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singingwater
Mar 27, 2005, 12:55 AM
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I started climbing seriously with some friends back in October. At that time we all pretty much sucked at the same level. However as time went on the guys of the group started improving more than the women (my like a whole grade and sometimes more), myself included. A lot of this I think is because the average guy has a lot more upper body muscle than the average woman. So was wondering if you would have any tips on building up upper body strength?
Elise
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ladylayback
Mar 27, 2005, 2:29 AM
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Pull Ups. If you go to a climbing gym with a hang board you can watch all the boys take off their shirts and try to impress you by doing a marathon of pull ups. Unfortunately, the pull ups do help, alot. They help with your tricepts, bicepts, forearms, and grip strength. Push ups help as well, but I've never seen any of the guys competing with each other in a push up contest. Silly boys.
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singingwater
Mar 27, 2005, 2:52 AM
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thanks for the advice
Elise
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shorty
Mar 27, 2005, 3:38 AM
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In reply to: ...any tips on building up upper body strength?
My experience with a number of sports has taught me that overall muscle group balance is as important as pure strength for the dominant muscle used. Over emphasizing one muscle (say the bicep) will leave the opposing muscle (say the tricep) weaker and more susceptible to injury. Climbing hard routes is more than pulling straight down -- it involves side pulls, pushing down, pulling out, opposing pressures, and forces from many angles.
As for push ups, I find them valuable strength training for routes that have mantelling moves or wide stemming.
And finally, pure upper body strength isn't everything -- no matter how often we grunting, posing guys try to prove. One of the best partners I've ever had the pleasure of climbing with was a petite gal who couldn't do more than a couple of pull ups or push ups if her life depended upon it. But she has amazing foot work, great balance, and ridiculous flexibility. Oh yeah, and really strong fingers.
And never forget about good technique.
Bottom line -- upper body strength will help your climbing. But if you do some weight training, consider including some core strengthening, too. Core muscles are very important in maintaining body position in many harder climbs.
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chalkless
Mar 27, 2005, 4:26 AM
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Bouldering will help with upper arm strength and technique. I couldn't do anything with an overhang until I started bouldering in the gym. Now I actually like overhangs...sick, I know!
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superflea
Mar 30, 2005, 10:39 PM
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I'm with Shorty on overall muscle balance...not only will it help with a wider array of body movements, but will aid in preventing injury. I found one of the things that helped a lot on overhangs was core strength. Having a strong back and abs helps me keep my feet up on higher holds below the overhang, making it easier to reach for good holds and taking some of my body weight off my arms.
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angelaa
Mar 31, 2005, 9:51 PM
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Then there is always YOGA . . .
you could work on the things that women are know for
- flexibilty and fluid movement -
and figure out ways to keep up with the guys while
- CLIMBING LIKE A GIRL!
Sure we all need to work on strenght - so don't see this post as putting anything else that was said here down.
its just that women ARE different - so we need to train and climb as women !
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taino
Mar 31, 2005, 10:30 PM
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In reply to: I started climbing seriously with some friends back in October. At that time we all pretty much sucked at the same level. However as time went on the guys of the group started improving more than the women (my like a whole grade and sometimes more), myself included. A lot of this I think is because the average guy has a lot more upper body muscle than the average woman. So was wondering if you would have any tips on building up upper body strength? Elise
Might I offer another opinion?
From what I've seen, if a woman and a man start off climbing at around the same time and at the same level, the man is generally going to advance through the lower grades faster - because men have more upper body strength, and can pull themselves up a wall or hold on easier. Women, on the other hand, generally have to resort to actually learning technique instead of pulling themselves through everything with brute strength.
So, even though a man might be able to muscle his way up something at first - and pull ahead of a woman in grades because of it - a woman will have the advantage when technique starts to come into play, and will surpass the man in ability. Why? Because she learned technique, first. The guy will have to go back and unlearn any bad habits, and learn technique after the fact. I lucked out; I started climbing like a typical guy, and got injured almost immediately; to compensate for my injury (pulled wrist tendon), I had to learn technique - almost from the beginning. One of the best compliments I've ever received was someone recently observing that I climbed like a woman.
What it boils down to is this: don't concentrate on getting stronger. Concentrate first on learning good technique; it will make you a better climber in the long run. Learn the technique, and power will come with time.
T
P.S. - By the way... I can't do a single pull-up. Go figure.
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sarah
Apr 3, 2005, 3:22 AM
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for a strong upper body i'd say training, but also go to gnc and get protein -whey tends to build some bulk. also climb with boys as much as possible!
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angelaa
Apr 4, 2005, 1:55 PM
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the last thing I need is more bulk!
If I lift without doing Yoga I bulk up SO EASILY!
I notice that if I do Yoga in between lifting I am more long and lean, but lift only and I might as well be working on some body building circut!
It sucks!
kinda off topic, but my older brother who is a 6"3" bean pole always told me 'if I'd have been built like you I could have been a football player" and I tell him " If I'd have been built like you I could have been a model!"
oh well - all we can do is make do with the way we are built. . .
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crackrn
Apr 4, 2005, 7:41 PM
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Just gonna add to the posters who say that upper body strength is all well and good but technique will be what gets you climbing higher grades. BTW...love your name!
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iamthewallress
Apr 4, 2005, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: Just gonna add to the posters who say that upper body strength is all well and good but technique will be what gets you climbing higher grades. BTW...love your name!
Unless you define the 'higher grades' differently than I do or limit the types of climbing that you do to stuff where you can stay on your legs, I don't think that this is true. You need both.
