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sterlingjim
Mar 7, 2008, 3:58 PM
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I'm looking to gather information and reports of accidents or near accidents related to rope markings. That is markings that are not the center. I've read a few reports of such incidents and am wondering if there are more. These incidents are where a climber mistakes the 1/4 marks or end warning marks for the middle mark.
The purpose for gathering this information is to determine if there is any point in manufacturers forming an agreement to place all the markings at standardized locations, if the ropes have them at all. There will be a meeting of the UIAA in May where this could be discussed if it is deemed relevant or important.
Disclaimer: having marks at standardized locations should not preclude climbers from securing the ends or verifying the locations of the ends of their ropes.
Please PM or email me (jim-at-sterlingrope.com) the reports as I don't want this to be a lengthy or contentious thread. If you'd like to have discussions on this topic please start another thread.
Much thanks,
Jim
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sterlingjim
Mar 7, 2008, 4:48 PM
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Feel free to keep this bumped to the top.
Thanks,
Jim
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reg
Mar 7, 2008, 5:04 PM
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sterlingjim wrote: ....These incidents are where a climber mistakes the 1/4 marks or end warning marks for the middle mark. Disclaimer: having marks at standardized locations should not preclude climbers from securing the ends or verifying the locations of the ends of their ropes. Much thanks, Jim
i will send pm to you if i come across any - majid, wanna step up here?
it's hard to believe that that happens - but goes to show how dangerous end of the day rappin can be - always tie knots - among other things!
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notapplicable
Mar 8, 2008, 12:11 AM
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Here are a few as penance:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...eter%20mark;#1714252
In reply to: The black mark I thought was the middle of the rope was the 10 meter mark on the end. Her rope had both a middle mark and two end marks. I had never seen a rope of such...and had blindly rapped off the anchor
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...end%20marks;#1625663
In reply to: Now here's where the mistakes began.. I had flaked the rope into a bag (rescue style) as this is how I like to keep my rope. I fished around for the middle mark, and attached it through the two locking D's... Apparently Mammut puts warning marks (identicle to center marks) on the ends of their ropes. Those marks, just fyi, are a very poor place to snap in to rappel. |
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legion
Mar 8, 2008, 12:41 AM
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I would be perfectly happy if manufacturers would just make it a practice to mark the middle of every rope sold with something that will a.) last more than two or three months, unlike most dyed middle marks b.) not raise the price substantially, unlike most bi-patterened ropes and c.) not kill me, unlike the dreaded sharpie marker
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irregularpanda
Mar 8, 2008, 1:08 AM
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legion wrote: I would be perfectly happy if manufacturers would just make it a practice to mark the middle of every rope sold with something that will a.) last more than two or three months, unlike most dyed middle marks b.) not raise the price substantially, unlike most bi-patterened ropes and c.) not kill me, unlike the dreaded sharpie marker
Ditto that.
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sterlingjim
Mar 8, 2008, 4:03 AM
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notapplicable wrote: Here are a few as penance: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...eter%20mark;#1714252 In reply to: The black mark I thought was the middle of the rope was the 10 meter mark on the end. Her rope had both a middle mark and two end marks. I had never seen a rope of such...and had blindly rapped off the anchor In reply to: Now here's where the mistakes began.. I had flaked the rope into a bag (rescue style) as this is how I like to keep my rope. I fished around for the middle mark, and attached it through the two locking D's... Apparently Mammut puts warning marks (identicle to center marks) on the ends of their ropes. Those marks, just fyi, are a very poor place to snap in to rappel.
Thanks. Got those.
I hear people's suggestions but I'm not actually looking for those right now. If you have requests or suggestions about products just fire me an email. I won't be able to act on them in any sort of immediate way but it would certainly be good for me to keep them in mind for the future.
I've gotten a few good reports already, all with happy endings thankfully. They all have the same thing in common: mistaking the outlying marks as the middle.
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sterlingjim
Mar 9, 2008, 12:08 PM
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routine bump
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reno
Mar 9, 2008, 5:10 PM
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sterlingjim wrote: routine bump
Jim, I made this thread "Sticky" so it will remain at the top of the I&A forum. Just let me or another moderator know when you feel the thread has served it's purpose, and we'll "unsticky" it.
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majid_sabet
Mar 11, 2008, 1:11 AM
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reg wrote: sterlingjim wrote: ....These incidents are where a climber mistakes the 1/4 marks or end warning marks for the middle mark. Disclaimer: having marks at standardized locations should not preclude climbers from securing the ends or verifying the locations of the ends of their ropes. Much thanks, Jim i will send pm to you if i come across any - majid, wanna step up here? it's hard to believe that that happens - but goes to show how dangerous end of the day rappin can be - always tie knots - among other things!
