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timsesink
Mar 1, 2005, 10:16 PM
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I've been climbing for a while now and have built up a pretty decent sport rack (draws, cordallette, webbing, lockers, knife, daisy chain etc..) but I am wondering about buying an 8 are they worth it? I have always rappelled of my ATC and it's been fine. What are the advantages and disadvantages of an 8 compared to an ATC and vice versa (for rapping of course for all thos smart@@ses)
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theledge
Mar 1, 2005, 10:17 PM
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Personally I think that the eight kinks the rope to much, and I have no problem rapping with an ATC.
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timsesink
Mar 1, 2005, 10:18 PM
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just trying to get this on the front page!!
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gastone
Mar 1, 2005, 10:44 PM
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I like the ATC when using both halves of the rope. The figure 8 just seems to go from slow to fast with not a lot of middle ground. I feel like I have more control with my ATC.
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dklco
Mar 1, 2005, 10:52 PM
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i find i am able to rappell much more smoothly with an 8. therefore i have more control.
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hanginaround
Mar 1, 2005, 10:57 PM
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Come on guys, for repelling the figure 8 has it all over the ATC. More options for rigging, better heat dissipation and more speed when you want.
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iclimbtoo
Mar 1, 2005, 11:15 PM
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I for one definitely like the 8 better. I like to rap fast though, so it's easier on an 8. It feels a lot more smooth as well. If you rap fast, i feel that the 8 will give you more control being as it is smoother.
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bubba
Mar 1, 2005, 11:42 PM
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I dislike the 8 because it twists the heck out of my (any) rope. I read somewhere (on this site I think) that an 8 puts one complete twist in the rope every 10 feet.
ATC = zero twists = me happy 8^)
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10ftdrp
Mar 1, 2005, 11:43 PM
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from what i can see you would be using it for stick with the atc. an 8 only adds the wieght of the device and the biner.
personally if im just rappelling i use my 8. but if im actually going to be climbing to be in a situation to rappel i use the atc
just my $0.02
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badass
Mar 1, 2005, 11:44 PM
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You guys must be marines or army. Using a figure 8 instead of an atc is only practical if you've got bullets wizzing by your head or you want to look cool like in the movies. Atc's are a much safer choice for the rappell and the belay. Plus you don't need gloves. :shock:
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climb_high4life
Mar 1, 2005, 11:48 PM
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I prefer the tube style myself, nothing personal, but I think the 8 twists the rope to much. I also think that a tube style is a lot safer. I learned using the ATC so thats what I lean towards. Whereas is I learned with an 8 I would probably lean towards it. Just my opinion though. 8^)
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abalch
Mar 2, 2005, 12:42 AM
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If rappelling is all you ever do, the eight works well. As others have said, it has more options for rappelling than an ATC, and it is bigger, hence better heat dispersal. I first started into rock climbing by learning to rappell. For stopping mid rappell to take pictures, a rescue eight works great! A rescue eight is one of those that has extra horns on each side of the large part of the eight. You can very easily and quickly lock yourself off by looping the rope around those horns, kind of like you see when lashing a boat to bulwarks on the dock.
Since I believed you said you climb also, don't worry about getting another piece of rappelling specific gear. The eight does seem to kink the rope more than an ATC, and why carry any extra weight you don't need?
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cactusjack
Mar 2, 2005, 12:49 AM
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ATC IS GREAT FOR TR, U SET UP, RAP OFF, CLIMB UP, THE ATC HELPS SEPERATE THE ROPE, AN 8 CAN TANGLES YOU UP, AND MAKES IT HARD TO CLIMB UP ON.
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slavetogravity
Mar 2, 2005, 12:51 AM
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In reply to: Come on guys, for repelling the figure 8 has it all over the ATC. More options for rigging,
In reply to: better heat dissipation and more speed when you want.
As for the speed of your decent. I can't think of many situations where I couldn't slide down my rope with as much speed as I chose with an ATC.
