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drysdan
May 24, 2002, 5:35 PM
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So I'm jetting up a pretty easy route at Smith a couple days ago, and I get to the anchors, so I clip my 22kn sling into one of the hangers at the top with my 31kn locking 'biner, and call off belay. After I get down, a fellow climber on a route next to me says I am risking my life by not clipping an extra safety line into the other hanger at the top. Having never thought of this before, I ponder this for a couple days, and I'm still wondering... Is it ok to clip with just one sling. Is it redundant enough to clip just one sling into both anchors, or do I have to use two slings, one for each anchor? I'm all for safety, and I don't feel like dying, but it seems a little over redundant. what do you think?
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talons05
May 24, 2002, 5:42 PM
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Over redundant? There is no such thing. Remember, it IS your life. A sling can shred on the sharp edges of a bolt hanger... As for myself, I always use a rabbit runner or other similar piece to create an equalizing anchor... Static two point equalization is done with one sling per anchor though...
AW
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radistrad
May 24, 2002, 5:50 PM
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I say its personal prefrence... I like to use two slings.
I have climbed at Smith rock and to untie from the rope pass it through the chains and tie back in I think you ok using only one sling.
If your up there with two people and tying ropes togeather and moving stuff around I say use two slings and be redundant.
It is going to be an act of God if the one sling and biner breaks under body weight.. your call, you can always double the sling and use one biner but that is still leaving you on the one biner...
Good luck..
[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-05-24 10:51 ]
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rck_climber
May 24, 2002, 5:55 PM
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Personally, I do the same thing as Tony does most of the time. If the belay is a hanging position, awkward or I just have "that feeling" (of impending doom), I'll clip a draw to the other anchor and then into my sling - this protects against primary anchor failure, however does not protect against sling failure. If I'm feeling particularly sketchy about the anchor system or the stance (happens once in a while, but pretty rare for me), I'll set up a completely redundant sling system, one to each anchor.
That's just how I prefer to do it. Generally, I have no problem at all hooking up to the anchors in the same fashion, Tony. Hope it helps.
Mick
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brews
May 24, 2002, 5:55 PM
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If you lead the route and your partner keeps you on belay (just take the slack you need) you are backed up by the bolts on the route. i always like a back up, but its your choice.
cheers
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mikedano
May 24, 2002, 6:00 PM
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No no, I think the point isn't WHAT you're using to clip into the anchor, it's that you're only clipping into ONE of of the anchors.
There's two anchors at the top of sport routes for a reason: redundancy. Why trust your life (even if it is only your body weight) to one single bolt? Do you know who bolted the climb? Do you know if he or she knew what they were doing? Think about it.
By clipping into BOTH bolts at the top of a climb, you're significantly reducing the danger factor. If one goes, you're clipped into another one. Yes, both could fail, but I would bet it wouldn't happen at the same time. Think about it: There is NO reason NOT to clip the second bolt. Might as well do it.
As for how you do it, a separte sling into each anchor using lockers is the best, but other methods work too. I use a daisy chain.
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clymberboy
May 24, 2002, 6:16 PM
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ditto what mikedano said. how you use both anchors is up to you. just be sure not to use the american triangle.
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verticallaw
May 24, 2002, 6:18 PM
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I will always use a equalizing sling to the other anchor. I find it more comfortable than just one for one reason. I also know that it is not just my life hanging from that sling but if you are bringing up a second (or two) than you hold their lives as well. To clip to one anchor only and call "off" you are holding all your eggs in one basket. Would you muti-pitch rap off one peice if there where two aviailable????
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dustinap
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May 24, 2002, 7:01 PM
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I'd stay tied in, clove hitch into both hangers, and take a bight of the rope, pass it thru the anchors , get set up to rappel, then untie from the anchors and go.
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radistrad
May 24, 2002, 7:22 PM
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I assume that the author wants to tie into the anchor long enough to untie and pas his rope through the cahins, tie back in and be lowered to the ground.
Tie in with the rope and pass a bight through the anchors is not possible, the doubled over rope is not likely to fit through the chain and at some point (like the first thing when threading chain) the end of the rope must go through the chains.
I want to add that when you untie fro myour rope you should have it tied to the anchor at some point, you dont want to drop it!
