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rockscaler2
Mar 8, 2004, 4:31 AM
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I was bouldering today at Camelback Mountian in Arizona and heard soem screaming from above on another route(Hart Route). So i looked up and saw 2 guys swatting at something like bees or wasps and then I looked away. When i turned back because of some more yelling I heard I only saw one climber and then the other one fell smashing his back and head on the rock yelling falling in the process and doing a few somersalts. He fell about 70 feet. Rescue workers didnt actually get to him for like 40 mins cause of where he was. Well anyway I feel sorry for his family and his partner who was sent to the hospital for just bee stings.
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roughster
Mar 8, 2004, 4:40 AM
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He may have been a hiker:
In reply to: Bees may have led to man's death Ryan Konig The Arizona Republic Mar. 8, 2004 12:00 AM Swarming bees or hornets may have led to the death Sunday of a man who fell 50 feet at Echo Canyon on the north side of Camelback Mountain. The unidentified man in his 30s apparently was either driven off the trail while hiking, or fell while climbing near the trail, by the swarming insects. Another man, about the same age, was treated for about 100 stings. Initial information indicated that the injured man's stings not life threatening. Assistant Fire Chief Bob Khan said it is unusual for bees or hornets to attack hikers. "Typically you don't see it. But we do know that there are hives on some of the trails." He added that last year a firefighter was stung at least a half-dozen times on a north Phoenix trail during a training exercise. The rescue call for the two men was received at about 4 p.m., about the same time that another call came in for a woman who had injured her leg on the east side of Camelback Mountain, on the Cholla Trail. Her injuries are not life threatening. About 65 firefighters from Phoenix, Scottsdale and Tempe took part in the two rescue efforts, with help from two Phoenix Police helicopters. Additional information about the victims was not immediately available. Last year, Phoenix firefighters recorded 93 mountain rescues. So far this year, there have been 13 rescues, according to a Phoenix Fire Department spokesman. Typically, there are one or two fatalities per year. |
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ebelay
Mar 8, 2004, 4:43 AM
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According to the local news, they were roped and on a route. Of course, they still referred to them as "hikers".
The name of the victim has not been released. If anybody else has any information, please post it here.
ER
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climbingaz
Mar 8, 2004, 5:10 AM
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The 2 guys were not hiking, they were climbers. Just saw it on the 10pm local news.
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rockscaler2
Mar 8, 2004, 5:25 AM
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I was right there man...they were climbers...Roped up too...He unclipped for what reason I dont know...maybe the bees stinging him and then he fell. He also wasnt wearing a helmet man...that was crazy...and my first eyewitness to a lead fall..
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swohletz
Mar 8, 2004, 7:50 AM
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wow, I almost went there today....crazy stuff. Prayers go out to his family and friends...
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epic_ed
Mar 8, 2004, 7:58 AM
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Just saw this -- anyone have an ID of the climbers or any other info? I've got a bad feeling about this one.
Ed
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rockscaler2
Mar 8, 2004, 8:25 AM
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I was there too today. I'm engaged to rockscaler. The cops made us stay until 7:30pm to get our statements. He fell at 4:20pm. The cops said only that the guy was 34 years old. It was really sick. From where I was (I was higher up on the trail than my fiance at the time), I felt like I could grab him. He took a real bad fall. I am really sorry for all his friends and family. As for the climber/hiker thing. I don't really believe that it matters, but for sake of not downplaying the man's ability, he was definately a climber. Before he fell, his partner was yelling for him to downclimb, then someone screamed "Call 911", then he fell, yelling falling. Again, I just want to send my thoughts to his friends and family.
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metrogroaz
Mar 8, 2004, 8:41 AM
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whoa, i was just climbing at camelback on friday. It's freaky to think something like this happened. I did see alot of bee's though while i was there, although they didnt hassle me. oh well next time i climb there, it will be a sobering climb thinking about this sad event, why is it climbing is so fun, but things like this happen.
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micronut
Mar 8, 2004, 8:48 AM
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In reply to: I was right there man...they were climbers...Roped up too.....and my first eyewitness to a lead fall..
If this is true, where the hell was the belay? Did he have any gear in if he was leading? How did he detach from the rope? doesn't makle sence. Awful nonetheless. Rockscalers, what a terrible thing to see.
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climbsomething
Mar 8, 2004, 9:07 AM
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The details are so fuzzy and not making much sense- when more become available, please, somebody post them.
