shes pretty darn awesome. he can probobly climb a water fall (not frozen) hah

Hard to say what this means really, is Sharma really that good and the route that suited to his strengths that he could almost flash a 14D when nobody has flashed 14B yet or is the route a little overgraded? I guess it would be hard to compare this route to alot of other 14D's as it is very short, pretty much a highball problem or so it seems.

Someone needs to do that little 17 foot high wonder sans cord so that the bolts can be chopped on it.

I'm doubting that Sharma really cared what others thought...

You're probably right....he didn't care what anyone else thought. He probably just looked at it and said, "I think it would be fun to work that one..I should probably clip the second bolt first." It's a 14d for goodness sakes so he probably thought he was going to work on it a few days. Usually when people work on climbs they top rope them. That's what I would do. If I look at a climb and I think I'm going to fall then why risk it? Just for a try at a flash without clipping....that's dumb. I don't think he's like that.

Let's be real. Do you brag about your greatest top rope ascent?

What?!?! You don't try to go for the flash or onsight if you think you're going to fall? Come on now, getting onto a route and climbing into the unknown is part of the challenge.

Someone needs to do that little 17 foot high wonder sans cord so that the bolts can be chopped on it.

Imagine what kind of discussion we'd be having if Sharma fell and landed on a ledge but didn't weight the rope and continued on from the ledge to complete the climb.

Joshy8200:
The point is, the style in which the third and fourth ascensionists used to make the climb is considered valid in the climbing community. Stop acting like you could do better. Oh, and making unrelated comments such as, "I don't need you dumbasses to point out..." only detracts from your point. Stick with the subject, buddy. And go climbing. Style is a personal decision - you make your own rules.

Joshy8200:
The point is, the style in which the third and fourth ascensionists used to make the climb is considered valid in the climbing community. Stop acting like you could do better. Oh, and making unrelated comments such as, "I don't need you dumbasses to point out..." only detracts from your point. Stick with the subject, buddy. And go climbing. Style is a personal decision - you make your own rules.

Foolish boy. Have you ever even SEEN the route? You need to, and touch the starting holds. I think you would change your mind about the ROUTE completely.

Stickclipper pretty much said it all. If you wanna try to do cordless, feel free. Just don't do it while I'm around. I don't wanna have to help carry you to the ambulance.

Fiend, drop it already...your points make no sense. Maybe if someone actually believed that you saw the route then someone would listen to you.

Fiend, drop it already...your points make no sense. Maybe if someone actually believed that you saw the route then someone would listen to you.

Oh and to the dude who claimed the first ascensionist has the right to bolt whatever they want... does that mean I can bolt cracks if I FA them? Maybe I'll bolt some boulders in the North Walls over here in Squamish.

Have You seen the landing!!????? :lol: It would be pretty hard to protect unless a person hauled 20 crash pads and a few air matresses up!!!

Let's be real. Do you brag about your greatest top rope ascent?

Let's be real. Do you brag about your greatest top rope ascent?

2)
Your an idiot. LOL :D :D :D Not to be rude, but I think your getting way to emotional about this. Chill out. Just cause someone said that the FAist has the right to bolt whatever they want does not mean that all the other rules of routsetting go out the window. But you are right about not bolting cracks.

Everyone relax and go climb something

Everyone who got their panties in a wad over it needs to relax a little.

Dave Graham put up the Fly. Looking at some of the other stuff he has put up, and having talked with him, he seems to grade things pretty stiff. He gave the Buttermilker a V12, got upgraded to V13. Spectre from V13 to V14. I was talking to him and he says Emotional Landscapes is like V14 (Klem thinks it is V15) and Bungelestein (sp?) is like V13 (again, i think Klem gave it V14). Tony Lamiche said The Fly was like V14, which easily equates to 5.14d without a doubt. So stop huffing about the grade just cause Sharma did it quickly. The man has flahsed V13 for God's sake!

Whew. It's a good thing that Sharma, Graham, Kehl, Lamiche et al have people here at rc.com to defend their honor against detractors. Where would they be without us?

Further thought reveals that without us these hardmen would quite probably be working sh--ty jobs like the rest of us and climbing on weekends, since every time one of us buys a subscription to Climbing or Rock & Ice, or shells out for Anasazis, a new Bluewater rope, or the like, we are paying little bits of what passes for these climbers' respective salaries.

You just realized that?

