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jt512
May 30, 2002, 8:02 PM
Post #26 of 28
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
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Sorry about the confusion I may have caused regarding the figure-8 knot. The term "figure-8" refers to several different knots. Wrt tying two rappel ropes together, two different figure-8 knots can theoretically be used: a figure-8 follow-through, which when tied, has the tails pointed in opposite directions, or a knot that I'll call an overhand figure-8, which is tied with the tails parallel like a simple overhand knot. It is this latter knot, which was apparently used in the accident.
These knots and others have been pull tested. The figure-8 follow-through is considered a safe rappel knot (though I would back it up with double fisherman knots); the overhand figure-8 is not. The overhand figure-8 indeed rolls at fairly low loads, as apparently happened in this accident. As I understand it, the overhand figure-8 used to be approved by the Canadian version of the AMGA; however, after seeing test results, they withdrew their approval.
Unlke the overhand figure-8, a simple overhand knot tied with one-foot tails does not roll at low loads, is easy to untie after it has been weighted, and is less likely to jam when the ropes are pulled. Retrieving a stuck rappel rope can be dangerous in its own right. Consequently, I feel that the overhand knot is the safest knot for joining two rappel ropes.
Will, thank you for clarifying what happened. Your post may indeed prevent accidents like this from recurring.
-Jay
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climb512
May 30, 2002, 8:48 PM
Post #27 of 28
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Registered: May 19, 2001
Posts: 468
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deepest sympathy to the family, but, come on, the best way to help others avoid this problem is to talk about it. tradgedy , brings out the whys and hows. we talk about it, and move on, hopefully not to repeat the same mistake.
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dsafanda
May 30, 2002, 9:01 PM
Post #28 of 28
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Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
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I agree but people were speculating as to the cause with out having any idea what actually happened. Now that we know there are definitley lessons to be learned.
I like the basic overhand knot as well. I just found out this is also called the "European Death Knot". Strange name...I think it's actually the safer knot.
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