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Fenst
Jan 23, 2008, 12:41 AM
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I am purchasing a helmet here very soon especially after reading some threads about people dropping gear on their belayers head. Who should wear the helmet if there is only 1 avaliable the belayer or climber while sport climbing? Does the situation change when the leader is leading trad?
Or is this all situational? Example, leader is leading a really ran-out climb and is pushing their limits....then would the leader take the helmet?
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csproul
Jan 23, 2008, 12:46 AM
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the person who had the sense to buy the helmet.
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caughtinside
Jan 23, 2008, 12:47 AM
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It depends.
On steep sport with loose rock, I'd say the belayer should wear the helmet.
On trad with loose rock, it's a toss up.
If there's no danger of loose stuff, such as a runout slab, the leader should wear the helmet.
just my opinion.
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coastal_climber
Jan 23, 2008, 1:16 AM
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Both. It's cheaper than the alternative.
>Cam
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caughtinside
Jan 23, 2008, 1:18 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: Both. It's cheaper than the alternative. >Cam
That doesn't answer the question.
It might be better for both climbers to have helmets. It also might be worth thinking about the issue of what to do if you find yourself at the crag, and only have one helmet.
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climbsomething
Jan 23, 2008, 1:21 AM
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Majid does.
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epoch
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Jan 23, 2008, 2:20 AM
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Fenst wrote: I am purchasing a helmet here very soon especially after reading some threads about people dropping gear on their belayers head. Who should wear the helmet if there is only 1 avaliable the belayer or climber while sport climbing? Does the situation change when the leader is leading trad? Or is this all situational? Example, leader is leading a really ran-out climb and is pushing their limits....then would the leader take the helmet?
The leader.
Any other scenario the correct answer is that you return to your car and acquire two before progressing any further up any rock. (This applies to our bouldery brethren too...)
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sticky_fingers
Jan 23, 2008, 2:53 PM
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I'd say the belayer because of the significance of roles. Lemme try to explain.
If the leader isn't wearing the helmet and gets injured (let's go so far and even say knocked out), the belayer can either haul or lower him/her to administer aid.
If the belayer gets injured (or knocked out), he/she might drop the leader at best a rope length, or at worst, all the way down (I'm sure everybody belaying ALWAYS tie in, right?). This assumed the belayer was using something like an ATC. Another scenario could be if the belayer was using a gri-gri and gets knocked out. There's a good chance that the leader might not be able to escape their position and descend/ascend safely to help the belayer.
Give it to the belayer.
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erin
Jan 23, 2008, 3:05 PM
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belayer
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dingus
Jan 23, 2008, 3:05 PM
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It depends. I'll elaborate for five dollars, e-wire.
DMT
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sed
Jan 23, 2008, 3:12 PM
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i've been in the situation where i have the only helmet. i tend to keep it on my own head, unless it's a sport line or an easy pitch on loose rock. usually i keep it for my own brain, i'm selfish that way.
S
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markc
Jan 23, 2008, 3:15 PM
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This topic came up not long ago, and the other thread is here.
If I only had one helmet, I'd let the situation dictate which person wore the helmet. At a single-pitch sport crag you won't really have traffic above the leader. If the area is known for loose rock, I'd give the helmet to the belayer. (The belayer should probably belay off to the side, as well.) If the rock in the area is solid, the leader may be better off with the helmet.
This becomes more difficult to answer in a multipitch climbing environment. In that case, I might give it to the person belaying the leader. Rockfall or other dropped objects from parties above are more likely, and an anchored belayer won't have the same ability to move.
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jermanimal
Jan 23, 2008, 3:16 PM
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Evaluate the situation. If there is loose rock and the possibility of a wicked whipper into the wall, you might have to play paper/rock/scissors. No not really, talk though it.
1) Is it still safe to climb without a second helmet?
2) Is a fall going to send the climber into the wall or not?
3) Is the falling debris from the climber going to come down in the path of the belay?
4) Is there another way to protect the belay? Can you safely anchor the belay to avoid a rush to the wall in a fall and have them step back or to the side 10-20 ft.
