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noisymonkey
Apr 12, 2005, 3:52 AM
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Hi everyone,
Apologies in advance for droning on, but a long post provides context for you and catharsis for me, so I'm just gonna run with it.
To preface a little, I've read a lot of threads in these forums about how to become a better climber, but I'd like to specifically hear about the experiences of other women, and my question is a little bit more specific than "how do I get better?"
Here's my climbing background. I tried gym top-roping a couple of times last August and thought it was fun. Went up north for Labour Day weekend at the end of the summer and found myself taking special notice of all the rocky outcrops. I felt drawn to them and when I walked over and touched them it felt like an epiphany -I knew I had to climb.
But I felt very new and was struggling with 5.7s in the gym. I thought I wasn't ready for the great outdoors yet, so I went back to the gym and spent the autumn diligently top-roping to prepare for next year's climbing season. I slowly got better. Took the lead course in late January and started leading in the gym and I'm now working on dealing with the challenges that come with that. It's been fun, but to be honest, I'm kind of bored of the gym. Gym climbing to me is just practice for the "real" climbing outdoors that I want to do.
I know the route (no pun intended) to becoming a climber is a long one. I am content to take my time learning because I want to totally understand everything I do. I realize it might be a while before I'm out leading multi-pitch trad routes, and that's OK. But I was really looking forward to doing some sport climbing this summer. I wanted to head out to the local crags here in Southern Ontario to climb -and lead- as much as possible. I didn't think that was aiming too high.
So today I purchased a Sport Climber's Guide to Ontario Limestone and The Escarpment: A Climber's Guide. I was totally devastated when I saw how hard the sport routes are. Of the dozens of routes listed only a smattering are under 5.10. (There are lots of moderate routes, but they appear to be trad lines, something I'm not sure I'm ready for yet, even if I did know anyone who climbed trad, which I don't.) At my local gym (Rock Oasis for any locals out there) I can only lead up to 5.9 with any consistency. Low 10s are very hard for me and always involve falls. I haven't top-roped much since I started lead climbing, but I've recently tried TRing some higher 10s, with varying degrees of success. I can TR the lower 10s consistently.
I'm feeling really sad about how woefully lacking my climbing abilities are for the climbs I want to do. I want my climbing to be meaningful. I don't want to be one of those girls mentioned in a couple of other threads here who appear to be climbing just to hang around their boyfriend. I met my bf a few months after I started climbing and we've been climbing together frequently, but he's much better than me. I had such high hopes for this summer, and now I feel like I'm going to be stuck top-roping at Rattlesnake Point or being belay slave/dutiful second while my partner leads on sport.
I really admire the experienced women climbers here. It's an inspiration to read about your outings. I know one day I'll be doing all those things too. It's just the long road to that point that has me feeling down at the moment.
So, FINALLY, my questions:
What did you do when you were a beginner like me? What did you go out and climb in your early days when your technical climbing skills were still developing? How long did it take you to reach the point you're at now and how did you get there?
Thanks.
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maculated
Apr 12, 2005, 3:57 AM
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The area that I live in, and learned how to climb in, does not really have any easy routes. There's only so many times you can top rope the awful crack before you get tired of it.
So, if you can get a top rope on those 10s, work those 10s. Over and over and over. Just keep trying. I was climbing 5.10 top rope pretty quickly that way, at least for that area. You get some moves wired, move on to the next one.
Everyone's technical skills are always developing. A few months ago I was climbing V4. I got hurt and now it's back to working V2 boulder problems. For the lucky, it's a steady progression or plateau. The rest of us spend our lives working on our skills.
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jt512
Apr 12, 2005, 5:09 AM
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In reply to: I'm feeling really sad about how woefully lacking my climbing abilities are for the climbs I want to do. I want my climbing to be meaningful. I don't want to be one of those girls mentioned in a couple of other threads here who appear to be climbing just to hang around their boyfriend. I met my bf a few months after I started climbing and we've been climbing together frequently, but he's much better than me. I had such high hopes for this summer, and now I feel like I'm going to be stuck top-roping at Rattlesnake Point or being belay slave/dutiful second while my partner leads on sport. What did you do when you were a beginner like me? What did you go out and climb in your early days when your technical climbing skills were still developing? How long did it take you to reach the point you're at now and how did you get there?
Maybe I am missing some sort of unobvious reading-between-the-lines thing that only girls can comprehend, but it seems to me that if you can follow what your boyfriend can lead, you are in the ideal situation for learning to lead that level. You can follow him on TR until your skill and confidence climbing at that level improve, at which time you can start doing more of the leading.
