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opheliaascending
Mar 16, 2005, 6:56 PM
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I run sporadically, still trying to get in the habit for overall health physically and mentally. (also hopefully to make the approach hike a bit easier)
Anyway, my feet go numb near the end of my run, which is about 2.5 miles. The shoes I wear are Nike. I'm not lacing them too tight, I think my form is decent and I warm up.
Does anyone have any idea why this is happening? It always seems to happen at about the same time during the run.
Any suggestions on what I can do to prevent it? It's really hard to run on dead clubs and I'm concerned about permanent damage.
Thanks in advance for your response!
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overlord
Mar 16, 2005, 7:00 PM
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just guessing here, but you proably should get another pair of shoes.
your feet should be numb after running. maybe the shoes dont fit as wall as you think.
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climbinginchico
Mar 16, 2005, 7:13 PM
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Do you have Raynaud's phenomenon?
If so, the rhythmic pounding of your feet can cause the nerves to cut off bloodflow, much like the cold does. I have Raynaud's and when I run in the cold, it kills me feets.
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kermitzclimber
Mar 16, 2005, 8:28 PM
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Here are some questions:
Do you always run the same route? You said that it happens at the same time in your run, if you are heading up any steep hills then you may be pinching something cause of the way the shoes fit.
Shoes.. Have you tried any other pairs? Does it happen with all of them?
Do you live in colder weather? You may have a slower blood supply getting to your feet causing numbness.
Just some thoughts on it....
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iceisnice
Mar 23, 2005, 11:00 PM
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i use to run marathons and had the same problem on the outside edge of just my right foot. never figured out the why part of it, but, i saw an ortho and got orthodic inserts and it never happened again. he thought that the mechanics of my running form was causing a nerve to be pinched.
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johnlvs2run
Mar 25, 2005, 4:24 PM
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In reply to: i use to run marathons and had the same problem on the outside edge of just my right foot
Ophelia,
This is very easy and the same for Ice.
Your shoes are too tight.
90% and probably more of that of all people wear shoes that are too tight for their feet. Unfortunately running shoes are among the worse shoes you can get, not only very tight in the forefoot but also heel lifts that cause problems not only in the feet but also legs and hips.
Take your shoes off and hold the soles to the bottoms of your feet. You will see the forefoot of the shoe is very likely --smaller-- than your foot. Also see if the heel lift is more than 1/4 of an inch. There is no way it should be more than 1/2 of an inch. If it is then your shoes are no good. All that elevation does is put your weight on the non weight bearing metatarsals of your feet.
Ice, all the orthodics did was lift your feet higher where there was a bit more room for them, as the shoe is tightest at the base. Also many running shoes sink into a hole under the ball of your feet. They are a disaster!!!! And a disaster for your feet. My neighbor had the same problem to her outside metatarsals and never runs!!! Some foot doctor then put her in a cast for 10 weeks. Yikes!!!
I have run 36 marathons and never ever wear running shoes any more. Most of the time I run barefoot on a grass field, a track, or sandy roads or sand by the sand dunes. On roads I wear cheap roomy shoes that are relatively flat and fit well. I get these for less than $10 a pair and they are better than most all running shoes on the market. This includes 3 hour runs over roads with 15-20% grades.
I don't do marathons any more but in my fastest marathon I wore cut down 7 ounce running shoes where all the leather and insole had been taken out and I also drilled out the rubber underneath, then put 2 minutes on a podiatrist the last 4 miles haha. The course was very hilly and hot and he didn't know how I ran on those shoes but they were better than his. They were also inexpensive so now they don't make them any more.
Find shoes that fit. You feet will thank you.
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johnlvs2run
Mar 25, 2005, 6:04 PM
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My el cheapo road training shoes are 11 1/2 ounces.
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slacker607
Apr 5, 2005, 1:05 PM
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how tight do your calfs get while running? I had a problem before with my calfs becoming very tight and pinching nerves. went to the doctor and they thought it might be compartment syndrome(too much muscle for its casing) and was pinching nerves but i guess this is really rare and the operations to fix it take years to recover from. ended up going to PT and just ended up needing to strech out my calves more. my feet still go numb if i dont strech or do some intense hill training. if it becomes more of a problem go to a doctor to have it checked out.
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runningclimber
Apr 5, 2005, 1:52 PM
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Well, apparently I am not the only "runningclimber" around here. :wink:
In reply to: Your shoes are too tight.
