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Climbing_Pink
Apr 7, 2009, 2:49 PM
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I've been getting a lot of PM's about my training program, so I decided to share.
The goal of my program is to maintain muscle balance in my chest and triceps, while keeping my strength high and bulk low (don't wanna get to heavy)
I would recommend it for someone with no shoulder injuries since the chest/tri days are pretty intense if you're working at the highest intensity you can..
Chest/Triceps Days (1-2 days a week) As long as the intensity is there once a week is ok
1. DB incline chest press: 8 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps (at max weight each time)
2. Flat Bench Press: 4reps, 6reps, 8 reps (at max each time)
3. Fatigue plyometric push ups x 3
4. Triceps cable pull downs, 3 sets of 10 reps
5. Triceps dips, 3 fatigue sets
Abdominal workout:
Every other day: pick 5 exercises, do each for 1 minute consecutively and take a 1.5 min rest in between circuits.... do 3-4 times
Leg work out (I do this -maybe- once a week.)
Yoga ball leg extensions: 2 sets of 15: light weight
Machine leg extensions: 2 sets of 15: light weight
Lunges: 2 sets of 15: no or light weight
Back and Biceps: climb 2-4 times a week or if a climbing day and if I can't get in do series of pull ups (dead hang, assisted, inverted, different grips)
Cardio: 3-5 times a week 25-45 minutes, bike or HIIT on tread
A usual week for me looks like this..
Monday: Cardio 30min HIIT, Chest and Tris
Tuesday: Cardio 30 min bike, Climb 2hours, Abdominals
Wednesday: Cardio 30 min
Thursday: Cardio 30 min, abs, climb 2 hours
Friday: 60 min bike, Chest Tris, legs
Saturday: Climb 2 hours
Sunday: Rest/climb
There it is, hope someone gets some use out of it... I've done this for a year and went from flailing up 5.8 after taking some time off to leading hard 10's and following 11's and a 12 if I'm lucky
(This post was edited by Climbing_Pink on Apr 7, 2009, 2:52 PM)
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jermanimal
Apr 7, 2009, 2:53 PM
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Everyone should note to warm up before doing #1 and #2 with such low reps. Climbing_Pink is doing the weights after Cardio sessions, very smart.
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Climbing_Pink
Apr 7, 2009, 2:58 PM
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Oh yea forgot to mention that... have to warm up before #1 and 2 or you'll blow out your shoulders :)
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boracus
Apr 7, 2009, 5:08 PM
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CP-
I like the fact that there are other climbers out there working "pushing" exercises at a high intensity. Kudos, and I hope that it keeps you healthy and strong. I'm not sure why this hasn't caught on more as a way to keep improving pulling power given that it's these muscles that counterbalance the pulling agonists to keep the joint stable while pulling???
I'd also agree that you wouldn't want to jump into a training routine like this w/ out having healthy shoulders to begin w/.
I was wondering how many years total that you've been climbing?
cheers,
BA
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Climbing_Pink
Apr 7, 2009, 6:08 PM
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I've only been climbing 4 (I think) Maybe 3 years. I took about 4 months off the first year I started (boyfriend problems unfortunately) which brought my progression way down.
I've been climbing what I would consider seriously for about a year now. I wish I lived closer to a crag, looking at grad school in Boulder or BC.
I've been to Squamish and Red River Gorge and have done a couple boulder comps (one I actually placed in haha) So I'm still a baby to the sport.
Look me up in another 5-10 years and I'm sure to be kicking so serious milti-pitch epic trad ass...hopefully :)
(This post was edited by Climbing_Pink on Apr 7, 2009, 6:08 PM)
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granite_grrl
Apr 7, 2009, 6:24 PM
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Sounds like you're in the same boat as a lot of Michigan people. I think tend to make frequent weekend trips to the Red in the Spring and the Fall, the up to the Bruce during the heat of summer (heck, I make the trek up to the Bruce in the summer to avoid the heat too!).
Unfortunally living where you do means a lot of driving, but you can still get a lot of good climbing in.
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Climbing_Pink
Apr 7, 2009, 7:00 PM
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Are you in Michigan GG? What gym do you train in? I heard Anne Arbors gym is pretty kick ass, big overhanging lead wall.
