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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 8:21 AM
Post #26 of 103
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v4+
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crux_clipper
Feb 3, 2003, 9:20 AM
Post #27 of 103
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boulderingmadman, u just don't get it do u...ur absolutely lost. your logic on whether or not we should comment on the grade of a climb is stupid. I myself do not say that mandala is graded V11 or V13, but from the information i read on the net is how i found it out. You know what reading information is, don't u? Or you don't bother, as seen as you haven't climbed a climb, or sent a problem, theres no need to know anything about it.
Wake up call!!! what do you think the forums here are for? to pass on information about climbing related topics, so those who don't know already, can find satisfaction that they have a little bit more knowledge about climbing.
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neadamthal
Feb 3, 2003, 12:26 PM
Post #28 of 103
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LOX - do you have a stutter or are you in the state of bliss that your ignorance betrays!?
ie, why are you posting the same comment in various forms over and over and over????
is there method to your madness?
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 4:53 PM
Post #29 of 103
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It's just that there is a better scale for measuring difficulty, is all.
And on that scale, the Mandala is v4+.
v4+4lyfe.
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 5:38 PM
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only person so far that seems qualified to comment on the problem authoritatively is Meghan, and she has not done so.
The rest of the discussion boils down to 'I read that this ungraded-by-the-FA-ist problem is V-foo' and 'I am going to mock your ignorance by telling you, with just as much authority, that it is v4+'.
And who is to say that v4+ is wrong, unless they've been on the problem to determine that for themselves.
I read in the news (Weekly World, that is) that Bat Boy did a sick new upside-down teeth start on the Mandolin and graded it B3...
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climblouisiana
Feb 3, 2003, 5:48 PM
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It's been repeated.
B2
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v10gripper
Feb 3, 2003, 5:58 PM
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its funny this was supposed to let some folks know that something needs to be corrected, who really gives a $#!&. most of us will never be able o climb it so whats the point of us arguing about it?
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 6:02 PM
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Why didn't you send a PM to the person maintaining the 'Pro Athletes' section, if you were looking to submit a correction?
What it came off sounding like was a sycophantic sprayathon about His Holiness Chris Sharma. Perhaps if you had clarified your intent that wouldn't have happened. Bummer.
ps. if you want to try climbing it, Bishop really isn't that far from Yucca Valley.
[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2003-02-03 10:13 ]
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boulderingmadman
Feb 3, 2003, 6:21 PM
Post #34 of 103
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i never accused you of anything, crux_clipper. in fact, i dont know who you are, but you are the most offended by my tirade.
look, if you havent climbed it, you are passing along rumo0ur and conjecture from one mouth to the next. if you really wanna know how hard the damn thing is, come to bishop and climb the %@#$ing thing...
checkitout--does this me make more of an authority on it than you? according to you, it would, cause where youve only read about it, ive actually attempted(to get off the ground) it. so i guess im better than you...
the point is, the %@#$ing problem is hard. harder than i can climb, harder than you can climb, and harder than most of us will ver be able to climb. so to sit on an internet forum and pass off gossip as if it were actual information is retarded.
oh, yes, nice try on the flame. but youll have to do better than that, crux_clipper...
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 6:32 PM
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That really is a beautiful problem. I had never seen it from that angle before.
Too bad the only way I'm liable to get up it is on bathooks. Oh well, I'll stick to crack climbing.
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vertical_reality
Feb 3, 2003, 6:46 PM
Post #36 of 103
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Here are a few quotes taken from 8a.nu -
"Apparently, Anthony Lamiche has grabbed the first flash-ascent of Sharma's Mandala, 8A+, at Bishop. Mandala was put up more than two years ago and some were speculating 8B+ since Sharma didn't rate the boulder. Mandala is in fact the most frequented boulder news at 8a.nu and it has been continously down-graded and also 8A, has been mentioned." - 8a.nu Nov 27, 2002
"Mick Ryan of Rockfax tells us Anthony Lamiche has done the sit start to the Mandala, giving it 8B." - 8a.nu Dec 2, 2002
So from these two sources, who have both climber the problem, the direct start is 8a+ (V12) and the sit start is 8b (V13).