I'll get to my anchor, tie in with the rope first, I then arrange my tie in sling/s and untie from my rope, pass it through the chain tie back in, alert my belayer, untie the rope fromb the anchor, have the bealye take me tight and then I unclip from my sling/s..
ok enough spray, and do you believe that I am getting paid to do this! Gotta love work
[ This Message was edited by: radistrad on 2002-05-24 12:29 ]
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elvislegs
May 24, 2002, 8:06 PM
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I'm still a fairly new climber so take my words with a grain of salt. I always clip first with my daisy chain and a locker, then a sling and a locker. Then I call for slack and tie a figure eight on a bight in the slack and clip that knot into my belay locker on my harness. THEN I untie and run the rope trough, tie back in, and tell my belayer to take it up. Two points in the anchors and one in the last bolt I clipped, talk about redundant. Maybe overly cautious, but this is just how I was taught and really it doesn't take much more time. Plus, with the rope tied into my belay loop I won't drop it on the deck when I untie. It really is a matter of preference between you and your climbing partners. In the book 'Fall of the Phantom Lord,' Dan Osman top ropes an ice climb with a guy on just one pear shaped biner, because he "knew it was fine" who am I to second guesse a guy like that?
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offwidth
May 24, 2002, 9:03 PM
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It's up to you, but I can recall reading about at least one serious injury occuring just last year on a "safe" sport climb because of a bolt ripping out of the rock. The leader hit the ground.
Personally, I always clip in to two bolts at a sport anchor with two slings girth hitched to my harness. I don't beleive that this is "too redundent."
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jt512
May 24, 2002, 9:14 PM
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There is a reason that there are two bolts at the top of sport climbs.
-Jay
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pelliott
May 24, 2002, 10:00 PM
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If I am planning on clipping in at the top of a route, I keep two daisy chains girthed to my harness one on each side with a locking biner on each one. I clip these locking biners into my gear loops on the sides. When I get to the top, I simply clip each daisy chain into the anchor. I like the daisy chains because I can easily adjust the distances as necessary.
[ This Message was edited by: pelliott on 2002-05-24 15:01 ]
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verticallaw
May 24, 2002, 10:12 PM
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no one has mentioned the fact that if you are just lowering off a single pitch sport route that you can clip in with 1 sling to harness and feed a bight of slack through both rings, tie a double figure of eight into the end of the bight and re clip the eye of the knot to your harness... Untie your origial knot and voilla you can lower off and clean.
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toobigtoclimb
May 24, 2002, 10:36 PM
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Redundancy Rules!
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jt512
May 25, 2002, 1:57 AM
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Quote:
no one has mentioned the fact that if you are just lowering off a single pitch sport route that you can clip in with 1 sling to harness and feed a bight of slack through both rings, tie a double figure of eight into the end of the bight and re clip the eye of the knot to your harness... Untie your origial knot and voilla you can lower off and clean.
Of course, that is only an option if the opening in the anchors is large enough to accommodate a bight of rope. If you are going to untie from the rope, you should be clipped into two anchor points. I'm surprised that there are so many climbers that have never apparently heard the maxim, never trust your life to a single anchor point.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-05-24 18:58 ]
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krazykarl
May 27, 2002, 11:00 PM
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Looking at the original queation, I see two points that both should be explored.
1: Clipping into just one, or both (or all) bolts/pins/etc. at the anchor
2: Using a single sling or multiple slings to do this
The first question is the easier to answer. I always clip into all the fixed anchors there are. Unless there is a good reason not to use a certain anchor (can anyone think of any?), I would anchor frrom them all.
The second issue is more a question of how much you are willing to gamble on your gear. Slings are strong, but you never know. substances like car battery acid (and its fumes) can severely weaken nylon with no visible evidence. What if the sling runs over a sharpo eddge or is tied directly through a thin bolt hanger? This is one of the easier ways to slice webbing inadvertantly. If you were to use a single sling, I would recommend attaching it to all of the anchors with carabiners and clipping a carabiner through ALL of the bottom loops formed and tying an overhand or figure-eight knot in the middle to prevent A) the system frrom moving if one anchor point lets go, and B) the sling unthreading its self from the system and dropping you if the sling were to break or cut at any one point. The knot alone (assuming it is tied correctly) almost makes the one sling into several by creating redundancy to failure. An important point to note if using this technique is that if the carabiner(s) connecting you to the sling(s) breaks, or if there is only one loop of webbing coming out of the knot to be clipped, you are in no better of a situation than when you started with one sling alone.
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tylerphillips
May 28, 2002, 1:10 AM
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BLAH BLAH BLAH... What ever happened to the old saying two is better than one? Is an extra minute, tops, redundant?
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