I'm really fortunate to have such a good route setter as a gym owner in Windsor, if any of you have been to Gibraltar or know Kev, you'll know what I'm talking about. His grading is really consistent with outside, although I still always get my arsse handed to me on the first trip (probably a mental thing)
We're also really fortunate to have the Red so close, I really really wanna go to the New this summer and hopefully the Gunks?
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granite_grrl
Apr 7, 2009, 7:04 PM
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Ha! No, I'm in St. Catharines. I've just met a ton of Michigan people climbing up on the Bruce and a little down at the Red.
You should certainly make efforts to get to the Gunks and the New. FWIW, the New River Rendezvous is happening over Victoria Day weekend. Already having a holiday makes it easy to attend.
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Grizvok
Apr 15, 2009, 5:46 AM
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jermanimal wrote: Everyone should note to warm up before doing #1 and #2 with such low reps. Climbing_Pink is doing the weights after Cardio sessions, very smart.
Hmmmmmmm?
Cardio should be done after weight training.
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jfitzpat
Apr 15, 2009, 6:12 AM
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Grizvok wrote: Hmmmmmmm? Cardio should be done after weight training.
That was conventional thinking in weight training circles. The theory was that the cardio produced catabolic hormones, which break down the ATP (muscle 'fuel' for the anaerobic strength training).
But a couple of newer studies, like one from the Human Performance Research Center at Brigham Young, seem to show the opposite.
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Grizvok
Apr 15, 2009, 6:40 AM
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jfitzpat wrote: Grizvok wrote: Hmmmmmmm? Cardio should be done after weight training. That was conventional thinking in weight training circles. The theory was that the cardio produced catabolic hormones, which break down the ATP (muscle 'fuel' for the anaerobic strength training). But a couple of newer studies, like one from the Human Performance Research Center at Brigham Young, seem to show the opposite.
Not quite, that isn't at all the reasoning behind why I believe cardio should come after weight training.
Weight lifting does tend to be anaerobic (and therefore requires ATP) which means your body will be using up your glycogen stores as energy to fuel your muscles during lifting. What this means for us is that by the time you switch to a cardio exercise your body has depleted quite a large number of its glycogen stores already and will more readily switch to oxidizing fat as an energy source since the carbohydrate amount stored in the body is small"er".
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17277595
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/223/55
Here are a few sources to back up my point. You will definitely notice that the debate is pretty hot especially in the second article, but the writer comes to the conclusion that:
* Combining weight training and cardio (aerobics) provides more benefits than either form of exercise alone.
* No study has assessed the long-term effect of exercise sequencing (i.e., weights vs. cardio) on muscle mass, fat and bodyweight. We can make inferences based on short-term responses to the exercises.
* If you have time, do one form of exercise in the morning and the other in the evening. Separate workout sessions by at least eight hours to maximize performance. The sequence is your choice.
* If you can only train once a day, choose the sequence according to your goals. People who want to emphasize endurance capacity should do cardio first, while those most interested in muscle mass and strength should lift weights first.
* It's not clear which sequence causes the greatest fat loss. Doing cardio first results in the greatest increase in post-exercise metabolism. Weight training first increases hormones that speed fat use (growth hormone, epinephrine and norepinephrine).
* People who want to maximize muscle mass while losing fat should lift weights first and do cardio afterward.
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fresh
Apr 15, 2009, 1:12 PM
Post #12 of 27
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no squats or deadlifts?
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Climbing_Pink
Apr 15, 2009, 2:01 PM
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For my goals I don't do them. Very good exercises, which some argue are key staples for any exercise program.
I however, want to keep my lower body as light and flexible as possible, so I only do exercises to strengthen my knees (since I have bad knees.)
The yoga ball leg extensions hit the hamstrings and the posterior supporting muscles of the knees quite nicely, about the same without the hypertrophy of squats or deadlifts.
One might argue that I could just do high reps and low weight for both, but with my personality I'd lift as much as I could so I just stay away.