What I know of The Hart Route is that it's a 5.2, and it's popular for novices. People also free solo it; I've even seen a guy down-soloing it- but the guys were roped up, so that's not the problem? It's possible he lost control of a rappel in his panic over the bees- but his partner told him to downclimb? My best guess is he was leading, became spooked by the bees and fell. And I don't know if this matters or not but the rock quality at Camelback is iffy- it's called Crumbleback for a reason. That's a general statement though- I have not climbed The Hart Route myself.
I am, of course, only speculating, and not making any judgment calls. I wasn't there, and I don't (think I) know the climbers involved (gosh, Ed- you've got me worried :? ). I'm just curious like everybody else. It's a terrible, terrible day when a climber dies on the rock. May peace eventually find this climber's family and friends.
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wildduck
Mar 8, 2004, 9:16 AM
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deattached ? Downclimb ?
he was on a rope right ? where was the belayer ? he got stung and ran away ? I'm so confused...
condolences to his family....
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climbsomething
Mar 8, 2004, 9:48 AM
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The Hart Route (assuming that was in fact their route):
"An easy old classic." 5.2, 4 pitches. Accessed by doing one of the approach pitches on the Headwall (usually the bolted 5.4ish) Gullies and slab climbing. Descent is by scrambling down gullies to the main rap above Pedrick's Chimney. Nearby routes include Misgivings, a 4-pitch 5.8, and Hard Times, a 2-pitch 5.7.
This is a really bad pic (taken from a drugstore box camera from the summit of The Monk) that shows The Hart Route. Arrow points to a free-soloer high on the route.
http://hillarydavis.com/...pshots/hartroute.jpg
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rockscaler2
Mar 8, 2004, 11:51 AM
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Ok from what I saw and gather from rescuers info....belayer gets stung and unclips(they were clipped into biners instead of a firgure-8 follow through I think) leader falls and ropes slides through any gear if he even placed any. Me personally, I didnt see any or hear any pull so they were probably just scrambling up it because it is yes a 5.2 and it was the Hart Route. Look in your phoenix Rock II and the Falcon guide,..it says under the climb right next to it about getting stung and 2 climb to the left it says huge active hive below bolt and this is information from the first ascenters in 1965.
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traddad
Mar 8, 2004, 1:30 PM
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My condolances. Hiker, climber, it matters not.
Beware of bees in AZ. I was talking to an Ag Extension guy a while back and he stated: "There are no bees in Arizona that aren't Africanized". You see bees, you walk, climb, rap the other way. Treat these guys like what they are....intelligent hunter-seeker guided missles that won't stop until you are out of their territory. It only takes a couple of stings to close your eyes.
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joshklingbeil
Mar 8, 2004, 2:57 PM
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I've ran in to bees on some of the climbs at Camelback.I've never been forced off the climb. I was working out there on friday And the rock/mud was a little wet/soft. My Boss wanted me to go climbing with him at camelback on Sunday but I ended up going out to Queen Creek.Anyways condolences go out to his family.
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stick233
Mar 8, 2004, 2:59 PM
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i've done the hart route before and there is definate truth to the bees. when you get to a ledge there is a bees nest that you can kind of duck under and around. then you go up over a slab to a better stance. my friend and i hustled through there but the bees did not bother us. we were lucky, i don't think i had any pro in when i did it.
as for the route, protection is total crap on it. i didn't place one piece i really felt i could fall on. we think: it's only 5.2 no problem. beware the intangibles. my condolences...
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climberchic
Mar 8, 2004, 3:08 PM
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Apparently, the hive was on the second pitch of the Hart Route. I know from experience that bees seem to always be worse when it is hot out, and yesterday being as warm as it was....maybe this agitated the bees??
Still very sad...my thoughts go out to his family, his partner, and the two here that actually witnessed it. Must be very traumatic.
I know I did not get a lot of sleep last night...you always wonder if it could have been one of your friends. I spoke with a firefighter who was near the accident, and I was told the above (about the second pitch of Hart's Route) and the danger of the bees in that area, and that the victim's family (who's parents lived out of state) have not yet been notified. I can tell you that I didn't recognize either of the climbers' names (if this eases anyones minds at all).
Very tragic accident. I have no idea if a helmet would have saved his life, but this is a scary reminder about the importance of wearing one, even on very low grade routes. Sometimes, there are very unavoidable circumstances that have nothing to do with your abilities as a climber.
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yay_chris
Mar 8, 2004, 3:09 PM
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So, basically, the bees only attacked the belayer, right?. He was getting stung a hundred times and couldn't run because his partner was tied in somewhere above on the rock.
