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pbjosh
Apr 14, 2003, 7:03 AM
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I in general think that Pete's posts are too wordy, too bold (as in fonts) and frequently the tradeoff of time put into sifting through them vs. useful information is (for me) not worthwhile. I've read a fair number and picked up a couple of ideas here or there but generally I think that if you're learning to aid climb you should keep it simple. If you're experienced and trying to get better that's great, but I'm getting sick of reading that "Pete is the wall doctor and if you don't do it his way, you're doing it the wrong way." Generally I choose to just skip the posts...
For what it's worth I can fully see where Bryan and others get irritated. The are a lot of stellar wall climbers out there and I've never heard a one of them spray, and now everyone on this site thinks Pete's this superhuman hero.
At the same time I think it's great that Pete puts so much effort into his posts and helping people but perhaps he could tone down the spray and keep things a little bit more brief!
josh
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atg200
Apr 14, 2003, 10:15 AM
Post #27 of 66
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I have learned a fair amount from Pete, though these days I can't sit all the way through any of his posts any more. I've discarded more than i've used, but I have to say I am a better climber because of some of his posts.
On the other hand, as the moderator of this forum and a user I can't stand his persona. I don't appreciate his behind the scenes pm pseudo-moderation, which i believe keeps this forum more as a lecture from pete than a discussion. I don't like that Pete has set himself up as a sort of god of aid climbing and even worse has a chorus of sycophants chiming in on every post. I think this disgusts a lot of good wall climbers and keeps away far more content than it contributes. Put yourself in the shoes of a world class wall climber - would you like to add to a thread called "Ask Dr Piton .... " with a bunch of pandering in it? I don't even like to post in those threads, and i'm a gumby.
Personally, I really wish Pete would chill, but he won't. I've debated to myself about changing the titles on the Dr Piton posts, but even though I hate those titles I won't. I'm sick of all of this though, and between all the pm's i get from pete asking for this and that to be changed and pm's from users complaining about pete, i wish i had never agreed to be the aid forum moderator.
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punk
Apr 14, 2003, 1:08 PM
Post #28 of 66
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The PTPP Vs Copperhead debate
PTPP – at the beginning great info and for me when I was accustomed to a particular way gave me a new way of looking at things some I tried and they had being working for me and some plain don’t work for me but the knowledge was laid out and u could pick and choose
Lately the info is wrap up with so much fluff that it is hard to just get to the point and honestly I just don’t find it informative as it used to be (most likely all chewed up and spited again)
Copperhead – I know that there is awesome knowledge there BUT it is like squeezing water out of a rock…spill the beans copperhead and enlighten us I know that it is dreadful to sit down and formulate an informative post (form my own experience I just wish I could be done with the keyboard before I even started typing) but hey… look at PTPP u can get very good and efficient in typing, that u can sometime over do it… ;)
But then again, I am just a wanker and I do not know what the hell I am talking about all I posted in this site was from my limited experience of trial and error
Ok I will stop now b/c I am not making sense anymore
PS
I am just hoping that all this post will result in opening a new door to a world of knowledge to all RC.comers without the fluff and the egoism
:)
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bighigaz
Apr 14, 2003, 1:56 PM
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:lol: ... and Pete has of course left this thread completely alone. (so far)... I'm sure he is just reveling in it! This is the kind of attention and "controversy" he wants! I have to say is that RC.com wouldn't be the same without him. Long live PTPP!!!! :shock:
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jds100
Apr 14, 2003, 2:02 PM
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First: I'm not an aid climber, and don't aspire to be one. I rarely -no, never- come into the Aid Climbing Forum. One reason is the very kind of "debate" that this thread represents.
I think it's worth considering, what a few people have alluded to, that the Pete persona and his sycophants may be more or less driving away other very qualified big-wall climbers. Could the Forum be of higher quality with more and better input from other wall climbers, were it not for having to wade through so much self-promotional sewage in so many of the threads?
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neadamthal
Apr 14, 2003, 2:16 PM
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what an EPIC!
i agree that ptpp has been prolific and prodigious in his posts, but i also think that he needs to chill the f out. there's no need to try and start a war on this site, especially over such personal subjects. ptpp needs to open the drain so he's not so full of himself.
why does he feel the need to tell everyone on this site that he thinks he's the best bigwall climber out there. who the f cares who the 'best' is. its far too subjective to even discuss. we all appreciate his advice, but its not worth the rants that he provides too. there is much to be said for brevity, especially in the world we live in today.
make your point and shut up. and on that point...