Agreed. Your running shoes should be at least a half - if not a full - size bigger than your regular shoe size. Stand up in your shoes and press your thumb against your toes. If you can't get at least a full thumb's width there, your shoes are too small.
I've had this exact problem before when running in shoes that are even a half size smaller than my normal size. My pinky toe goes numb, and sometimes the next two toes in too.
In reply to: I have run 36 marathons and never ever wear running shoes any more. Most of the time I run barefoot on a grass field, a track, or sandy roads or sand by the sand dunes. On roads I wear cheap roomy shoes that are relatively flat and fit well. I get these for less than $10 a pair and they are better than most all running shoes on the market. This includes 3 hour runs over roads with 15-20% grades.
Well, to each his own, but this is pretty unorthodox. I haven't run 36 marathons - I'm working on number 5 - but I strongly disagree with this recommendation. The average recrerational runner should not be running around barefoot, or in $10 shoes. That is an invitation for injury. Go to a shoe store that specializes in running, get fitted properly, and pay for a pair of high quality, properly-fitting shoes. FYI, Nike shoes are some of the most overpriced running shoes around. By switching to another brand, you should be able to get a great pair for $70-80.
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booyuhka
Apr 5, 2005, 2:33 PM
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I agree with what people are telling you... I used to run alot of miles and if they are just slightly too tight, your toes will get destroyed...
I used to get running shoes for free and it was somewhat of a pain to change up the size... well one day decided to ignore the fact that they were too tight and by the time I got back from my run, I had 3 black and blue toe nails... I learned my lesson from there on out I always got them changed if they were too tight.
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powen
Apr 5, 2005, 3:32 PM
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TALK TO A DOCTOR. Nobody on this site or any other site will be qualified or capable of giving you a complete diagnosis. I had the exact same problem that you did. I asked around as well to get an idea of what it could be. I got all the same answers. I went to a doctor and was diagnosed with external compartment syndrome. It could be any of the things that these people talked about, but you won't know until you talk to a licensed medical professional.
Good luck.
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johnlvs2run
Apr 5, 2005, 3:54 PM
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In my experience, going to a doctor is about the worst thing anyone can do. This is backed up by any one who observes the drastically increased sickness, injury, and death rates from those who go to doctors and rely on their misleading diagnosis and advice. In my opinion the only reason for getting very cautious assistance from that field is trauma.
Regarding shoe tightess, yes they should be long enough. However the main problem is that shoes are too narrow. Wearing shoes that are 10% less than the width of your forefoot is begging for injuries to the metatarsals on the outside and top of your feet.
Most all mainstream running shoes also have the problem that the balls of the feet sink down in a hole. The inside is not firm and not flat. This alone can cause stress fractures and broken bones in your feet. Heel lifts put more pressure on your forefoot, making it almost impossible to run properly and causing most people to hit hard on their heels. This also results in calf injuries from trying to push off the feet in that inproper position. Note there were never any of these common injuries in the early 70's and 1960's before such shoes were invented.
Rather, your shoes should simply protect your feet from the ground and allow you to float and glide along with no effort. This way you can get over your feet and generate effective power from your hips and upper legs, instead of trying to rely on force impact from your feet and calves.
Watch tapes including slow motion of Kenenisa Bekele and El G and you can see this in their style.
These top runners never wear shoes in the American build up tight twisted shoe style. You might laugh at me wearing shoes for $10 or running barefoot but I never have any problems with my feet.
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runningclimber
Apr 5, 2005, 7:03 PM
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In reply to: In my experience, going to a doctor is about the worst thing anyone can do. This is backed up by any one who observes the drastically increased sickness, injury, and death rates from those who go to doctors and rely on their misleading diagnosis and advice.
:roll:
In reply to: Regarding shoe tightess, yes they should be long enough. However the main problem is that shoes are too narrow. Wearing shoes that are 10% less than the width of your forefoot is begging for injuries to the metatarsals on the outside and top of your feet.
Which is precisely why one should seek the advice of one who fits running shoes for a living. Different brands and models of shoes = different foot types. In my experience, specialty running stores tend to be staffed by dedicated runners who are overqualified for working retail but do it because they love the sport. And have seen just about everything when it comes to common running injuries like the original poster's.