The technology has changed and tubber devices are clearly the better choice for belaying. The only reason anyone still uses 8 for rock climbing is because they've been climbing for so long, that they're simply set in their ways. If anyone new to climbing is using one, it's because they've learnt from mr. oldschool.
I'm only speaking from experience. Once upon a time I used an 8 and believed it was the better choice for belaying/rappelling.
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bc2planker
Mar 2, 2005, 1:31 AM
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I like the ATC because it saves carrying 2 devices when im climbing.
When I am cleaning new routes, I like the 8, because its easy to lock-off. The downside is that it twists the hell out of the rope.
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baigot
Mar 2, 2005, 2:21 AM
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I have only a 8 and i donīt have a ATC, but i vote fot ATC īcause it is more reliable when rappeling and is usefull as a belay device. You can have allways in control while rappeling but the 8 is very unsefa when rappeling in 1 rope.
climb safe,
Vicente
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wingnut
Mar 2, 2005, 2:45 AM
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a figure 8 is designed for rappelling. it doesn't work well for belaying and twists the hell out of the rope, but it works like a charm for rapping. an ATC is a good all-around device, becase it is safe to use with single and double ropes and works well for belaying and rappelling. however, if you want a great rappel device, thats what the figure 8 is for. the ATC is a much better all-around device, smooth, reliable, and doesn't twist the rope.
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gunksgoer
Mar 2, 2005, 3:16 AM
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i disagree with the statement that the 8 is a better rap device, it twists the hell out of ropes, yet doesnt offer any real advantage for the actual ride. not having to carry a second device is sweet too. atcs all the way
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timsesink
Mar 2, 2005, 4:23 AM
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thanx all, good posts all round, I hink I'll just stick with my ATC even though its always cool to buy new gear.
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static_endurance
Mar 2, 2005, 4:38 AM
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I first learned on an 8, so for single line rappelling i'd definately pick the 8. You can just open up and rip down the rope with an 8, that is if it's a rope that you don't mind burning a little bit.
But for all around versatility, stick with the ATC. Single line, double line, belay, rappel, it just does more. Plus it's simple to lock off an ATC. The rest has been mentioned, so i need not say more. But IMO, 8 for pure rappel, ATC for all else.
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coldclimb
Mar 2, 2005, 4:41 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Come on guys, for repelling the figure 8 has it all over the ATC. More options for rigging, And what options are those?? In reply to: better heat dissipation and more speed when you want. You're wrong about the heat dissipation. Heat loss off of any device has everything to do with the volume to surface-area ratio. A big thick chunky 8 is going to disperse heat much slower then a small, sleek, thin ATC or tubber like device. As for the speed of your decent. I can't think of many situations where I couldn't slide down my rope with as much speed as I chose with an ATC. The technology has changed and tubber devices are clearly the better choice for belaying. The only reason anyone still uses 8 for rock climbing is because they've been climbing for so long, that they're simply set in their ways. If anyone new to climbing is using one, it's because they've learnt from mr. oldschool. I'm only speaking from experience. Once upon a time I used an 8 and believed it was the better choice for belaying/rappelling.
Pretty much word for word what I'd say. Sometimes I wonder why CLIMBERS even have a figure-8. I personally wouldn't want to carry a special device just for rappelling when my belay device will work just fine.
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climbaddic
Mar 2, 2005, 5:00 AM
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In reply to: Pretty much word for word what I'd say. Sometimes I wonder why CLIMBERS even have a figure-8. I personally wouldn't want to carry a special device just for rappelling when my belay device will work just fine.
Figure-8 is actually still used on ice climbing. When your rope freezes up, only device you can rappel down is figure-8. ATC will not work very well on frozen rope. I personally prefer ATC for rappelling. Also, some stopper knot may not work on figure-8 due to large openings. So it is safer to use ATC.
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jorian_nl
Mar 3, 2005, 9:51 AM
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I use mostly an atc for rappeling, with the atc you have more control.
I only use the eight when there are knots in the rope(rappeling 80 meters)because with an eight you can rappel over the knot's.
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