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Impulse585
Oct 11, 2010, 1:44 AM
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Has anyone used the Aviator or found a review of it?
It seems very similar in form to the Petzl Reverso or BD ATC Guide, but cheaper and with some extra bells and whistles. Thoughts?
http://www.madrockclimbing.com/products/product.asp?_item=100084
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moose_droppings
Oct 11, 2010, 1:50 AM
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Made clickable
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styndall
Oct 11, 2010, 2:03 AM
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Let me start by saying I haven't used one.
I like the idea of the little spring to make feeding easier, but I'd be concerned that it would catch on things and being generally a pain when you're not using it.
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Impulse585
Oct 11, 2010, 2:06 AM
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I can see that, but if the spring is annoying they say you can take it out easily.
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socalclimber
Oct 11, 2010, 2:40 AM
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Well, then there is no point in buying the device. It doesn't appear to offer anything the other devices do that came first.
No, I haven't used one. There really is not anything innovative about Mad Rock gear.
I'll stick with the name brands thank you.
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billcoe_
Oct 11, 2010, 4:29 AM
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socalclimber wrote: Well, then there is no point in buying the device. It doesn't appear to offer anything the other devices do that came first. No, I haven't used one. There really is not anything innovative about Mad Rock gear. I'll stick with the name brands thank you.
WTF? 
At least try it before you piss on it. For myself, I have no info either way. Looks intriguing.
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redlude97
Oct 11, 2010, 4:51 AM
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billcoe_ wrote: socalclimber wrote: There really is not anything innovative about Mad Rock gear. Have you ever seen anything like this then? [image]http://www.madrockclimbing.com/lib/resize.aspx?src=/img/up/trigger_wire.jpg&height=250[/image] For keeping the gate open when you are super sketched and trying to make that critical rope clip. I didn't think so. And by the way, Mad Rock is name brand stuff and has been for years.
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ebag17
Oct 11, 2010, 4:57 AM
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One might consider rigging it before they start the climb.
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bandycoot
Oct 11, 2010, 7:28 AM
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billcoe_ wrote: socalclimber wrote: There really is not anything innovative about Mad Rock gear. Have you ever seen anything like this then? [image]http://www.madrockclimbing.com/lib/resize.aspx?src=/img/up/trigger_wire.jpg&height=250[/image] For keeping the gate open when you are super sketched and trying to make that critical rope clip. I didn't think so. And by the way, Mad Rock is name brand stuff and has been for years.
Really? You think this worthless gimmick is innovative but Totem Cams get a one word review? Interesting...
Mad Rock makes shit gear, and you get less than what you pay for.
Josh
(This post was edited by bandycoot on Oct 11, 2010, 7:29 AM)
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socalclimber
Oct 11, 2010, 11:23 AM
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For one, I don't need gimmicks. I need basic gear. Second, I live in a major climbing area, I've
heard lots of complaints about their gear. I've also heard some positives.
If you're comparing Mad Rock to Petzl or BD, then you are mistaken.
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billcoe_
Oct 11, 2010, 1:58 PM
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bandycoot wrote: Mad Rock makes shit gear, and you get less than what you pay for. Josh
I think that has been true in the past with their shoes, but the newer hot forged carabiners are very very good. I'm not trading my rack of Heliums for them, but then how can you compare when the price is significantly less. With some of the Mad Rock product, you are paying a lot less and getting a lot more.
As far as my Totem cams comment goes Bandycoot, you are paying a lot more.... for less in some respects. I'm just surprised that any new product would be dismissed out of hand. I've never seen the belay device or the carabiner I noted, I was simply replying to the "Mad Rock doesn't innovate" comment Socal made. They do innovate. I'm not running out and buying a bunch of those, I'm just saying.
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Nick864
Oct 11, 2010, 3:09 PM
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Ya.... That design may be different, but stubai made 'biners that did that like 10-15 years ago... Madrock just revived an old concept that never really caught on. Their shoes don't last. That said, their hardware is fine for the price. Nothing great, but the gear does the trick.
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bandycoot
Oct 11, 2010, 3:27 PM
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Believe me Billcoe, I'm not dismissing them out of hand. When Madrock came on the market I was excited. In fact, they posted here on rockclimbing.com that the first 10 people to reply could buy their carabiners for $4 each if they would write a review and send it in to Madrock. My friends and I were about 3 of the first 10.
Two of those people mailed the carabiners back and asked for their money back. I held onto them purely as bail biners. The gates were so weak that 30% of them stuck open regularly. I've watched their shoes fall apart for other people. Most recently, I saw my ex-girlfriend pick up her relatively new Madrock crash pad and the shoulder straps pulled right through the roughly 1.5" webbing that attached them to the pad. Their products are crap across the board, and I don't see why anything new would suddenly be any different.
