What DMM nuts are you referring to? I've heard great things about the offset nuts however, I've also heard that for a general rack are a little too specialized. What is your reasoning behind micro nuts, my understanding is static load only on stuff below the #4 BD.

I agree with the smaller gear, hence the Metolius MC 00-3. I'd prefer the Master Cam over the TCU due to the flexible stem on the Master Cam. Would it be wise to double up on something in the smaller Master Cam range verses grabbing the 0.5-1 BDs?

What DMM nuts are you referring to? I've heard great things about the offset nuts however, I've also heard that for a general rack are a little too specialized. What is your reasoning behind micro nuts, my understanding is static load only on stuff below the #4 BD.

I agree with the smaller gear, hence the Metolius MC 00-3. I'd prefer the Master Cam over the TCU due to the flexible stem on the Master Cam. Would it be wise to double up on something in the smaller Master Cam range verses grabbing the 0.5-1 BDs?

What DMM nuts are you referring to? I've heard great things about the offset nuts however, I've also heard that for a general rack are a little too specialized. What is your reasoning behind micro nuts, my understanding is static load only on stuff below the #4 BD.

DMM offsets are NOT a specialized piece. I often reach a belay finding that I have placed more offsets than regular nuts. If you have them, you'll find placements for them after you learn to look for them.

I disagree. I have a set but hardly place any of them. Their usefulness really depends on the type of rock you climb on.

I think it depends on if there will be a stop.

Are you going to be stopping in Rumbling Bald?

i'll be working

I disagree. I have a set but hardly place any of them. Their usefulness really depends on the type of rock you climb on.

Thats a fair analysis of it. I understand that I'm not going to drag my whole rack up a climb with me. Looking at what adding the Master Cams would do to the range of my rack I like that a little better than doubling up on the BDs.

So, I know this is another loaded question, and has as many answers as climbers but when it comes to a nut set what to choose? I know its personal preference driven. Just looking to understand what people like about certain stopper sets and why.

I think a "standard" rack needs both small 3 and 4 lobe units so definitely go for the mastercams. The argument for the TCU's, or C3's if you prefer the single stem....

I heard that same thing from people about offsets not being a good type of nut for the Gunks. I brought them anyway and was placing them constantly.

malcolm777b wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
malcolm777b wrote:
DMM offsets are NOT a specialized piece. I often reach a belay finding that I have placed more offsets than regular nuts. If you have them, you'll find placements for them after you learn to look for them.

I disagree. I have a set but hardly place any of them. Their usefulness really depends on the type of rock you climb on.

I heard that same thing from people about offsets not being a good type of nut for the Gunks. I brought them anyway and was placing them constantly.

C3s are not single stem. They are a cleverly disguised double stem.

As for TCUs (or whatever 3 lobe) fitting where 4 lobe units will, but not the other way around, I disagree. Mastercams have lobe-head widths that is slightly smaller than that of TCUs, and they will go into more placements IMO.

Ok thats fair. They are a doubleish stem unit.



Yeah, definitely have to disagree with you there.

Franks Red Hot TCU's, I put that shit on everything!

Disagree with what part? That the width of the head is smaller or that they go in more placements? Because it for sure can't be the first one. It definitely is smaller. (In all fairness though, before I post I actually held up my #1 Mastercam and #1 TCU and compared the widths. I thought, "Self, don't make yourself look like a dumbass off a theory". Turns out I was right.) I mean I guess it can be personal preference for which goes where more, but the smaller head does let me get it in shallower cracks (That's what she said?).

To critique jrathfon: you have more gear than is needed for a solo ascent of the Nose on El Cap. I'm starting to think you have stock in BD and are trying to earn some dividends.

roadside is definitely not a splitter.

what are you talking about?

if you knew they weren't splitters, why did you say they were?

but, yeah...ive definitely used 3 yellows on roadside.

Nuts: You have enough nuts. Curve nuts are crap, the 3 large brassy offsets are quite nice in our rock and I find myself going to them more than standard BD aluminums in that size. In most of our rock, nuts smaller than ~ a BD #4 typically don't hold much, there are occassional spots of harder rock, but general I look for large nut placements.

Small cams: 3 lobe micro cams are sh!te in our rock, I've seen/had ~ 6-7 blow out, and have heard of probably 7 or 8. The typical mode of failure is they crunch the rock, slide, jam like a nut onto the cam stops and shear the cam stops, sometimes without the last step. I prefer aliens: more bite, softer lobe material and more redundant (4 lobes). Since these aren't available I'd go with the mastercams equivalent to a blue, green, and yellow alien.

General suggestion: most of the really great lines in the red (subjective of course) are the splitter cracks. andromeda strain, crack attack, rebar, inhibitor, roadside, oberon, etc. thus, you need a lot of hand pieces. Our typical rack (granted split between a few people) that gets taken to the crag is a full double rack to #4, trips from 0.75-2 and a #5. There are some cracks that take more, some take less. A great rack for andromeda is trip 2's and 3's and one 0.5, 0.75. Crack attack is trip or quad 1's, trip 2's and a 3.

What I am getting at is that doubles in the mid sizes, specifically #1 and #2, are what you will place 20 times over compared to a blue alien or a #4 brassie.

Is it worth just getting the 00-3 Mastercam set? Just to cover the same range as the blue through yellow alien I'm already looking at sizes 0-3 on the Master cam.

Ok, will do. I've just found a 22% off deal on Master Cams. Don't really see sales on cams very often.

Well, at least I don't see sales often on the BDs. I've only every seen the Master Cams at 43$ for a #5. So 46$ across the board for any piece is pretty good.

lol, perhaps a better statement is I don't see sales ever on the stuff I'm looking for.

Standard RRG trad rack for most people is doubles of fingers through fists. If you're a BD owner this would be .3 to 4. Then add a set of nuts and micro-cams. This will get you up 70% of the routes you'll want to do.

For your rack, I'd suggest the following;

Add two BD .3's. Add one ea of BD .4-3. Add two #4's. Forget the Hexes. Forget the tri-cams. Add a single set of micro cams. I'm impartial to Master Cams vs. C3s at the Red, but I LOVE aliens, so I'd buy those if you can find them.

So here is a caveat: If you can find aliens, I'd say buy those through yellow (black, blue, green, yellow), and forget about the BD .3s. That will be tough though. It will be much easier to buy the BD .3 and then go with either C3s or TCUs or Master Cams that are smaller. Any of these will work in the Red, and everyone has their opinion which is the best.

The money you save by NOT buying hexes and tricams will be spent on a 3rd #1 2, & 3 BD Camalot. I call this the girlfriend rack. With 3 BDs in the hand range, you can go climbing with your girlfriend (who has no rack of her own), and get up 85% of the RRG trad lines.

To critique jrathfon: you have more gear than is needed for a solo ascent of the Nose on El Cap. I'm starting to think you have stock in BD and are trying to earn some dividends.

What is the opinion of the Trango Flex cam for the RRG? I may have run across a full set of them for cheap.