.sportiva.com/images/sizechart.gif[/image]

A 48 is smaller than a 14.

LaSportiva sizing chart:
[image]http://www.sportiva.com/images/sizechart.gif[/image]

A 48 is smaller than a 14.

Interesting, my quick Internet search gave a different conversion, but La Sportiva's is the one that counts for La Sportiva shoes.
Nevertheless, I did a quick search of Neptune's shoe selection and didn't see many 48s (I saw exactly one out of a check of maybe 10 shoes).

I think maybe you're holding REI up to an unrealistic standard. But since I don't wear anything like that size, I'm sort of an observer on this and I'll go back to lurking now.

In fact, why can't you order it online where the coupon can be applied and then have it shipped to the store free of charge?

I agree, REI is no longer a shop for climbers.

I live in the Seattle area and they moved their climbing section from the front of the flagship store to the back about 3-4 years ago.

Mike

I live in the Seattle area and they moved their climbing section from the front of the flagship store to the back about 3-4 years ago.

I think their main goal is to sell expensive outerwear.

...but they really are no longer just a climbing shop.

Does REI stock ptftws?

Most people I know size their sportiva climbing shoes 1-1.5 US size down from their street shoe size.

Did this really turn into a shoe sizing thread?

I wear a 10.5 street shoe and thought size 43 mythos were too big when new.

That sizing chart is bunk.

Most people I know size their sportiva climbing shoes 1-1.5 US size down from their street shoe size.

Sometimes my favourite bar stops serving a certain beer and I only wish there was a message board for me to complain about. If you want detailed specific shoe selection, go to a climbing store or buy it online somewhere, or try a different REI. In Austin, certain stores will have better selection on certain items than others. If you only have one REI in your town, move.

Did this really turn into a shoe sizing thread?

I wear a 10.5 street shoe and thought size 43 mythos were too big when new.

That sizing chart is bunk.

Don't confuse me with facts. I just bwant what I want.
This is kinda funny since I believe I remember DMT knocking rei bad one time. They pretty much lost my business when I ask them about the difference in the auto belay function between a guide and a reverso. They told me they couldn't tell me. If I didn't know how to use the device they wouldn't explain it to me. I almost told that guy what an asshole he was but bit my tongue, was polite, and got to talk to the climbing guy when he got off the little wall. He did not sound like he knew what he was talking about so I didn't buy either. I did not buy the gift card for my friends birthday that I came in for either. Screw em. I'll shop elsewhere.

First off, the sales people at REI told very specifically not to give any instruction in how to use lifesaving gear. Imagine for a bit the legal liability if improper information is given about a belay device, or information is misheard. The sales staff at REI is there to inform a customer why one device might be better for your needs than another, but specific instruction on how to use it is forbidden by management. He wasnt being an asshole to you. Besides, the BD Guide and the Petzl Reverso have no "auto belay" function, theyre both tube devices.

I think you may have been referring to the autoblocking belay functions of the Guide and the Reverso.