He then panics and unclips from the belay to escape from the bees. He yells, "Downclimb!" to warn his partner that he is off belay and should get back down. But his partner falls, which leads to his death.
So what was the right thing to do in that situation? The belay was in big trouble no matter what...
The only thing I can think of is yelling to the leader to clip into protection directly from his hardness and waiting until he does before running for it.
But still... that takes enormous effort to withstand the pain of being stung repeatedly over and over. Not many people wait still for very long. Your natural instinct to run from the pain would kick in.
I feel really bad for both of them and the family of the climber.
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skd_az
Mar 8, 2004, 3:13 PM
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Last year, 4 of us started the Hart route and turned back because of the bees. The bees are between pitches; you have to get close to them to climb and belay the next pitch. We were stupid and had removed our gear from the previous picth, heading for the next pitch and THEN started debating on whether we should keep climbing or go back down. It took us a at least five minutes of QUIET arguing and one of us getting stung once before we set up the gear to go down.
Since then I have gotten into beekeeping - I was at 3 of my hives yesterday at 4pm - same day and time of accident, but across town. My bees were ape-shit, way active. Came back at 6pm and they were way mellower.
I think we were very lucky a year ago, but on the other hand this is a popular route and is climbed all the time. Climbers do know about these bees - I've heard people discussing the best time to climb to avoid the bees. Knowing a little about bees, early (and cold) is better than late (and warn) - bees are much more active when its warm.
My condolences to the climbers' families.
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epic_ed
Mar 8, 2004, 3:25 PM
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Just giving this a bump. My initial concern was for a former roommate (Bob) or some of his friends. He lives very close to Camelback, loves climbing there (can't figure that out), and is frequently taking people up there. Just talked to him, and he is unaware of who the climbers were. Erica, thanks for the info. My other immediate concern was that it may have been someone we know from the site -- but the outcome is tragic, nonetheless.
Ed
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rradjc
Mar 8, 2004, 3:27 PM
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Two very good friends of mine had just finished their rappel of the Monk when this happened. I can't really get out of them exactly what the specifics of the situation was, but both guys were attacked by the bees. Francis states he clearly saw the lead climber unclip from where he was and try to downclimb in a panic. He was most concerned with the leader so he's unsure what the belayer was doing. Victor did his best to scream to hikers below to call 911 but apparently most people simply waved back hellos to him. I'm told one man was from out of state and the other from El Mirage, Az. They somehow got the bees to leave them and Francis held the guy for about 30 minutes before he passed on. Rescue crews got there about 10-15 minutes later. That's all I know at this time.
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steelmonkey
Mar 8, 2004, 3:30 PM
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In reply to: So, basically, the bees only attacked the belayer, right?. He was getting stung a hundred times and couldn't run because his partner was tied in somewhere above on the rock.
This is not true as far as I know. The news reported that both climbers had been stung over a hundred times. Very sad when I saw this on the news last night. The news station then gave a list of info about HIKING safety. Sheesh! This morning's report gave the names of the two climbers...I only caught the last name of one of the guys. I think it was Passenger? I think this was the guy who lived.
I'd love to hear more solid details about exactly what did happen, so hopefully someone will get some solid info posted here rather than guesses. I think other climbers can learn from things like this and if you haven't already considered this as a possibility while out climbing (pretty much anywhere in Arizona), then it's time. Not much you can do, but maybe not go into super-panic if you've considered your game plan ahead of time. Easy to say, I know...
I haven't done the Hart Route in a lotta years, but used to do it for fun once in a while, usually solo. Guess that's off the list now. Climbers headed up to the Monk might want to be extra careful as well.
A few months back, we were hiking up to Pinnacle Peak and there was a swarm of bees massed on a rock right on the side of the trail. I was totally amazed that the city of Scottsdale didn't completely shut the trail down and bring in a bee dude to remove the swarm. People were stopping to check them out and taking pictures. Amazing.
Anyways...climb safe and careful out there!
G.
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rradjc
Mar 8, 2004, 4:40 PM
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The best information I have:
Both climbers had finished the first pitch. The belayer was at the top of pitch 1 and the leader was in the middle of pitch 2 when the bees attacked both people. The belayer and leader both unclipped and downclimbed the route. The belayer made it to the ground with multiple bee stings and the leader made it within 50ft then fell. The bees followed the climbers and then apparently made some attacks to the rescuers, hindering help. The lead climber bounced and then landed on his head. He was not wearing a helmet, but I seriously doubt it would have had an effect in this case.
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