Josh
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reaeper
Oct 13, 2010, 5:51 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: socalclimber wrote: There really is not anything innovative about Mad Rock gear. Have you ever seen anything like this then? [image]http://www.madrockclimbing.com/lib/resize.aspx?src=/img/up/trigger_wire.jpg&height=250[/image] For keeping the gate open when you are super sketched and trying to make that critical rope clip. I didn't think so. And by the way, Mad Rock is name brand stuff and has been for years.
And then you can get it closed 
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cjon3s
Oct 14, 2010, 8:44 PM
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What's the point of the spring on the device? How does it make feeding easier? Looks just like the generic ATC Guide or Reverso 3.
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gmggg
Oct 14, 2010, 9:09 PM
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cjon3s wrote: What's the point of the spring on the device? How does it make feeding easier? Looks just like the generic ATC Guide or Reverso 3.
Seriously? You can't figure that out for yourself? Have you used an ATC?
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cjon3s
Oct 14, 2010, 9:53 PM
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Woah. Chilllll. I have used an atc. I still don't see how the spring makes feeding easier. Mainly from he way it's positioned. I cant envicioon how it interacts with the rope. Enlighten me?
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cjon3s
Oct 14, 2010, 9:59 PM
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Nevermind. I completely envisioned the spring being used in a totally different manner. I can see how that would make feeding a ton easier. Plus, it's 15.95  . I don't see why everyone is hating on this thing.
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darkgift06
Oct 14, 2010, 10:09 PM
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I guess for giving out slack it might be a touch easier because it would keep the locker away from the device.
But if anything it looks like having the spring between your locker & the device would add an extra peace between you locking the rope off. like if you were locking it off but the person was safe at a good rest the spring would push your locker away from the device making it not so locked..
I can't wait for someone to actually use this & take some video of it in action.
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mheyman
Oct 14, 2010, 10:50 PM
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The devive is probably fine, but I don't like disingenuous advertising - from the posted link:
In reply to: Mad Rock doesn't feel the need to copy existing designs. We much prefer to make them better
Uh - look at the picture.
As for inovation, springs have been used on belay devices long ago. try searching Clog Cosmic Arrestor.
Biners that stay open (as mentioned) search Stubia Gemnius. (Actually from the pictures I bet they were better).
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gmggg
Oct 15, 2010, 1:32 PM
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cjon3s wrote: Woah. Chilllll. I have used an atc. I still don't see how the spring makes feeding easier. Mainly from he way it's positioned. I cant envicioon how it interacts with the rope. Enlighten me?
It was more incredulity than anger. But you're right, at 15.95 it's nearly 2/3 the cost of any competing device. That alone right there is good news for someone who wants a fancy ATC.
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kachoong
Oct 15, 2010, 1:49 PM
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Impulse585 wrote: and with some extra bells and whistles.
I wonder how a device would benefit from bells and whistles? ...interesting concept! An alarm to alert you of bad technique. I'm sure the crag would be a noisy place then.
IRT this device... I'm intrigued by the little horn. I guess it helps guide the rope when locking off? Add more friction?
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Bazzy_J
Oct 16, 2010, 4:31 AM
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bandycoot wrote: Believe me Billcoe, I'm not dismissing them out of hand. When Madrock came on the market I was excited. In fact, they posted here on rockclimbing.com that the first 10 people to reply could buy their carabiners for $4 each if they would write a review and send it in to Madrock. My friends and I were about 3 of the first 10. Two of those people mailed the carabiners back and asked for their money back. I held onto them purely as bail biners. The gates were so weak that 30% of them stuck open regularly. I've watched their shoes fall apart for other people. Most recently, I saw my ex-girlfriend pick up her relatively new Madrock crash pad and the shoulder straps pulled right through the roughly 1.5" webbing that attached them to the pad. Their products are crap across the board, and I don't see why anything new would suddenly be any different. Josh
Their small, $6 biners (can't remember the name offhand) have worked great for me. Also I own their basic crashpad - It's worked great for me for the last year.
I used to think their products were crap, but at least a few pieces of their gear are quality. I still won't buy their shoes but they do offer some hardware that has proved trustworthy at very good prices.
Just my HO.
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reverse_dyno
Oct 16, 2010, 9:49 AM
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This comes from the Aviator instruction sheet. Is it normal to warn that locking off your belay device may cause it to break?
"DO NOT tie a knot or attach a mechanical braking device to the braking side of the rope. The Aviator is designed to use
the dynamic belay system and requires the rope to slide through the device to absorb the shock. If a mechanical
device or a knot is placed at the braking side of the rope while the device is in use, it may cause the Aviator to break."
http://www.madrockclimbing.com/...tor_insert_sheet.pdf
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