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tim
Feb 3, 2003, 11:07 PM
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This whole exchange illustrates perfectly why the B scale was better. Either a problem is doable, standards-pushing, or unrepeated. Mathematically rigorous, clearly delineated, and free of spray.
Naturally, it had to be replaced with something that was sponsor-friendly...
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 12:12 AM
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v4+
IPS4LYFE.
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lilred
Feb 4, 2003, 1:16 AM
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hehehe...this thread is fuuuuuny!
~giggle~
i'm with Lox. Who the %@#$ cares about ratings...
Ratings shratings!
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madriver
Feb 4, 2003, 3:36 AM
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Thank YOU LOX...!!! It was getting boring in there...!!11!! Whatever the 1 means!!
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rockfax
Feb 4, 2003, 3:38 AM
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Well...lots of people care about ratings.
Yes they do influence who gets sponsored.
But most importantly they can give you a sense of achievement.
If you climb something that is recognised by your peers as say V7 and it is your first V7 you are quite right to be proud about your achievement.
Not only do you hopefully enjoy the physical and mental experience of climbing something at your limit...but you have a number attached to that experience which tells you that you have achieved a certain level in climbing.
This is the same for Chris Sharma, Fred Nicole, all of us.
But first and foremost it is the experience that counts not the number pegged on to it.
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 4:14 AM
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Unless that number is...
v4+ !!!!!!!11
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rockfax
Feb 4, 2003, 4:32 AM
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Just like my jokes...your's are old and ugly....but you still make me laugh and thanks for that Mr. Texas Is Best.
Anyways. As there is no device to measure a climbs difficulty or impartial judges to sat that a challenge has been fairly completed....unlike most other sports, climbing has an appeal like no other sport.
I think that is one of climbings main attractions...no stop watch, no officials, no written rule book. It does leave it open to a little abuse and dishonesty at the higher levels and it is wise to be aware of that. But that doesn't affect the experience of the majority....even V4+ chuffers...eh Loxy.
So let the never ending rating discusion, that began many years ago, continue.
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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crux_clipper
Feb 4, 2003, 5:53 AM
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Ok, this is it for me...i'm never posting in this topic again, but let me clear a few things up....
Firstly, i never made it my intention to add my opinion on the grade of the problem, let alone put forward the idea that i have even climed it. I was simply replying to an inquiry to what its graded now..."Hey, did everyone know that.....?" "yes, i have read it on the net that its V??, or just bloody hard"
Secondly boulderingmadman, how can you grade it V4+? This obviously means that you've sent it, and found it incredibly easy compared to the likes of sharma and graham. yet you did just say before that it was out of the reahc of the likes of you and me....I've bouldered up to V6, so maybe i should come over and give it a shot if you consider it V4+
Thirdly...i will do it one day. Maybe no time soon, but one day i will be bouldering those grades, and when i do, i'll send ya a photo
Peace out!
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 4:17 PM
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Crux... you don't climb v4+ on the ice pond scale... lol.
You barely climb v2+ !
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crackwhore
Feb 4, 2003, 4:23 PM
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B2+
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crackwhore
Feb 4, 2003, 4:34 PM
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" V4+ "
has the A. Hole actually climbed the Mandala?
methinks no...
cuz Lox only likes to go sideways.
he's starting a new website called traversing.com.
it features other Lone Star guzzlin', sideways climbin' rednecks like him doin upside down laps on manufactured chosspiles in mosquito infested riverbeds.
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 4:43 PM
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Dude.
The ice pond scale is designed to alleviate all this BS that you are trying to mire me in by asking "has the Lox climbed the Mandala"...
The point of the ice pond scale is that things are either very hard, hard, moderate, easy or incredibly easy.
If you look at the problem versus the scale, it is easy to see that the problem is v4+.
Kinda like on the b scale... if it's b1, that's the rating... even though only 1 person has climbed the route.
And I don't understand what the animosity is all about... v2+ is GOOD, BRAH. Keep working and maybe you can climb on some v4s with me someday...
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bighigaz
Feb 4, 2003, 5:06 PM
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Who CARES!!!! Chris Sharma can say whatever he wants, but most or all of us don't have the right to do anything but gauk at the videos and wish we had the kind of superhuman abilities he has... I think I'll go put up a new route this week... maybe a a hideous 5.7 or something... gee, I hope that rating holds up 'cause I really don't care about anything else... and I'll be happy as long as everyone who watches my video agrees with me. SHEESH!