In reply to: Most all mainstream running shoes also have the problem that the balls of the feet sink down in a hole. The inside is not firm and not flat. This alone can cause stress fractures and broken bones in your feet. Heel lifts put more pressure on your forefoot, making it almost impossible to run properly and causing most people to hit hard on their heels. This also results in calf injuries from trying to push off the feet in that inproper position.
If your theory were correct I'd expect to see a whole bunch of people walking around with stress fractures and broken bones.
In reply to: Note there were never any of these common injuries in the early 70's and 1960's before such shoes were invented.
And before the weekend, recreational, Average-Joe, 5-hour-marathon runner was invented as well. With the boom in the popularity of running over the last quarter century and the fact that many people with little natural ability have taken it up, of course you will have more injuries.
In reply to: Rather, your shoes should simply protect your feet from the ground and allow you to float and glide along with no effort.
Tell that to the average person who's running to lose weight. Every step is a struggle. Hardly a float and glide.
In reply to: Watch tapes including slow motion of Kenenisa Bekele and El G and you can see this in their style. These top runners never wear shoes in the American build up tight twisted shoe style. You might laugh at me wearing shoes for $10 or running barefoot but I never have any problems with my feet.
They are gifted and you are lucky.
The average jogger should run in modern, properly fitting running shoes.
Just my opinion. And I am *the* runningclimber. Heh. :wink:
Edited because I suck at quoting.
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johnlvs2run
Apr 5, 2005, 7:20 PM
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Luck is the result of open minded observation, planning, preparation, and good habits.
"I can tell where my own shoe pinches me." -- Cervantes
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timmay
Apr 5, 2005, 8:55 PM
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I tend to agree more with runningclimber on the shoe issue. I would go to a specialty running store near you and try on a bunch of shoes. Try on different brands as some run wider than others. For example, Nike tends to generally run narrower than many of the other brands. New Balance and Saucony run a bit wider. Make sure you also have some room in the ends of your shoes so you don't destroy your toes.
Johnlvs2run, you must be incredibly lucky to get away buying $10 dollar running shoes and never getting injured. Either that, or you have an almost perfect running form. In terms of running barefoot, it takes a long time to adjust to that and it is sometimes hard to find a good grassy surface that even allows for barefoot running.
Also, I may have never run a marathon, or 36 of them, but I used to run 60-70 miles a week. I also work in a running store, so I do know something about running shoes.
Timmay
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runningclimber
Apr 5, 2005, 9:18 PM
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In reply to: "I can tell where my own shoe pinches me." -- Cervantes
Hey, if it works for you, go with it. I'm not hatin'. :D
I just wouldn't recommend it for a beginner or occasional runner.
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johnlvs2run
Apr 5, 2005, 10:20 PM
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Yes, after wearing the usual terrible running shoes, it takes awhile to get used to running properly again. Grass fields are nice, but becoming more scarce. Dirt roads and sand dunes are very nice too, and I can easily run a couple hours around a rubberized track. For pavement though I wear my quality 11 ounce El Cheapo Premiers, which stand up quite well through 3 hour canyon runs with 15-20% grades.
I must say I have been in a plethora of running stores over the last 40 years (before that there weren't any) and never once got good advice about shoes. To the contrary it was mostly bad advice and I don't bother to go in them any more.
The book, "The Self Made Olympian" by Ron Daws has an excellent chapter or two about shoe design and construction.
As to joggers not getting broken bones, my next door neighbor wore running shoes putzing around her yard which resulted in fractured metatarsals on the outsides of her feet. She doesn't even run.
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johnlvs2run
Apr 5, 2005, 10:32 PM
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By the way here's an interesting tidbit. In 1976 or so, "Runners World" (which was a different magazine then) came out with their "shoe ratings".
They had a rating system with #1 being excellent and #5 being worst. They included shoe weight in the ratings and the shoe that I streamlined was ranked at the top, #1 in their ratings.
Then all the shoe companies and podiatrists got involved, making huge klunkers, weird designs and all kinds of shoe "experts". The next year all those strange heavy shoes were being ranked at the top, and that same shoe ranked #1 the year before was now ranked #5. 8^)
The madness continues.
Cheers.
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gym_wench
Apr 5, 2005, 10:43 PM
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Both my hands and feet go numb when I run long distances. I just chalked it up to poor circulation, and I just shake out my hands when I run. Guess that's not normal, and I should probably see a doctor while I still have insurance. :lol:
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