Other then the the vids and pics I've seen I haven't been within a few hundred miles of Mandala... but I know how to quote people who have been.
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 6:53 PM
Post #37 of 103
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Wonderful. But how does pointing at someone else's contention buttress your own?
Instead of saying 'I have climbed [a] and so has Anthony Lamiche, and we both agree it is 5.13+' you are simply handing around rehashed spray. For a problem that was never graded to begin with (and probably to avoid EXACTLY THIS SORT OF SPRAYATHON), it sure does get a lot of attention focused on its grade.
Anyone here can read 8a.nu. Not many people here can climb 8A. The latter are the ones that people are interested in hearing from, as regards the grade of a hard problem.
Why people cannot understand this is beyond me. You ask me about Crack of Dawn, I'll tell you all about it, because I've climbed the damn thing. I ignored this thread until I couldn't take it anymore -- Lox is not known for subtlety, but somehow, even with his sledgehammer delivery, people Just Weren't Getting It. Unbelievable.
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vertical_reality
Feb 3, 2003, 7:09 PM
Post #38 of 103
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So by your thinking, if the FAer didn't put a grade on a climb then it can never be graded becuase its all spray if not?
Oh ya, can you please point out where I said what I thought the grade was (jeez, I even went so far as to say that I've never been near it). I quoted two climber who said what THEY thought the grade was. Whats the difference between this and looking it up in a guidebook?
Can't you children find anything more entertaining to fight about? I don't think the original poster was trying to give his opinion on the grade but rather giving the consensus grade of those who have climbed it.
[ This Message was edited by: vertical_reality on 2003-02-03 11:23 ]
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 7:31 PM
Post #39 of 103
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v4+
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 7:39 PM
Post #40 of 103
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Quote:
Can't you children find anything more entertaining to fight about?
The irony is so thick you could choke on it.
The original poster is a she, and she has already explained her reasons. I question both your reading comprehension, and your motivations. Post count anyone?
Point 2:
Quote:
Oh ya, can you please point out where I said what I thought the grade was[?]
Why yes, I can.
Quote:
the direct start is 8a+ (V12) and the sit start is 8b (V13).
Now you're going to say that you wrote 'from these two sources...' and that makes it okay. But it doesn't. The whole point of this discussion is that anyone can read a mag, open a guidebook, surf to a website. Those are not primary sources, and they don't add much. I don't care *what* the climb is graded. At *all*. I just got tired of seeing it on the front page, and people seemed pretty thick.
Quote:
So by your thinking, if the FAer didn't put a grade on a climb then it can never be graded becuase its all spray if not?
By my thinking, your opinion of the grade on a problem you've never climbed, never been near, and don't really have a basis to judge, is worthless. Not just yours, but anyone in that situation. My opinion of the grade on the Mandala is of no consequence either.
OT: Nice link Lox. I love it. I still think the B scale is the only scale, though.
[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2003-02-03 11:50 ]
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vertical_reality
Feb 3, 2003, 7:46 PM
Post #41 of 103
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LOL My post count? Now thats funny... since you love Lox's posts so much.
I'm still waiting for you to reply to my questions.
[Edit] Sorry, Tim answered my questions after I posted this.
[ This Message was edited by: vertical_reality on 2003-02-03 11:55 ]
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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 7:52 PM
Post #42 of 103
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See above.
My post count is a direct reflection of the fact that I routinely have to point out the obvious (normally as regards codebases, but occasionally a particularly stupid flamewar like this will beg for it).
I take no position on the merit of Lox's posts, but I will say that they're more entertaining than yours.
