I bought an iphone a week ago and even put a scratch resistant screen on it. after on day climbing it was scratched all to hell.

Fortunately, with technology you can largely choose what content you consume. Sure, there will always be the chest-beating spray, whole tribes organize themselves around that stuff. That's not a problem with tech, it's a problem with people.

Nothing is taken away when someone blags their 'sick send'.

Hey gmggg,

Yes, you don't know me and I for hope I will never know you. Despite what you believe, I have not "been indoctrinated to a point where the basics have become extravagant". Disclaimer: I do believe there is something wrong with this.

As for my outdoors skills, I have been climbing in the United States and abroad for 35 years and will continue as long as my body will allow.

And as for you, I would venture out on a limb to believe that you just passed your belay test at the local gym recently.

Anyway, I still believe that the vast amount of electronic technology is no substitute for basic dependable out-doors skills, route finding... etc.

Heck, I suppose one day there will be no need even to leave our living-rooms, because there will be the availability of electronic virtual rock climbing. Who knows.

I am keeping my guidebooks.

Climb safe,

AB

I do not understand why people need guide book. 30 years ago, there were no guide book. may be few book on Everest or k2 but these days, there is a freaking guide book on how to climb a 4 feet high rock in Santa Monica beach

Guide-book on an I-pod to take on a climb? What, another piece of equipment to bring? What about committing the route description to memory or using notes.

Too much reliance on technology and not enough "old-school" out-door skills!

The whole point of climbing, hiking, backpacking, canoeing...etc (in my opinion) is to get away from the technology and the accountability of todays lifestyle and to use your own god-giving and personally developed outdoor skills and judgment to get into, to navigate through and to get out of the wilderness experience in one piece and live to do it again.

Heck, most people who find themselves outdoors these days cannot even use a compass and a map to navigate in the wilderness. "Where's my GPS, cell-phone, I-pad, lap-top..."where the hell am I. No worries, I'll just use my cell-phone to call in a rescue".

How lost would these people be, when the batteries die-out.

Just my opinion for whatever its worth. Climb safe!

AB

i dunno about anybody else, but if ppl start bringing laptops to the crag, not the crowd i would really wanna be around at the crag. I would cry, cause thats not what climbing is about and i would not wanna c the day that i would not want a guidebook, like for the Red River Gorge. (going through the pages, the routes, ppl u have climbed with, etc... PRICELESS!

Unfortunately, I had to consume this content. And it's tech's fault, not yours ???

guangzhou,

You are missing my point in this discussion.

I still contend there is entirely too much reliance on electronic equipment in climbing or the outdoors.

In my opinion:

A guidebook and route topo/description on an I-Pad that is dropped 4 or 5 pitches up will become an epic for any climbing party on a multi-pitch climb, when that party has not put the time and effort to research the route and decent properly, due to the reliance of electronic equipment.

GPS direction to and from new or remote cliff will seriously be in doubt when batteries die, because the climbing party has not put in the time and effort to find the cliff's location through maps, guidebooks, word of mouth...etc.

I am aware that some of the more popular climbing areas in the U.S. and abroad may not require much in the way of access finding, however, many areas in the south-west do. Try wandering around in outer-reaches of J-tree or Cochise Stronghold.

This is an example of what I mean of lack of "old school" outdoor skills.

I have recently witnessed, a climbing party at the Gunks this fall on Modern Times with walkie-talkies, being no more than one pitch from leader to second and in clear visual contact from one another.

With this example, what ever happened to knowing your partner, knowing the climbing signals verbal/non-verbal, knowing the climbing routine... (not to mention the unsafe habit operating an electronic device will belaying).

The big problem with guidebooks is the rampant theft of the material by those who post known routes to online databases pretending it is their own, original material.

Like the routes db on this board, it contains hundreds of such thefts.

Go ahead and use that plagiarized beta. Go ahead and document every last shred of climbbable rock everywhere, put it all in your GPS.

Have a nice convenient life.

And when you open one of those old relics (we called them BOOKS) harken back to a time when not all was known, when there were still white places on the maps.

Enjoy your stolen music on your iPod, stolen movie on your IPad, stolen beta on your iPhone. Its all a brave new world!

DMT

ps. I don't exempt myself from the above critique, btw. I do have done it too. We need to think about this shit. Its not too late to delete, you know. Repent, delete, whatever you want to call it.

As a person new to this whole community of climbing the thing I've found most bizarre is how little information is available regarding climbs. And how one site can have reasonable info regarding X climb and another site will literally have no listings sometimes for areas with hundreds of (often well-regarded) climbs.

better to have roads and parking spaces next to each climb. belaying and lowering through and into the sunroof is the new style.

in all seriousness, I'm sure the technology will develop to the point where guidebooks will be electronic. I'm not sure when it will be standard, but I bet it will. there may be obstacles now, but that's all they are. once the technology becomes standardized then things will take off. It's just a matter of time.

personally, I think it's a good thing to have electronic guidebooks. It will save paper for one. Also, for folks like me who care less about the adventure and more about other benefits of climbing, it will open up better opportunities for folks to see the routes they are getting on (i.e. - photos of the start, for instance). While I love getting away from the world, I like knowing where I am when I do get away (so getting lost kinda lowers the enjoyment factor). While there are good photos and topos in many current hardcopy guidebooks, photos on an electronic device is a much smaller obstacle than in print.

By limiting the amount of frivolity and convenience we accept into our activities we don't make our outings more pure or adventurous.

I find it bizarre that there's a community that quite obviously thrives on digital communication (even if it's just to spray crap) yet at the same time is so poor at communicating information of value...

Sure we do. Or I do, anyway...

DMT

paper is made from wood pulp. wood pulp has been a renewable crop forever.
e book made from plastic (oil based) . Dead batterys are not very "Green" either.
so you would rather have a book that has to use energy to produce and to use it. That is made from non renewable sources. than have a real book that takes energy to produce. but not to use.
hmmm enteresting. all to "save paper" that is produced from a crop that is planted and harvested

Well its not like they have Route InFo Data Entry Clerks adding this stuff. Its grass roots subject to whim and interests of the inputters.

That's understood, it simply surprised me that someone hasn't gone through this and other sites and done just that. Wikis, game faqs/walkthroughs, special interest websites etc are all good examples of how the militantly OCD among us collect reams of information that they love to share with everyone. Heck, you often seem to get a complete walkthrough of a new game within hours of it being released.

And as someone mentioned above, there's some minimum info that's useful, such as "will i get prosecuted if i climb here"... That's not necessarily more useful or valid than "will I die if i try to place protection in this crack after a long runout" is it?

The big problem with guidebooks is the rampant theft of the material by those who post known routes to online databases pretending it is their own, original material.

Like the routes db on this board, it contains hundreds of such thefts.