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boulderingmadman
Feb 4, 2003, 5:35 PM
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ice pond scale, crux_clipper. lox exposed me to it, and i love it. NOTHING is harder than v4+...its as hard as it gets.
listen, im not trying to piss anyone off, or get your panties all bunched up.
i dont care about discussing opinions or whatever. just dont post it as a fact. its not a fact, it never will be a fact (mick if you grade it in the guidebook, ill hunt you donw and kill you...unless its v4+ )...
lemurboy would have been better off saying "i heard the sit start added a whole grade to. WOW!~!! thats %@#$ing hard!!!" instead of [whiny lil brat voice]"sharmas beta was way harder. graham found an easier way up, so sharmas beta was ahrder. now the ss went and its a v13....blablabla"[/whiny lil brat voice]
its all in the attitude expressed, and you guys havent even SEEN the problem in real life.
crux_clipper, i assumed you were one of the "we" who have sent it that you talked about...there that authority on the problem again.
if all you lil girls and boys wanna pretend you know what youre talking about...have fun. someday maybe youll come to bishop (for real, not in a movie...) and actually LOOK at the problem. than youll appreciate for what it IS, not what someone else said its difficulty rating was...
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 5:48 PM
Post #65 of 103
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v4+
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rockfax
Feb 4, 2003, 6:03 PM
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Texas Boy wrote:
"The point of the ice pond scale is that things are either very hard, hard, moderate, easy or incredibly easy. "
So you are rating things.
Your rating scale verbal rating system is exactly the same as the numerical one...just less precise and more fuzzy. Which is fine.
It originated in the UK 40 years ago, then it evolved into a numerical one.
ice pond scale
incredibly easy = VB to V0
easy = V0+ to V2
moderate = V3 to V5
hard = V6 to V9
very hard = V10 and harder
There's no escaping it Texas Boy. You ARE a rating whore despite all your posturing and posing.
best regards,
Mick
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 7:57 PM
Post #67 of 103
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I never said I was anti-rating...
I said that the v-scale is more aptly suited to arguing and bull$#!& sessions.
So, yeah... if you think that my climbing a problem and then running back down and having someone ask me "How hard was that ?!?!?" and my reply "Moderately hard" MAKES me a "ratings whore" then you are entitled to your opinion.
It would be about as well thought out as most of what you spew.
Personally... I think that term applies better to people who cannot exist outside the v-scale on any level and who cannot acknowledge there MIGHT be a better way to do things.
These are the people you write guidebooks for.
And you are so mired in the game that you can't even pull your head out long enough to NOT RATE THE IP SCALE WITHOUT V-RATINGS.
I find your trite attempt to insult me lame.
I find your misrepresentation of my worldview condescending.
And I find the fact that you don't know any better by now to be indicative of the lack of intelligence I always suspected you had.
No wonder your guidebooks suck so much and people are so mininformed.
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rockfax
Feb 4, 2003, 9:02 PM
Post #68 of 103
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Sharma likes to climb "hard problems" which get a high number attached (V4+ prolly)....because it focuses his mind, whereas easier climbing doesn't.
This he has said.
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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lox
Feb 4, 2003, 9:12 PM
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See... I am on the same scale as sharm...
I just choose to use the IPS to do so because it challenges people to realize these numbers are arbitrary and really the only absolute scale that exists is kinda vague and internalized differently in each individual.
v4+
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mreardon
Feb 4, 2003, 10:02 PM
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I have never laughed so hard! My thanks to Mick, Lox, Bmadman and the rest for making my day! I'm a ratings whore (admitting is the first step to recovery) when it comes to roped routes, but bouldering always went in the past with two ratings; "I did it", "I did not do it". But lately we've been going with "easy" (up to V3), "moderate" (V4-V7), "hard" (V8-V11), and "What the F#%k?" (V12+). I think "mandala" fits the "what the?" rating. I was at the 'milks last weekend and after onsighting a couple moderates and taking a two windmill fall from the jugs on "high plains drifter" ("no one falls from there" stated the spotters....), we decided to check out "mandala." Matching on the upper holds of "soul slinger" ("Hard" or V9/V10 for those who care) was easier than those opening moves.
I can't rate worth a damn, but I have to disagree with Lox, I think it's V5+
[ This Message was edited by: mreardon on 2003-02-04 14:09 ]
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boulderingmadman
Feb 4, 2003, 10:08 PM
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there is no v5+:
v0-v2=v0
v3-v4=v2
v5-v7=v2+
v8-v?=v4+
its easier this way
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tim
Feb 4, 2003, 10:08 PM
Post #72 of 103
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it would be easier still if you called it ip4+ but then a lot of the fun would go away
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boulderingmadman
Feb 4, 2003, 10:20 PM
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its just recognizing the vagueness of any grading system, and incorporating that vaguness into the system itself.
every problem is different for every climber. at least with the IPS, you can be pretty assured of where you climb...
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lilred
Feb 4, 2003, 10:32 PM
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There is no spoon...
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rockfax
Feb 5, 2003, 3:29 AM
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Try again Texas Boy. I bouldered for 15 years without any bouldering rating scale.
Trust the Yanks to implement one. That %@#$in Sherman....I should have poisoned him after that session at Almscliff, Yorkshire, when he led on my couch in 1986.
Nice post Loxy....you're learning....but still have a long long way to go.....
Mick
www.rockfax.com
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mandala is rated v11/12
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