I think common sense would say if you are contemplating this situation and figuring out how to protect the climbing and the belay and really can't decide...you should heed #1.
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alexmac
Jan 23, 2008, 5:16 PM
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You return to the car. Go get the other helmet.
Leader on some tough sections blows off some rock that hits the belayer in the head, belay is done . Leader being stetched out and run out falls.
One dead leader, belayer if luck while knocked out has the rope run through the belay device unless tied into the end, then well, depends on if the anchors hold :)
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dingus
Jan 23, 2008, 5:22 PM
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caughtinside wrote: It depends.
As usual.
Caught nails it first two words.
DMT
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markc
Jan 23, 2008, 5:48 PM
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alexmac wrote: You return to the car. Go get the other helmet.
People keep bringing that up. What other helmet? The OP didn't say, "1 helmet, plus 1 in the trunk." Is it so hard to operate within the constraints of the scenario? Why don't we spin it so the two guys go play checkers instead?
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hiyapokey
Jan 23, 2008, 5:53 PM
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Non straw man response: Both people should be wearing a helmet, so the correct choice should be choose not to climb, or if it is considered an acceptable risk to climb without a helmet then it doesn't matter who wears it.
Straw man: If the better climber belays safely and the worse climber belays in an unsafe manner. Who should lead the climb. In this situation, the climb is harder than the worse climber can send.
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caughtinside
Jan 23, 2008, 6:04 PM
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markc wrote: alexmac wrote: You return to the car. Go get the other helmet. People keep bringing that up. What other helmet? The OP didn't say, "1 helmet, plus 1 in the trunk." Is it so hard to operate within the constraints of the scenario? Why don't we spin it so the two guys go play checkers instead?
Many of those people are total wankers, mark.
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shimanilami
Jan 23, 2008, 6:24 PM
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Perhaps the new style climbing helmets are different, but my old HB is clearly not designed to protect against impacts from the side, like a skateboarding or bicycling helmet would. My helmet is made to protect from things being dropped on it, like a construction site hard hat.
So if your one helmet is like my old HB, then clearly the belayer should be the one wearing the helmet. He's the one who might get gear, ice, or loose rock dropped on his head.
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cchildre
Jan 23, 2008, 6:26 PM
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I give my belayer my bucket when he doesn't have one.
Exception is when I am working on a sketchy trad line.
Thing is, unconscious climber can be lowered by a conscious belayer safely. Unconscious belayer means the climber has to get himself down, and that could be complicated if there is a Gri or Cinche involved.
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geezergecko
Jan 23, 2008, 7:35 PM
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Let's say that it's my helmet.
If I'm leading, would I give it to the belayer, the person who holds my life in their hands? I think so.
If I'm belaying, would I give it to the leader, the person who is uphill to gravity? I think not.
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pug
Jan 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
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OK, I don't think this has been said yet: How about the person who feels safe without a helmet doesn't wear one? If neither person feels safe without a helmet, don't climb.
Of course, feeling safe doesn't mean you ARE safe, but neither does wearing a helmet. The point is, you should do what makes you most comfortable.
If you want to be safe, go home and sit in your rocking chair (just don't rock too far back!). When you rock climb, you assume risks. If you aren't comfortable with the level of risk, you do something to mitigate it or you don't climb.
So, perhaps, the question becomes "Who has a greater risk of injury, which could be mitigated by wearing a helmet: the climber or the belayer". At which point the answer becomes: it depends. 
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epoch
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Jan 23, 2008, 8:46 PM
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epoch moved this thread from Injuries and Accidents to General
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billcoe_
Jan 23, 2008, 8:50 PM
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Neither, leave the f*ing thing in your car and remember that 99 percent of the time, it is what is INSIDE your head, not OUTSIDE your head that makes you safe.
You are welcome.
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speedywon
Jan 23, 2008, 9:02 PM
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I used to toss my absent minded partner my helment while I was leading. After seeing a few head over heals lead falls (granted, most of them involved careless footwork on the part of the leader), I started tossing him my cinch instead.
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