-Jay
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lazygirl
Apr 12, 2005, 5:11 AM
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When I first started leading I did the same thing when I looked in the climbing guide and saw there were only a few sport routes under 5.10.
What I realized, once I was out there, was that most lead routes in gyms are overhung to prevent people from hurting themselves while plenty of 10s outside are vertical or under vertical. If you can TR in the low 10s a 10 lead outside won't be that much harder after you get some of those easier outdoor leads ticked off. I started leading 10s on sport shortly after I learnd how to lead and 10 was my limit.
Also, remember routes outside have a lot more options for your feet then in the gym and it's a lot easier to smear.
And don't be afraid of getting on trad. If you really think about it, it's only a little bit more to do then clipping the quickdraw to a bolt and then the rope to that. Find a good teacher, get on some really easy leads, and practice setting pro on the ground. I just led my first trad 10a last Saturday and I've been leading trad for about two years.
Climbing is a mental sport. Just work at it and if you really want it it will come.
Good Luck :)
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granite_grrl
Apr 12, 2005, 11:28 AM
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noisymonkey - I'm going to send you a PM. The gist is that I'm from St. Catharines and I climb mostly in the Milton area on weekends. I like to spend some weekends climbing with my more experianced partners on lead (sport and trad), but I also have a great crew that are also in the learning stage. They want to start leading (gear and sport), and I'll be going out with them.
This is an invite to come out with us some day. There'll be top roping and easy leading, and a fun crew to spend time with.
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outdoorsie
Apr 12, 2005, 3:57 PM
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Sounds like there's already a ton of great advice for you here.
When I first started climbing I met my (now) husband in the gym. He was much better than me and more experienced than I at climbing outdoors. Climbing with him has always been an incredible experience, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss seconding your boyfriend's lead. For the first two summers I climbed I rarely led. It takes two people to climb (well, there's gear soloing and all, but you know what I mean). Mark would cook (lead), I'd always clean the routes. It was nice.
Also, you could always have your b-friend leave the draws on the route giving you a chance to pink point it, or have him set solid gear, and you could lead on that. These are less demanding ways to lead up a harder grade route, that could give you the confidence you need.
And don't forget the best part of climbing... ROAD TRIP! If the routes you are looking for arn't local, take a weekend and drive to a place that has some easier leads. Take two weeks and drive to the Red. Whatever. The routes are out there...
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ecocliffchick
Apr 12, 2005, 7:00 PM
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In reply to: But I was really looking forward to doing some sport climbing this summer. I wanted to head out to the local crags here in Southern Ontario to climb -and lead- as much as possible. I didn't think that was aiming too high. I was totally devastated when I saw how hard the sport routes are. Of the dozens of routes listed only a smattering are under 5.10. Low 10s are very hard for me and always involve falls. I haven't top-roped much since I started lead climbing, but I've recently tried TRing some higher 10s, with varying degrees of success. I can TR the lower 10s consistently.
The sport climbing on the Escarpment is not to be taken lightly. There are some routes that are bolted quite safely and others that are a bit more challenging (the first bolt at 25-40 ft). If you are planning to lead this summer make sure you and your belayer really scope out the climb, where the bolts are and watch for ledges!
In reply to: What did you do when you were a beginner like me?
In reply to: How long did it take you to reach the point you're at now and how did you get there?
I've been climbing on the Escarpment regularly for the past four years. Sometimes I lead, sometimes I follow. I think I lead as many climbs the first season as I did my last season. Make sure you are competent following these routes before you attempt to lead them - especially if this is your first time climbing outside. Hope to see you at the crags this summer.
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vawwyakr
Apr 12, 2005, 7:31 PM
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Everyone hits plateaus in their climbing, don't worry too much 5.10 is a common place to start hitting your first plateau. Just keep trying and pushing yourself and you'll break through.. You could also get a book called "How to Climb 5.12" it's really a training book that is designed to help you break through your current plateau.
I had the same problems with 5.10s and I just kept throwing myself at them till one day things started to click and now I'm working on 5.11s. You'll get there soon enough and don't be afraid to second the routes until you have them wired or until you feel confident on that grade.
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erisspirit
Apr 12, 2005, 10:42 PM
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Don't get discouraged, go out and top rope some of the routes you found. Then if you feel comfortable then try leading them. I am also new to sport leading, and often get pumped and fall at the 5.9s and definatly the 10s in the gym. When I went outside however the routes were not nearly as overhanging, and I was comfotably able to get through a 5.9. I still find the best is to make friends at the gym... they are usually more than happy to let you come outside with them.