I agree with Karl ... actually, here is an editorial piece that sums up how I feel about 8a.nu's article (which is the problem, not Chris' send)

Question I have is: are they still calling it a 5.14d if it's top roped or free solo'd or is the rating of the climb lower when you don't have to lead it? ie. rate it 5.14d as a lead exactly the way Dave Graham did it but only 5.14c TR or solo.

Let's be real. Do you brag about your greatest top rope ascent?

Actually, I think Mark's points are pretty valid. He's making more sense than most of the tools in this thread. And look at the title under his username, ferchrissakes! ;)

He almost did flash it on his first try though.

He fell on the last move and the next time he got there he pulled it. So it was close.

Question I have is: are they still calling it a 5.14d if it's top roped or free solo'd or is the rating of the climb lower when you don't have to lead it? ie. rate it 5.14d as a lead exactly the way Dave Graham did it but only 5.14c TR or solo.

Joshy, unless you always clip below your waist, you toprope every climb you do too.

more rocks, but not of the nice, flat, caring for your pretty face type. It's more or less a jagged talus.

The move is very hard to control. This is where most attempts fail.
A fall from this move sends you way back, tumbling and twirling.
(you at least twist an ankle IMHO).

Not caring is the deal here, because, while on his flash attempt, having done the 3 first moves, he was searching for the right foot beta, he simply decided to let go after a while. I highly doubt that making history was part of his thoughts.

Anyone with the slightest selfish thoughts about being the greatest climber ever would have tried anything to finish such a flash attempt.

So, if someone like Kehl, who is perhaps the only guy with strong enough fingers and big enough balls to try it solo, says he'd rather not, you should believe him more than pictures, videos, and every little opinion on the internet.

And if people like Sharma and Lamiche don't care about one or two bolts clipped, and you know for a fact that they do not care about their image either, maybe you should revise your definition of ethics.

Well, he certainly couldn't have almost flashed it on his third, or fourth, or seventieth try, could he? ;)

He fell on the last move and the next time he got there he pulled it. So it was close.

Question I have is: are they still calling it a 5.14d if it's top roped or free solo'd or is the rating of the climb lower when you don't have to lead it? ie. rate it 5.14d as a lead exactly the way Dave Graham did it but only 5.14c TR or solo.

First, do not try to evaluate what type a person is from interview when you haven't met him, or have met him briefly and spent like hours dreaming and wondering about his perosnnality. "I read his interviews and I don't think he would let go". How ridiculous is that. What a valid point.

Was I there? No.
However, 2 of my good friends were, filmed his send, and were shouting beta during his flash attempt. I think they reported it to me correctly.

I will have to retract my "only valid point", cause Kehl just stopped using a rope on it and will send very soon (if not today). He is, however, using a different sequence on the last moves (not going towards the sloper like Toni) to stay on moves where he can control the fall.

Finally, "revising your ethics", not exactly.
The point was more towards seeing through the ethical background of the accomplishment.
There is a problem with definitions and ethics when people do not report clearly what happened.
Saying you redpointed a route versus saying you did it with 5 (out of 6) first bolts pre-clipped (to report the same deed) is different and misleading.
What you should revise is your way of evalutating the value of an accomplishment through ethics.

In this case, no one was hiding anything, trying to pass as better in ethics as they were, and these people (Sharma, Lamiche, Kehl, etc) never do, cause they don't give a s---. They just do whatever and that's it, and people shall report it how they want, you still should avoid pinning bad behavior or naysaying on the people who acheive that stuff.

The 8a.nu headline was: Sharma almost flashes The Fly.
Yeh, its blurry, but if you had seen that s---, you would be saying that as well, and probably be very excited about it.

I just re-read your post.
I wasn't implying you have to be selfish to hang on, simply that if a thought about "making history" would have crept in your mind, you would be more inclined to hang on. It was a bad way of adding to the fact that this climb was probably not as meaningful to him as it may be to the "whole wide climbing world".

As long as people are honest about what they did, there is no need to debate ethics about past accomplishments (that do not have bad consequences such as scarring the rock, etc). They are what they are.

Sharma sending The Fly in 4 tries ... WOW! Show me the footage!
Sharma 'almost flashing the Fly' ... then reading that he didn't ... a letdown.

So noone is impressed whith Sharmas style of climbing the route, huh? What about Kehls solo of the route on the 7th?