As one tires, technique tends to deteriorate. Having more strength will mean that you'll have better stamina for keeping up the good technique. Having better technique will mean that you'll waste less energy/strength and tire more slowly.
You'll get stronger and develop better technique just by putting in your time on the rock and continuing to challenge yourself on different types of climbs.
However, whenever I've put a lot of effort into strength training (pull-downs, pull-ups, abs classes!!!), it's helped my climbing noticeably too. When I've noted a specific technique deficiency, I've tried to do a lot of that type of climbing. This type of focus has helped me to both learn the techniques and build the strength required for the new or different skill.
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taino
Apr 4, 2005, 8:15 PM
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In reply to: Unless you define the 'higher grades' differently than I do or limit the types of climbing that you do to stuff where you can stay on your legs, I don't think that this is true. You need both.
I agree. You do need both technique and strength to climb the higher grades; one without the other is futile.
However, which is better: to develop lots of power, then have to potentially unlearn a bunch of bad habits and learn proper technique - or, to learn proper technique, and get the power that comes from practicing that technique?
Personally, I'll take technique first. It's worked so far, and kept me from other injury.
Cheers,
T
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iamthewallress
Apr 4, 2005, 8:30 PM
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In reply to: However, which is better: to develop lots of power, then have to potentially unlearn a bunch of bad habits and learn proper technique - or, to learn proper technique, and get the power that comes from practicing that technique?
I guess for me it's taken so long to improve both that there is no way I could have screwed up my technique by getting 'too' strong. As someone who was quite active but still couldn't do a pull-up when I started climbing, it just wan't an option for me (and probably most gals) to develop so much strength so fast that I would even be able to think about muscling my way through climbs in the absence of other good technique.
You don't necessarily have to learn bad technique just because you're strong either. You might come into climbing being able to crank out 50 pull-ups and still be a prodigy on the slabs. It's all about whether or not you cling to the crutch of the (physical or 'technical') strengths that you bring with you. If instead you focus on your (physical or 'technical') weaknesses, you'll learn more than you will if you decide that some skills are important, and others, like improving strength, are less so.
(i.e. Don't always do moves the way that seems easiest with your current skills. Rather, try and do them the way that would be best for someone who has really consolidated the skills needed to do the climb optimally.)
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jakedatc
Apr 4, 2005, 8:46 PM
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i agree with Mel.. strength will get you out of alot of jams.. it allows you to down climb and back off stuff.. it allows you to pull through areas of bad pro to find good placements.. allows you to hang out and make sure you place good gear. plus what happens when you get on overhanging stuff.. i worked with a kid(girl) that could TR 5.9 almost 10 vertical but couldnt do 5.6 roof.. kinda limiting
to the OP i say if you are gym climbing then start on overhanging routes even if they are like 5.6-7 whatever with good holds it will force you to use your core muscles and shoulders. also you'll learn overhang techniques that will make it less strenuous.. heel/toe hooks, knee bars, efficient movements etc those kind of techniques will leave your arms fresh enough so that if your feet accidently cut or you need a long move then you'll have the strength to get through it..
both have their place so you should really be working on both
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seagypsy
Apr 12, 2005, 5:18 PM
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You know what? I use to feel that if only I could get more upper body strength I would be able to climb harder. Then I sustained an injury where my doctor told me if I continued climbing on the injury, I could not afford to fall. Something amazing happened. I got scared! I was afraid to fall and jar myself so I started climbing with more attention and precision. I realized that in the past I had been climbing rather sloppy, making moves before I knew where I was headed, flying through the air hoping I would hit a hold. Suddenly a new world opened up for me and I could visualize the sequences before making moves. My climbing improved tremdously. Also previously I had been climbing with a guy who was really negative and impatient with me. After I got hurt I started climbing with folks who gave me alot of positive reinforcement and had a mellow, joyous approach to life. I could finally relax on the rock, really focus on my climbing and my confidence in myself started to improve. I can't over emphasis how important it is to climb with people who are supportive. One other observation I have recently had as well...I was participating in a bouldering comp and at first I ignored what the guys were doing, dismissing their achievements as being based on upper body strength. Then my friend, Dave told me that I should pay attention to what the guys were doing, because they were using extraordinary technique that was not based on power moves. I watched the guys and learned so much as it was true the top climbers were strong, but mostly they were using technique over power. I think the one thing that would be helpful now is if I had stronger open hand grip stregnth...but upper body? I think its overrated!
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butterflyinthewilderness
Apr 23, 2005, 9:36 AM
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It's technique and strength. But you also need endurance training. Try some basic hangs, pull you knees upp to your chest while you do so. I like this excersise a lot. I have also recently orderd a metolius wood grip board from the US. I feel I need to develope my finger strength at the mo so that should help with that aswell as stomach back and arm strength and endurance. It is really a stop gap untill I can convince my parents that building a bouldering wall in our barn is a great idea. Before that arrives I have been working on a beam as our barn is wood framed, also push ups and sit ups. The other important part of my excersise series are stretching. Each foot up on the desk and then the other way round and lot's of leg excersises, partly because of my physio sessions but also for flexabiltity. I think it is important you get a balance of things otherwise you may end up very top heavy and just not capable to balance through your legs, i know this seems a bit extreme and it probably is.
But as an instructor once said to me, climbing is the closest sport you can get to ballet without doing ballet. And it's a lesson I will always remember, don't rely on your arms too much, it won't get you anywhere, it's the feet that do the walking and it's them that should do most of the climbing too.
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