WARNING!!! There have been a number of break-ins at these parking areas, over the years. Secure your gear or take it with you!!! It is well known by less-than-friendly locals and less-than-honest vistors that when you park at these places and leave, you will be far from your car and gone for more than long enough to break in and remove anything of value. Anything left in the vehicle should be concealed as far as possible, and you should still get comfortable with the idea that if you leave it behind, you may not have it when you get back. Word to the wise... the folks at the New are not thieves... but there's a bad apple or two in any basket, and neither their community, nor ours, is an exception to that rule.

Yo, Peers. Clue up....

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=13477

-Jay

I feel there is a time and place for everything. Early in this thread some people mentioned that where these draws were left, it isn't common place to do so. Do you consider Rumney a pure sport climbing crag???

On the other hand.... say you are wall climbing in Zion. You fix the first few pitches of Lunar X. You plan on finishing the route the next day but it rains and you have to go to work the day after. You come back later that week to get your gear and to finish the route. When you get back it's gone. Are you the idiot for leaving your fixed lines thinking that someone would respect the process and not remove them, or are they in the wrong?

I always get a kick out of this classic gumby reply. "I don't know it's history."

They're quickdraws. A quick glance should be enough to determine if they're still 'good.' :lol: It's two biners and webbing. I mean come on, you trust bolts all the time, and you can't see what the shaft of the bolt looks like!

If someone came and cleaned the Huber's ropes while they were working on Zodiac I don't think people would say "the Huber's left for the day, it was bootey"

so when does gear go from left to abandoned? Are we supposed to leave it hanging until it rusts away?

I already have two sets of draws.

so when does gear go from left to abandoned? Are we supposed to leave it hanging until it rusts away?

if I know its a project i've seen the guy working on it or heard of it no i won't touch em, but i've i'm at my crags say 10 times in 2 weeks, never seen anybody on it and draws are there, they are there for the picking, if somebody askes about em n stuff, i'll give em back. but if the hang for a lenghy amount of time and nobodys working it, weren't put up by the first asentionist they are considered abandoned in my opinion.

WAHHH!!!!.... WAHHH!!!!..... i think some people in this thread need their diapers changed, and need to start washing with J&J no more tears shampoo.
Simple solution, if you dont want to have your gear stolen, bootied or whatever, DONT LEAVE IT! plain and simple. Not every climber is a good person like we would all want them to be.

WAHHH!!!!.... WAHHH!!!!..... i think some people in this thread need their diapers changed, and need to start washing with J&J no more tears shampoo.
Simple solution, if you dont want to have your gear stolen, bootied or whatever, DONT LEAVE IT! plain and simple. Not every climber is a good person like we would all want them to be.

what do people do about popular routes when that type of thing happens though?(just curious)

Nah gabe i'm meaning like wall climbs out west... like what happens when 2-3 groups wanna get on the classic el cap or zion routes that take multiple days and such.

it is a well worn debate.. but when you get folks telling new people who are asking the questions "they left it.. you can take it" then people that know this is wrong have to respond or the new folks wont know it..

people would freak out if someone asked "hey.. i found this backpack full of stuff at the bottom of a route and no one was around.. should i take it?" multipitch trad folk would have a s--- if sport climbers went SURE go ahead.. they left it for the taking

This debate is hilarious! Screw theory and ethics: People are s---. Not all of them, but enough. I don't think I would ever leave my draws on a route and expect them to be there when I got back. For God's sakes people, drop the damn issue. Is it ethical to take draws on a hard overhung sport line? I'd say no although many would disagree. Is it stupid to leave your draws and whine when they aren't there later? Hell yes!

nuff said...? wonder how long this forum will continue....lol... :lol:

Long as you keep bringing it back. February 20th to April 3rd. Nice job.

thanks to your god self now april 4th, ironic huh?

Nobody abandons a set of draws on a route.

If there are draws on a route that aren't yours, you don't take them. Period.

Not true. There was a full set of draws on a 10b in Maple, presumably because of the forced evacuation from fire a few weeks ago. Seasonal locals used them for about 2 weeks since the route is a pretty fun warmup and nobody had any idea who they belonged to.

A similar thing happened to me in the late 90's when a flash flood forced us out of the Box. We abandoned 2 sets of draws on warmups and couldn't make it back for nearly 2 weeks. We showed up just as a helpful young lad was loading them into his pack... I'm sure he had every intention of returning them to their rightful owners.


I took them, comma, and will happily return them to the owner. I left a note at the base of the climb and taped one to the board. But 2 weeks on a warm up route with no sign of the owners is "abandoned." Exclamation.