I already PMed Jim
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sterlingjim
Mar 14, 2008, 5:17 PM
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Thanks for the sticky, RENO!
I was out of the country for a few days. Sorry to the folks I haven't responded to and THANKS to the folks that have sent me info.
Jim
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cracklover
Mar 14, 2008, 5:49 PM
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No accidents or near-accidents from me, Jim, but I'll say this: I like my Mammut Genesis ropes, but I'm considering going with (e.g.) Sterling, just to avoid those stupid "end" marks Mammut puts on their ropes.
So it's not an accident story, but it's a vote with my $$ story, and manufacturers may want to hear that, too.
GO
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majid_sabet
Mar 14, 2008, 6:21 PM
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One suggestion Jim
Make the two ends and the center mark (tape) to glow at night. That will help when you need to rap in dark or in a cave where it is hard to see the center mark or find the ends.
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WVUCLMBR
Mar 24, 2008, 7:08 PM
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Or you could try wearing one of those head-light-thingy's....As far as rope marking, I think every rope should have identical markings no matter who the manufacturer. Personally, I vote for one black mark in the middle about 6-8in long (makes it easy to see when flaked on ground) and marks @ 5-8 meters. Here is my question.....Can the marks near the ends be a different/brighter color? Idk...my Mammut has these little red threads sewn in near the ends....hard to see. What I'd really like to see is a 1-2in band @ 5m (preferably white or bright yellow). Just my 2 cents. Also, my wife would like a rope with butterflies or some other girly pattern.
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notapplicable
Mar 24, 2008, 9:48 PM
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WVUCLMBR wrote: my wife would like a rope with butterflies or some other girly pattern.
I'll take one of those!
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itstoearly
Mar 25, 2008, 1:39 PM
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I think I would prefer to see 2 black marks, about 10cm long (4 inches) each, at the center of the rope, spaced another 10cm (4 inches) apart, with the middle being between them. This was I will look for 2 bars for the middle, and not see one bar and perhaps mistake it for the middle when it is really the end.
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 22, 2008, 2:21 PM
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I feel that the only safe way to mark the ends of the rope is with safty orange any dark color can be mistaken for the middle mark. Jim did you get the leg fracture at frankenstine earlier this winter? Did anyone determin what the rappelling fatality at Poko was caused by? Did the rope found with the victim have end marks? As I recal the rope was found only through one half of the rap device but no mention of end marks was published publicly.
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knightrain
Jun 18, 2008, 4:44 AM
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Check out
http://friendsofyosar.org/rescues/missions/10-12-07_ChurchBowl.html
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notapplicable
Jun 26, 2008, 3:39 AM
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This is starting to look like another one.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...6;page=unread#unread
One big middle mark on the rope, that is all. ONE GOD DAMN MARK.
Its past time for the climbing industry to get their shit together on this one.
Edited to re-phrase due to harshness.
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Jun 26, 2008, 3:42 AM)
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stymingersfink
Jun 26, 2008, 4:15 AM
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notapplicable wrote: This is starting to look like another one. http://www.rockclimbing.com/...6;page=unread#unread One big middle mark on the rope, that is all. ONE GOD DAMN MARK. Its past time for the climbing industry to get their shit together on this one. Edited to re-phrase due to harshness.
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livinonasandbar
Jun 26, 2008, 4:51 AM
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Apparently, the industry also needs to ensure that pattern changes on duodess ropes actually occur at the mid-point. A friend of mine recently discovered such an error, which was significant enough to cause him to fall while on rappel.
The pattern change on my new duodess is about 2 feet off of center... I checked it immediately after learning of my friend's experience.
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notapplicable
Jun 26, 2008, 4:57 AM
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livinonasandbar wrote: Apparently, the industry also needs to ensure that pattern changes on duodess ropes actually occur at the mid-point. A friend of mine recently discovered such an error, which was significant enough to cause him to fall while on rappel. The pattern change on my new duodess is about 2 feet off of center... I checked it immediately after learning of my friend's experience.
He might still be able to argue the case that they should replace his rope with a new one. If he had caught it right away it would have been a no brainer but even now, I would send that thing back.
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stymingersfink
Jun 26, 2008, 5:02 AM
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livinonasandbar wrote: Apparently, the industry also needs to ensure that pattern changes on duodess ropes actually occur at the mid-point. A friend of mine recently discovered such an error, which was significant enough to cause him to fall while on rappel. The pattern change on my new duodess is about 2 feet off of center... I checked it immediately after learning of my friend's experience.
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