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arete2
Nov 26, 2001, 6:25 AM
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Well I have been wondering whether or not I should post this for some time. So here it goes, as I sit back and think about the number of times I have seen a black person while I am climbing, I cant think of any, so are there any colored climbers at RC.com, and in the world for that matter. I have really been wondering about this for some time, and I hope I dont get hate mail, or get hunted down for this. Remember God made the rocks, thank him for them.
Enoch
[ Edited to change title. ]
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2001-11-27 15:45 ]
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fiend
Nov 26, 2001, 6:32 AM
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I have thougth about this as well. I know quite a few non-caucasian climbers (egyptian, chinese etc) but have only met or seen one or two black climbers.
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nikegirl
Nov 26, 2001, 6:52 AM
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As far as my Gym goes...
I see a mass of multi-cultural climbers.
Mostly caucasian.
Secondly of Asian decent.
I see a few African American, kids, on a Saturday younger kid program.
I think this is a good subject.
I would like to see more diversity.
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pushfurther
Nov 26, 2001, 8:59 AM
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this guy at my gym is black and posted on the gyms website as T.O.B.G. (the only black guy.)
to arete..why do you still refer to black folks as "colored?" i'm not getting on to you, just curious..
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rocmonkey
Nov 26, 2001, 9:17 AM
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With the racial tensions in South Africa's past we also tread lightly around subjects like 'black & white' etc.
At the climbing store where I work in the afternoons we had a similar chat. A psyche analist asked whether we had black climbers and the thing we realised that in their culture it is insane to climb up a rock face when you have a perfectly good path going up the hill.
Because we in South Africa still have plenty of rural areas where they do still walk miles for drinking water etc.
They can't grasp the logic behind it, and it is something that will only be understood by black people when we invite these people to join us. Some whites don't like climbing, so some blacks WILL like it, it is called equilibrium.
We just need to get them involved so they can try it out.
Great topic for change
breathe stone
R C
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daisuke
Nov 26, 2001, 2:18 PM
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It's an interesting phenomenon of which I have no comprehension. aside from rock climbing you rarely see black people involved in other sports as well: hockey, snowboarding/skiing, tennis, etc. black ppl have the athletic capability to be good at all these sports but for some reason they just don't get involved. perhaps they are at a disadvantage because of their height? I'm short and have trouble reaching for holds sometimes but a german friend of mine is so tall he seems to have trouble using handholds that I'm comfortable with (and he also can skip 4 of my moves in one reach, green with envy). but then he's more of a beginner than me.
I guess we'd have to get the oppinion of black ppl.
D
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sauron
Nov 26, 2001, 3:51 PM
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I saw two black guys when climbing yesterday... (Well, more milk chocolate colored, but you know what I mean..)
(And yes, I fully expect to be yelled at for this completely non-politically correct comment...
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climber1
Nov 26, 2001, 5:01 PM
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I have only seen one black dude at a climbing gym. I have only seen one or two blacks outside. this may not be pc, but blacks tend to gravitate more toward team sports as opposed to individual sports (IMO).
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bmsullivan
Nov 26, 2001, 5:21 PM
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I was at Joushua Tree with AMC over T-day. We had an excellent African American climber there. Although it seems most people that I do see are Caucasion or Asian.
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jaydoc
Nov 26, 2001, 6:04 PM
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Maybe we should have quotas so that the african-american population is equally represented at the crags. This is tongue-in-cheek, of course. The answer to this is fairly simple. There aren't more black climbers because, apparently, they don't want to climb. I, for one, can't think of anyone that would actually discriminate against a climber because of differing ethnicity.
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talons05
Nov 26, 2001, 6:38 PM
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Haha, that's right. You can't really say that the lack of black climbers is due to discrimination and elitism. How so? There are no fences around most climbing areas. Books are available, as is this site. I have never seen a message here saying "if you are black, we won't help you get into climbing" In fact, I've never seen anything like that anywhere. If you want to climb, then climb, it's that simple. That's one of the great things about climbing - color is not an issue. Also, coming from the southern U.S., I resent the fact that so many people have the idea that we are backward and still prejudiced. While there may be a few bigots left in their back woods trailers, they are, in fact, a minority. Do not speak of prejudice and stereotypes while you continue to apply the same to others.
AW
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jds100
Nov 26, 2001, 7:46 PM
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Maybe before making generalizations such as "they don't want to climb...", and, "blacks tend to gravitate toward team sports as opposed to individual sports" (and saying it's your opinion doesn't make less stupid), statements which are based on limited observation, try to keep in mind what the ethnic minority percentages are for the general population. Then look at the population histories of California, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, etc., and consider that the numbers of African Americans were lower in western states, as a percentage, than for the country as a whole. As migration from the old south occurred, more of the black poplulation moved to northern and midwestern cities, as a percentage, than to rural and western destinations.
Tennis!?! Organized tennis and the clubs that produced the champions largely excluded -legally and illegally- African American (and other ethnic minorities) from participation and membership, so of course the winners and celebrities were usually white, up until the 70s (the 70s isn't ancient history to me). Same with golf.
African Americans ARE playing organized hockey. Gee, there's even at least one African American Olympic speedskater; hardly a team sport.