But squats and deadlifts are an awesome exercise if you're looking for pushing and lifting power of your legs...I'm not
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fresh
Apr 15, 2009, 3:44 PM
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yeah the benefits you get from squats and deadlifts are in the legs and lower back, so you might not want to overload yourself there. even with low weight and high reps, it's hard to avoid hypertrophy  . but more importantly (and the reason I advocate them as part of any program), they strengthen the inner core musles more than maybe any other exercise.
another reason is that (and it's totally possible this is hullaboo, so I'd like to hear some other viewpoints) since these exercises work more muscle groups than any other exercise, it benefits even groups that aren't being worked. when your body needs to rebuild a ton, all other body parts benefit as well. but I'm not going on any science, just common sense.
just some thoughts, take it or leave it. at the end of the day it's your goals that matter. 
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jfitzpat
Apr 15, 2009, 3:47 PM
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Grizvok wrote: * No study has assessed the long-term effect of exercise sequencing (i.e., weights vs. cardio) on muscle mass, fat and bodyweight. We can make inferences based on short-term responses to the exercises.
We don't have to make inferences, we can look at professional sports. Massive amounts of weight training is done just subsequent to games during professional seasons.
Frankly, I think that strong assertions either way are more personal preference than science. Most of what we thought we knew about muscle tissue is up in the air with the latest research.
Again, professional athletes in team sports tend to weight train just subsequent to high cardio activities, and plenty of body builders switch it around the other way. Both manage to achieve pretty high levels of fitness, so I suspect that it is a lot like arguing about CAM manufacturers.
Every brand has its diehard fans, but I'm happy to scavange them all as booty...
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Climbing_Pink
Apr 15, 2009, 4:07 PM
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Thanks for the input...
I have much better exercises for core strength the deadlifts and squats if you want some, I definitely would not give a client looking to increase static tension in their core a squat and deadlift routine,
I can see where someone might think it helps, but there are much better exercises
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fresh
Apr 15, 2009, 4:54 PM
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sure, I've love to hear about some better exercises.
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krusher4
Apr 15, 2009, 5:07 PM
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fresh wrote: sure, I've love to hear about some better exercises.
Are you training for climbing...because there is no climbing in your routine?
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fresh
Apr 15, 2009, 5:33 PM
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krusher4 wrote: fresh wrote: sure, I've love to hear about some better exercises. Are you training for climbing...because there is no climbing in your routine?
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Climbing_Pink
Apr 15, 2009, 6:41 PM
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fresh wrote: krusher4 wrote: fresh wrote: sure, I've love to hear about some better exercises. Are you training for climbing...because there is no climbing in your routine? huh? I was suggesting exercises for the OP as part of her training routine.
Usually for static training of the abs (a lot of the stuff needed for climbing as you need to tighten your core to hold body in for steep inclines) I would reccomend any type of static holding, here's some good ones,
1. Get two bosu balls (those blue half ball things) balance your forearms on one, and your toes on the other, try and touch opposing knees to elbows, repeat each side about 12-20 times
2. On a yoga ball go on all fours and extend opposite arms and legs, hold each one out for as long as possible, might want to start with just one arm as this one is hard.
3. Sit on top of a bosu and extend each limb one at a time, then opposites, then ipsilaterals then all four, hold each for ~20 seconds and lean back engaging the abs as much as possible,
if you do those three in circuits 3-4 times its a good static ab work out, climbing incline always helps too :)
And Krusher... I'm not sure who you referring to for training to climb, because if you read my whole post you would see I climb 4 times a week buddy 
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aerili
Apr 15, 2009, 9:34 PM
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Grizvok wrote: Weight lifting does tend to be anaerobic (and therefore requires ATP) which means your body will be using up your glycogen stores as energy to fuel your muscles during lifting. What this means for us is that by the time you switch to a cardio exercise your body has depleted quite a large number of its glycogen stores already and will more readily switch to oxidizing fat as an energy source since the carbohydrate amount stored in the body is small"er".
Part of the problem with this theory is similar to the problems behind the theory people (like Body for Life) who advocate doing cardio first thing in the morning before you eat, yadda yadda, in order to burn more fat:
1) You must understand that you cannot burn fat without also burning some carbs at the same time.
2) The problem with depleting your glycogen prior to cardiovascular exercise is that you then cannot train as intensely or for as long. Thus, you burn less calories. People need to quit thinking about cardio as "burning fat" and start thinking of its end goal as BURNING CALORIES.
3) All my ex phys classes showed that improved and enhanced fat burning occur in individuals who become more trained (and therefore also more fit). Fat:carb burning ratios in a fit person could be something like 80/20 for a given cardio exercise, whereas an untrained person could be diametrically opposed in their ratios.