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 7:57 PM
Post #43 of 103
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v4+ !!!11
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vertical_reality
Feb 3, 2003, 7:59 PM
Post #44 of 103
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Flame war results:
vertical reality - 0
tim - 1
lox - 567
I see your point Tim, we just have different views.
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boulderingmadman
Feb 3, 2003, 8:08 PM
Post #45 of 103
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ok...let me break it down for all of you who still dont get it...
IF lamiche, sharma, graham, roth, etal, were here on the forum discussing what THEY thought the grade of the Mandala was, this conversation would NOT be happening.
what IS happening, is a bunch of people who have done NOTHING more than reading about a problem are posting an unfounded opinion on what THEY think the problem is.
as tim pointed out, any of us can read about the problem. this doesnt mean we know what the problem is graded.
how can you post a personal opinion about somehting in which you have no personal experience?
all you are doing is re-phrasing somone else's opinion. though this fits in with the "follow-the leader" opinions expressed so commonly on this forum, it doesnt mean you are right, accurate, or even influential in the discussion.
ask me about shaft, or the big chicken, or strength in numbers, or any of the numerous problems i have been on, and finished, and i can give you my opinion of what i think its difficulty is. ask me about a problem ive never climbed, and i can ONLY tell you what someone else thinks its difficulty is.
yea, and were the ones who are thick...you cannot have an opinion on something you know nothing about!! its easy to have someone else opinion...
v4+
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madriver
Feb 3, 2003, 8:51 PM
Post #46 of 103
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Where is GAWD when you need him....? Lox ...step it up..the flame is dying!!
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mikefreeman
Feb 3, 2003, 9:01 PM
Post #47 of 103
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i'm with LOX
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monkeyarm
Feb 3, 2003, 9:46 PM
Post #48 of 103
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boulderingmadman your wrong.
One can hold an opinion based on information provided without having actually had the original experiance.
Go read a medical or psychological journal sometime they are refered to as lit reviews
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lox
Feb 3, 2003, 10:20 PM
Post #49 of 103
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Jeeze, kids, check it out.
First of all, it's a matter of authority. It is perfectly fine to discuss or even argue grades, based on what other people have said.
Where the line gets crossed that upsets some people is the AUTHORITY with which some peeps feel comfortable making claims.
If you haven't climbed the certain route, all you can do is qualify your statement and give a range... like this: "Based on what I have heard from those who have done it, is that the Mandala is v11/12 depending on the sequence and/or factoring in the broken hold. The sitstart has been done and it appears to be hard enough to warrant another v grade."
This will never be enough for some people, but since it adequately defines what you think about the grade and why, then it MUST BE ACCEPTED as your OPINION.
It is when this opinion is stated as fact (EVEN BY THOSE WHO HAVE CLIMBED IT) that people get upset.
Grades are subjective and the "you haven't clibed it" camp is right when they say that nothing good can come of arguing 11 v. 12 when no one arguing could even tell the difference...
To one side of the debate: be clear and concise and if someone doens't like your opinion, tell them to kindly go eff themself. You will use thier input in your opinion AFTER they climb the route.
To the other side: jumping down people's throat for expressing their opinion is uncool Jumping down people's throat for expressing their opinion as fact ROCKS.
just cut peeps some slack and realize that in their head they WILL assign a grade to the problem based on what they have heard... its natural and we all do it.
AAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!@@!@!!@!!@#!@$#!@$124
GRADES EFFIN BLOW !!!111
v4+ !
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shank
Feb 3, 2003, 11:03 PM
Post #50 of 103
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I thought it was common knowledge that grades were all opinion anyway. Even comeing from the FAist or anyone else that has climbed it. Therefor anyone that says this climb it rated whatever is stating someone opinion,whether it be their's or someone else, or is completely lying about it. either which way,unless you just climb so you can say I climb V69 to brag, who care what it is rated now, or ever even if I do climb it I still don't care and neither should you.
Just my 2 Lincolns
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mandala is rated v11/12
[
