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socalclimber
Jun 12, 2010, 12:37 AM
Post #26 of 39
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That's reasonable!
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patto
Jun 12, 2010, 12:50 AM
Post #27 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: are making this up or is it based on some serious fact ? I mean, I got set of documentary drop test films that shows how a 100kg falling object zips out of belayers hand on FF2 with munter
I have seen testing that shows that munters have more friction than tube belay devices. You seem to think the opposite. Care to present your evidence?
(I saw belay testing somewhere on this forum.)
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majid_sabet
Jun 12, 2010, 2:07 AM
Post #28 of 39
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patto wrote: majid_sabet wrote: are making this up or is it based on some serious fact ? I mean, I got set of documentary drop test films that shows how a 100kg falling object zips out of belayers hand on FF2 with munter I have seen testing that shows that munters have more friction than tube belay devices. You seem to think the opposite. Care to present your evidence? (I saw belay testing somewhere on this forum.)
I could probably cut a section of film and email it to you directly but I can't put the entire thing on public domain due to copyright also, I am not debating that munter does not offer friction but when you compare munter system as a belaying method to even the early tube type system, the tube belay offers superior performance over munter at any given day. Again you can't use TR belaying as an example cause the top biner offers great deal of friction. The test I am taking about is dropping 100KG load from top while belayer is managing munter as he was belaying second
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socalclimber
Jun 12, 2010, 2:10 AM
Post #29 of 39
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Well this data is all fine and dandy, but you have not answered my question.
How are you gonna generate a FF2 fall bringing up a second using a munter?
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roy_hinkley_jr
Jun 12, 2010, 2:52 AM
Post #30 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: I am not debating that munter does not offer friction but when you compare munter system as a belaying method to even the early tube type system, the tube belay offers superior performance over munter at any given day. Again you can't use TR belaying as an example cause the top biner offers great deal of friction. The test I am taking about is dropping 100KG load from top while belayer is managing munter as he was belaying second
Argue all you want, you will still be wrong in a normal climbing situation. Contrived setups mean nothing. Give real data from repeatable tests that apply in the real world. Nothing else matters.
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Bolter
Jun 12, 2010, 5:41 AM
Post #31 of 39
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Registered: Mar 21, 2009
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Munter hitch not being a good belaying choice = ridiculous
Munter hitch not able to hold a fall = ridiculous
100kg climber and Factor 2 fall = ridiculous
Munter Hitch - Time Tested and Climber Approved
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j_amie_
Jun 12, 2010, 6:33 AM
Post #32 of 39
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Registered: Feb 9, 2010
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+1
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airforceclmr
Jun 12, 2010, 12:43 PM
Post #33 of 39
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Registered: Mar 26, 2009
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^ +2
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theguy
Jun 12, 2010, 5:06 PM
Post #34 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: psprings wrote: Munters have more stopping power than any non-autolocking belay device are making this up or is it based on some serious fact ?
As patto pointed out, this has been documented by Jim Titt of Bolt Products and presented in the rc.com lab:
"With the exception of the autolocking category this is still the non-plus-ultra of belay devices...The braking power is head and shoulders above any current conventional device and the performance with thinner rope is still excellent. About the only other device than the above which could stop a decent factor one fall."
majid_sabet wrote: when you compare munter system as a belaying method to even the early tube type system, the tube belay offers superior performance over munter at any given day.
How does a safety advocate such as yourself define performance if not by braking power?
I personally prefer using a plate-style device but think much of that is habit: in the German gym I went to, a significant proportion of people used the Munter hitch, and I didn't experience any issues with short-roping or excess slack when I was belayed in this fashion.
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j_ung
Jun 12, 2010, 6:39 PM
Post #35 of 39
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: majid_sabet wrote: I am not debating that munter does not offer friction but when you compare munter system as a belaying method to even the early tube type system, the tube belay offers superior performance over munter at any given day. Again you can't use TR belaying as an example cause the top biner offers great deal of friction. The test I am taking about is dropping 100KG load from top while belayer is managing munter as he was belaying second Argue all you want, you will still be wrong in a normal climbing situation. Contrived setups mean nothing. Give real data from repeatable tests that apply in the real world. Nothing else matters.
Don't waste your breath. This is what makes Majid "Majid." Once he gets a righteous thought in his head, his reading comprehension goes off-the-charts low.
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rtwilli4
Jun 13, 2010, 1:44 PM
Post #36 of 39
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Registered: Feb 14, 2008
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hafilax wrote: IME, fanboys of the Munter are either old or European.
I am 26, from N. Carolina, and I use it all the time.
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darkgift06
Jun 17, 2010, 7:40 PM
Post #37 of 39
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Registered: Mar 16, 2009
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I'm 26 also & have used it alot more than once in the last 10 years or so.
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psprings
Jun 17, 2010, 9:07 PM
Post #38 of 39
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Registered: Jul 13, 2005
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majid_sabet wrote: are making this up or is it based on some serious fact ? I mean, I got set of documentary drop test films that shows how a 100kg falling object zips out of belayers hand on FF2 with munter
An excerpt:
Mark Nelson wrote: Jun 1, 2010 2.5kN is about right; but, we've gotten about 600 ft lbs regardless of where the brake strand is going; even if the strand size is also reduced. So maybe you've some other criteria in your testing that's giving you a reduction. I thought we did try to emulate it and move the braking strand to different positions, but haven't seen a noticeable reduction. I wouldn't go far as an incorrect result; in static loading, the reduction just didn't show. The super-munter gave us about 1000 ft lbs. One thing that was very noticeable was how much the braking strength drops on a typical tube when reducing the strand size. In this case we dropped from 600 to about 350 ft lbs when going into the low to mid-9 mm in strand diameter.
I'd love to check out your video. Testing videos are pretty cool, although I have to say that probably any factor 2 fall of 100kgs is gonna blow things apart... even a grigri probably.
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majid_sabet
Jun 17, 2010, 11:17 PM
Post #39 of 39
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
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send me your email so i could cut the film and email it to you.
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