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merlin
Apr 14, 2003, 2:36 PM
Post #32 of 66
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IN MY OPINION (excuse to avoid annoyance) everyone is welcome to their own faults... what does abit of Ego really matter in the scheme of things? PTPP is welcome to post, and i am sure many people are gratefull for the advice that he provides, and as far as i can see if u dont like the attitude he represents, then dont read the posts.
BUT.
if he has been hassling people, moderators etc.etc. then i believe that he also has to recognise that other peope can have their faults aswell, defferent as they may be from his. (although the definition of Ego as a fault is somewhat ambitious)
anyways, once again this is only my opinion
P.S) i am in no way implying that Mods arent people with the seperated terms... :p
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rockprodigy
Apr 14, 2003, 3:11 PM
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OK, I just thought this was so funny I had to post something about it:
In reply to: I’ve certainly learned most of what I know about aid (ok failed my first solo attempt at a easy aid route – Prodigal Sun – because I was too darn slow) from Pete
PTPP has this guy so brainwashed that he doesn't realize that Pete's system is too darn slow!
I'm not a bad-ass A4++ aid climber, but I can say that I've climbed El-Cap in under a week, and what I get out of Pete's writing is how to do any wall-related task with the absolute bare minimum required effort, regardless of how long it takes. Therefore, if you're going to use his "better way", make sure you've blocked out at least a day per pitch.
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glockaroo
Apr 14, 2003, 3:49 PM
Post #34 of 66
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So Pete is an egomaniac with a colorful online persona and a mischievous (sp?) PM agenda. Question is... who cares?
So Bryan is a supposedly humble climber god with a penchant for revealing his need to establish a pecking order online. Question is... who cares?
Who forced you people to read Pete's posts? Nobody.
I've never met Pete except through this site. I've had fun and picked up a few good wall tricks. It never hurts to have a variety of tools in the toolbox.
But this idea that Pete is the only advanced wallclimber with an overextended ego is BS. The others are just better at hiding it.
People who are truly self-realized don't have a need to start threads like this. They just take a casual note of the person who irritates them, think "whatever", and go on with their self-actualized lives.
If it bothers you that so-and-so says they're the best wallclimber in the world, what does that say about you? It says that you're actually concerned with who the best wallclimber is. It says that you have a need to preserve the climbing world's pecking order. Where's all that zen-god humility now?
The energy you expend to prove "him" wrong just gets wasted.
To semi-quote a guy from rec.climbing: "when all you've got in the world is climbing, it really shows." How true.
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copperhead
Apr 14, 2003, 4:38 PM
Post #35 of 66
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Wow, I stirred things up quite a bit! Don’t know if this is good or bad, but let’s continue.
Bitter alcoholic? Dude.
Two beers last night; 3 beers the night before; and nothing else. I laughed the entire time I was writing the ‘challenge’ though my sense of humor might be a little warped (or hidden behind the slander).
Please don’t put me on a pedestal (as Pete has done for himself). That's why I started this thread in the first place. I’m getting sick of reading my name 10 times in a post. There are many climbers out there who can climb circles around me any day of the week. Can’t we just leave it at that?
Rockprodigy wrote:
In reply to: "I’ve certainly learned most of what I know about aid (ok failed my first solo attempt at a easy aid route – Prodigal Sun – because I was too darn slow) from Pete" -(Timpanogos) (bold type added for emphasis) PTPP has this guy so brainwashed that he doesn't realize that Pete's system is too darn slow!
No offense to Chad whatsoever (we are CR 500 brothers and horsepower keeps us honest) but what Rockprodigy said is precisely my point. How about traffic jams on routes like the Zodiac and the thought of trying to pass someone like Pete, let alone a party of three living life “the better way.” I don’t have time to continue this right now but I will be happy to outline why I disagree with some of Pete’s climbing systems. I may be slow at presenting my ideas, but that is a matter of laziness and my two-finger typing, not me trying to be an asshole. How about I start with that pointed hook thread that I never answered? I sure could use a digital camera though…
Glockaroo, you are completely missing the point. No pecking order – just a level playing field.