C'mon, you think carb depletion alone is going to change metabolic pathways so drastically?
The fact is this: you get fit and trained aerobically by working hard. You can't do this without good glycogen stores. Fatigued muscles can easily make for a shitty aerobic workout and overtraining to boot.
I've programmed cardio after weights occasionally but only as short bursts of cardio. I find most people are too tired and their aerobic component suffers.
In reply to: If you can only train once a day, choose the sequence according to your goals. People who want to emphasize endurance capacity should do cardio first, while those most interested in muscle mass and strength should lift weights first. Separate workout sessions by at least eight hours to maximize performance. The sequence is your choice. People who want to maximize muscle mass while losing fat should lift weights first and do cardio afterward.
Can you cite something to back up this black and white advice?
I can pretty much guarantee you there is no consensus on such programming modes and a lot of literature conflicts in these areas.
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Grizvok
Apr 15, 2009, 10:08 PM
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First of all, I think fasted cardio is the dumbest thing in the world. Secondly, I've lifted weights quite a bit and I know how my body reacts to different stimuli especially cardio and weight lifting and I can effectively gauge how tired I feel at the time.
My main point is that the type of cardio brought up by the OP is HIIT. If you know anything at all about HIIT (which I assume you do) then you know that it should be done at an incredibly high intensity and that it "should" be done on it's own to achieve the best workout (and most calories burned) possible. You really SHOULDN'T be able to perform a good weight lifting session afterward if you do it right.
I guess I do agree that people really should focus on the calories being burned more than trying to "oxidize fat."
I also agree that getting the best quality workout is important but you MUST remember that lifting weights is in my opinion just as important as doing cardio to burn fat. Along with a good diet it will help preserve lean mass and strength increases are not at all uncommon on a caloric deficit. If you or the OP find yourself equally tired after weight lifting as you are after a 30 minute HIIT session then I'm sorry to say but you are doing it wrong.
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fresh
Apr 16, 2009, 4:25 PM
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those sound like great ab workouts. do you do anything to work the rest of your core? anything to strengthen your diaphragm?
I'm gonna continue the sales pitch even though I realize you've certainly done your homework.
you stated one of your main goals as being to keep your strength high and bulk low. common sense tells me that if you want to build overall strength in the body, perform movements that engage the largest muscles. even groups that aren't being worked will benefit. to reduce the bulk, keep the weight low and reps high.
squats and deads also require the body to support tons of weight, so you will improve balance and stability. they require you to breathe under pressure. and if done with proper form, they build static core strength as well as any workout.
it's not all that climbing-specific, but those two exercises will substantially prepare you for any athletic task you'll ever do. so unless you're planning only to become a professional sport climber, you'll probably be happy to use them.
ok, sales pitch done. just like any exercize philosophy, I could be wrong, and if so I'll hopefully realize that before too long. just some stuff to think about. I hope you continue to enjoy your program even if it doesn't include squats and deads
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Climbing_Pink
Apr 16, 2009, 4:38 PM
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fresh wrote: those sound like great ab workouts. do you do anything to work the rest of your core? anything to strengthen your diaphragm?
Like I said in my OP I do abs every other day and increase dynamic strength (contractile and rotational) by doing circuits of 5-12 exercises each 1 minute long with no rest targeting all the major muscle groups, I find fatigue works the best for abdominals
fresh wrote: ..you stated one of your main goals as being to keep your strength high and bulk low. common sense tells me that if you want to build overall strength in the body, perform movements that engage the largest muscles.
Very true, but I'm training for climbing specific (as mentioned in my OP) I want to keep the lower body as light as possible and my upper body as strong as possible, I could care less if I can push 300lbs with my legs...like one of my freakishly strong friends Jen
fresh wrote: squats and deads also require the body to support tons of weight, so you will improve balance and stability.
Also very true but there are much better climbing specific balance exercises that can be done, and honestly if you have a strong core the balance benefits from squats and deads arn't really gonna help yea much 
Also, about the high reps thing... I have this pesky little thing called estrogen, so I can train hard low rep pyramiding style and not get all manly....
Counter argument
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fresh
Apr 16, 2009, 5:38 PM
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cool. just wanted to make sure you weren't writing anything off 
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