Just check your own perceptions against the larger reality, please. And, maybe try to be welcoming to everybody, including "the black dude" at the gym, and "the two blacks when climbing yesterday". I think it'd be pretty nice when these 'events' don't stick out in your mind, as much as seeing a great send, or just meeting a great person (such as Mike Freeman), irrespective of being "colored".
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jds100
Nov 26, 2001, 7:47 PM
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And may I request that the name of this forum be changed to reflect the fact that this is the 21st century.
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jaydoc
Nov 26, 2001, 8:10 PM
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Hey, jds, I was not attempting to make a generalization by saying, "apparently they don't want to climb." I was merely illustrating that if african-americans want to climb, that there isn't some sort of effort to keep them from doing so. Do I see a lot of black climbers? No. Do I feel that there is some sort of conspiracy keeping those who want to climb from doing it? No. Do I take into account the racial breakdown of the populations in the states you mentioned? Yes.
Do I think that you may be a tad too sensitive and reactionary in your response? Yes.
Rather than trying to read things into what others have posted, try this. Just READ what others have posted.
I would agree with your post, however. In this day and age, the name of this topic should be changed because it actually is offensive.
Jim
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fiend
Nov 26, 2001, 8:14 PM
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jds100 I can't keep up with all the pc BS, what is the latest correct term for black people?
African American signifies nationality not skin color.
Black is considered racist by some.
Colored is racist according to others.
Negro, racist.
Nigger, only black people are allowed to call each other that.
It's the context not the word itself that denotes racism. I don't think it really matters what the title of this thread is. I imagine that the title was made "Colored Climbers" out of a fear of using the wrong word and being considered innapropriate.
"It is wrong to discriminate based on skin color, when there are so many other reasons to dislike someone" -Dennis Miller.
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howieehrlich
Nov 26, 2001, 9:57 PM
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The name is kinda disturbing, but i feel that once you read some of the posts, the reason of this forum is not racism. Anyway, i dont know too many black people that climb, however, one of my best climbing firends is a black person. strong climber too!
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woodse
Nov 26, 2001, 10:11 PM
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I've only seen a picture of a black person climbing. It's like hockey ya know?
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jds100
Nov 26, 2001, 10:34 PM
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"After visiting South Africa, I will never call anyone "nigger" again." Richard Pryor
I did READ what others posted, and the phrase I quoted was a generalization, even if it was not what you were attempting. It probably isn't the best representation of what you wanted to say, either, but it's the grouping together of individuals, real and hypothetical, into a concept of "they" that I find objectionable.
I don't want to be called "white" or "Indian" or "mutt", or anything else that suggests that some personal characteristic or ability or interest can be assumed because of my skin color or ethnic heritage. That this forum took the course that it did is, in itself prejudicial, in that the discussion has been about the absence of an ethnic minority, rather than the apparent dominance of an ethnic majority. Immediately, the focus was on "them", instead of "us".
If that sounds a little too politically correct, I don't apologize. I'd rather err on the side of respect and sensitivity, than on the side of comedic expedience. Besides, I think the quote from Dennis Miller is a more supportive of what I've said, than not.
How welcoming would it be if you saw a climber and yelled out, "Hey, colored guy! Come on and climb with us!" I don't think you'd do that, Mick, because you wouldn't WANT to. I think you'd choose not to use that language because you know it's rude, not because of any desire to be politically correct. So, I'm objecting to the title of the forum because it's rude, in the context of the 21st century; not because it's politically incorrect.
Woodse: No, I don't know.
[ This Message was edited by: jds100 on 2001-11-26 14:37 ]
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fiend
Nov 26, 2001, 10:47 PM
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What should the topic have been called?
I didn't mean to attack anyone, I just don't like it when you say the topic should be changed but not give a suggestion.
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jds100
Nov 26, 2001, 10:55 PM
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Good point. How 'bout Minority Climbers, since that refers to statistical fact?
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ecchastang
Nov 26, 2001, 11:01 PM
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There is a black woman who is a climbing instructor at planet rock gym in ann arbor michigan. She is good too!
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talons05
Nov 26, 2001, 11:29 PM
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Oh, and I resent all of you who think I'm white. I'm a light-tan-colored Viking-American. Get it right you bigots...
Whoever came up with the "politically correct" term for any race or color of skin are themselves discriminatory and divisive.
AW
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vaness
Nov 27, 2001, 12:45 AM
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i dont get why people consider the term "black" being racist. does that mean they think saying "white" is racist too??? and i dont think that this post (not saying that anyone here said that) is pollitacly incorrect,racist or whater. because its the same as saying like why arent there as many female climbers right?
vanessa
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greatgarbanzo
Nov 27, 2001, 12:54 AM
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I live in Venezuela and there is a lot of ligth brown skin climbers here... but there are just a few Black people climbing (i only know 2)...
I have allways thougth that this has to do with statistics... i mean... we climbers are a minority among the popullation and black people too (at least here in Vzla and in the US) so black climbers would be the minority of the minority... for this reason you see just a few cases...
Is like if there are 5 black persons out of 100 on a state then you should expect the same percentage of black persons climbing... 5 out of 100 climbers...
anyway... just a thought!
P.S: i really sorry if i was Politically Incorrect....
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pushfurther
Nov 27, 2001, 1:00 AM
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i don't use the term african american. a black person may be of african descent, but they more than likely weren't born there. therefore, they're just american. i don't go screaming for people to call me irish american. more than likely, nobody would, anyways.
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