In reply to: "when all you've got in the world is climbing, it really shows." How true.
Hardly. I spend my winters in school studying geology and my spare time on my dirt bike. I race (desert) when I get a chance (but I’m no super-fast guy). This forum is a place to have fun, provide info, slander a little, and try to stay in touch with ONE of the sports that I love. Climbing is not everything to me but maybe it is to Pete.
It’s a beautiful (partly cloudy) day and the dirt is moist! Yahoo, time to go out and have some fun. I’ll check back later.
Until then don’t stress. We’re all trying to have fun and the meaning of life is FUN!
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drkodos
Apr 14, 2003, 4:48 PM
Post #36 of 66
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In reply to: People who are truly self-realized don't have a need to start threads like this.
People who are "self realized" don't even go climbing.
"Self realized" people, like yourself, obviously, have far better and rewarding things to do, such as making the planet a better place for all of us to live.... :wink:
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veilneb
Apr 14, 2003, 5:08 PM
Post #37 of 66
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The solution is simple. If you have problems with PTPP's posts, don't read them. If you have personal issues with PTPP, don't be his friend. Is that so difficult?
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krillen
Apr 14, 2003, 5:19 PM
Post #38 of 66
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In reply to: So Pete is an egomaniac with a colorful online persona and a mischievous (sp?) PM agenda. Question is... who cares? If it bothers you that so-and-so says they're the best wallclimber in the world, what does that say about you? It says that you're actually concerned with who the best wallclimber is. It says that you have a need to preserve the climbing world's pecking order. Where's all that zen-god humility now?
I find it funny that you guys will sit here defend pete after his copious"self promotion" but if any of you were sitting around the camp fire at a crag and heard some guy spouting off half the stuff Peter has said on this site, you'd be be calling him an arrogant blowhard, if not worse.
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glockaroo
Apr 14, 2003, 5:43 PM
Post #39 of 66
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Brad: why do you quote me with your comment? Didn't I mention PTPP's egomaniacism? (wow, is that a real word...)
Bryan: why do you need a playing field unless you're competing?
Man its easy to get sucked into these threads. Whatever.
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krillen
Apr 14, 2003, 5:48 PM
Post #40 of 66
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Sorry, I was tryingot refernce Peter's quotes overall, and yours were the easiest to grab.
The idea was that anytime I hear someone mouthing off on how good they are, ususally the are full of it and people tell him so. Here for some reason they worship him.
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alpinelynx
Apr 14, 2003, 6:44 PM
Post #41 of 66
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you people sound like the old hens at my mothers hair salon... or Drag Queens.
Pete's information is presented in such a way as to completely confuse the f''k out of me. I'm a gumby new aid climber with little experience and need things presented simply. Am I stupid? hardly. I really could care less about what an a''hole he is. However I admit that I would rather not have to weed through a load of self agrandisment to understand how to haul.
To say that Bryan doesn't have and ego or doesn't spray is a sort of confused view.. But this forum, correct me if I'm wrong, is about aid CLIMBING not aid PERSONALITIES. I will say however that the most valuable guidance regarding aid climbing I've heard yet is "Efficiency is key." I'll add that what's efficient for me may not be efficient for you or bob or steve or mary or anyone else.
To me, the challenge in aid climbing has nothing to do with anyone else but myself. I have a goal, I want to complete such and such climb in such and such style. My challenge is then how to acheive those goals with the resources that I have available to me (This sometimes includes weeding my way through Pete's egocentric rhetoric and asking questions of certain people who I can't stand personally. Just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I can't find something useful in what they say.) Sometimes my goals are NOT to complete the task simply, but to try a system just because it sounds like FUN and to add more information to my limited store so I can better decide what is the most efficient method for me.
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joebuzz
Apr 14, 2003, 7:35 PM
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Hi all... I just had to put in my two cents. First of all, I couldn't care less who said what when. If folks don't like PTPP's posts or persona, don't read 'em.
Now, I was one of the people that helped Pete last fall in Yosemite. We hung out for few days and I generally had a good time. I don't think "The Better Way" is nessesarily the Only Way, but like someone said a bit ago,"Why not have a few more tools in your toolbox".
As far as ego's are concerned, sure Pete is a little boisterous, but so what. I've worked in and around the outdoor/climbing for quite a few years and have met many of the professional athletes/climbers that we read about in the mags. Just because they don't post & rant here, doesn't mean they are little angels either.
Mostly, before I get off track, I'm not here to say that Pete is "The Greatest Wall Climber Ever", but as someone who has actually met him and spent a little time with him, I would gladly do it again.
Peace all... Buzz
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epic_ed
Apr 14, 2003, 8:39 PM
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Jesus. I go out climbing for a weekend and look what I come back to! ;-)
I think Chad (Timpanogos) summed up my thoughts -- I'm just looking for information. That is something Pete and Bryan have supplied in spades. I could do without some of Pete's self promotion, but he has toned it down since the flame fest in 11/01 the Brian linked on the opening of this post.
As for the challenge, I think it's legitimate. If you are going to represent yourself as a "wall doctor" or as a someone who is looking to get a "paying gig" for dispensing his technique and wisdom, then you open yourself up to scrutiny and criticism. It's one thing if you are sharing the same information as "Joe Humble" climber and are passing it along as experienced gained, but clearly Pete has higher aspirations. I don't necessairly fault him for that. But it is what it is. Heck, looks like it HAS helped him land a paying gig (Rock & Ice?).
So it will be interesting to hear Pete's thoughts about the challenge. More interesting will be how he reacts to the challenge ( has he learned from the defensive barage he launched in 11/01?). Maybe I'm just not seeing the sinister side of Bryan's comments, but what's so out of line with his proposal? Yeah, yeah...I know. He framed it in a rather adversarial manner. But if I'm willing to give Pete a break with all of his self-promoting blather and still consider him a friend, I can certainly accept Bryan's cynicism wrapped around some legitimate questions about how one of this forums most highly regarded aid climbers will handle some challenging ethical issues.
Bottom line for me, I have absolutely no interest in choosing side. I just want to know how to effen climb.
Ed
FWIW -- I think Pete is on the road right now (coming back from Florida, I think?).
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jumaringjeff
Apr 14, 2003, 9:02 PM
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I love how PTPP hasn't said a THING about this yet and there's already 3 pages of FUNNY SCHIT.
Thanks for brightening up my day everyone.
:o
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cloudbreak
Apr 14, 2003, 9:52 PM
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...
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verticallaw
Apr 14, 2003, 10:04 PM
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o.k. I'm gonna put my two bits in. I don't know Copperhead or Pete. While I have read posts from both. This seems to be a waste of time. I agree that their are many different pro's and con's for the knowledge each has and one may be a better climber.........who cares???
I log on to this forum because I am learning and do not have the comfort or ability to have a instructor. Thankfully I have been climbing for some time so I know that my own abilites to test theroies before my life deppends on them is pretty good.
Pete's forums are insightfull and easy to find. I think his "ego" is also a way of lightening up some of the information would you rather read ............ clip biner "a" to haul point "g" invert etc etc etc......... or wow man i tried this while soloing "insert route here" and it sucked!!! I prefer to read technical info when it has a story to it
I think it would be great if there where more articles like the one's Pete writes from other climbers. It would give me more info to absorb. If there where index's like Pete has made I would find the information easy as well.
This forum has several people with some amazing knowledge..... why cant we leave it at that? If Petes personality bothers you than deal with his personality PRIVATELY...... I know my personality has bothered some big deal......so we don't all agree........ I wold be pretty creeped out if we did.
Cheers to ALL who provide the valuable information that makes up these forums!!!
Mike
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wonderbread
Apr 14, 2003, 10:06 PM
Post #47 of 66
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Perhaps a ruler could help settle this d1ck measuring constest???
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alpinelynx
Apr 14, 2003, 10:45 PM
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yes!
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socalclimber
Apr 14, 2003, 11:28 PM
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That's exactly what this is about. Climbing. What Brian is bringing into question is this:
PTPP claims to be a master wall doctor, and to be one of the greatest wall climbers around. Brian brought up a number of points, but one that truely stuck out in my mind was the fact the PTPP aids through the tough scarey free sections. If he is a wall master, then he should have no problems leading the 5.11 offwidths, chimneys etc.
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billburning
Apr 15, 2003, 12:08 AM
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If he were truly a wall master, he'd climb walls other than El Cap as well.
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