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tavs
Apr 13, 2005, 5:34 PM
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Yep, just to emphasize (ok, fine, repeat, but I think it's worthwhile) what pretty much everyone else has said--following/top-roping is a perfectly legitimate way to climb and get better at it. It's awesome that you're so fired up about leading, but don't underestimate the usefulness of following. Keep up leading in the gym and on as many routes outside as you can find that you feel comfortable with, and keep following those you don't feel up to leading. Soon enough, you'll be a stronger and better climber overall and ready to lead more stuff. That was pretty much my experience, even though I was fortunate to start leading outside at a place (the New River Gorge) that had a better selection under 5.10 than many places. But I still did a lot of top-roping of things my boyfriend and other partners led, then could look forward to leading those routes when I got better. I got a special kind of sense of accomplishment from leading (and redpointing) those routes I had previously been unprepared to lead. Have fun!
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seagypsy
Apr 14, 2005, 7:19 PM
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Answer: Mostly I cried. because I had too many feelings. Then I met Ultramegaclassic and she told me to pull my act together. I fired my boyfriend, quit my job and moved underneath a bridge with trolls and started eating squirrel for dinner. My heart grew black and in no time at all I started climbing less piggishly as I became more and more insensitive. Now Ultramegaclassic has convinced me that we should get breast implants and be cocktail waitresses and live in a teepee outside of Boulder and climb at Rifle all summer...
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mother_sheep
Apr 14, 2005, 8:25 PM
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Keep on keepin on, try not to compare yourself to other people, climb super easy stuff if you have to. Love based motivation should keep you going if you really enjoy what you're doing. I know how you feel though. I've been climbing for 3 years and I still have my days where I feel like a total n00b. In some aspects I still am. 10 years from now, I still will be. There is this little theory I've been working on that helped me. It's called the Pyramid Theory. Basically, you start from the bottom (easy, easy grades), master the grades and move on to the next grade up the pyramid. It's difficult when you have partners that climb harder than you but climbing is a partnership and if your partner isn't willing to work on the basics with you from time to time, then it's time to perhaps find a new partner who will. I can't tell you enough how many times I've cried alone in total disgust with my performance on a climb. I've walked away feeling worthless because I botched something easy. I don't have these feelings as often anymore, mostly because I try to walk away from every climb (multi-pitch), having treated it as a learning experience. Even if you fail, try to learn something from your failure or mistakes. Tap into that love based motivation and enjoy yourself. For me, that's a big portion of what climbing is all about. Good luck. :-)
Thinking about where you're at inspired me to start another thread in General: http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/86446
Maybe you can find some things in it that will inspire you to keep your chin up.
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ultramegaclassic
Apr 14, 2005, 11:38 PM
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I had the great fortune to stumble across seagypsy one day last summer at the local crag when we were both still Noobs. She instantly had white hot hatred for me as I was chatting with her to-be BF and ignoring her, and THAT was the beginning of a beautiful climbing relationship. We have climbed together ever since and when I get scared or start whimpering on a run-out section she just yells as me "Oh you stupid cow, just SHUT UP AND CLIMB!!!"
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seagypsy
Apr 15, 2005, 12:33 AM
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Hey that was not my "to-be BF", that was Mr. Wanna-Be-Climber-Gigalo-Ho-Bag-Sociopath. My "to-be BF" was the OTHER guy, you know the really swell one who invited us to Mexico and wanted you to move in with him. He was going to live in a schoolbus, be a daytrader and he made us pay for his dinner when we were flat broke...hey wait that was the same dude. OMG Ultramegaclassic: "Shut up and Climb" (I am sooo glad that I met you!!!!!)
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bad_lil_kitty
Apr 18, 2005, 2:19 AM
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In reply to: clippity clip clip chop chop.... So, FINALLY, my questions: What did you do when you were a beginner like me? What did you go out and climb in your early days when your technical climbing skills were still developing? How long did it take you to reach the point you're at now and how did you get there? Thanks.
So before I moved back to the East Coast, I had only climbed TR a handful of times (literally like 3x or so) within a gym; outside, nill at this point. Last year I picked up climbing (August) by starting out in the gym, again. 2 months later, I went outdoors for the 'first time' at Joshua Tree. At this point in the game, I'm 30, little experience indoors and none-out...
My first tradclimb - SailAway (you can see in my profile a pic of moi) -- 5.7? 5.8? I dunno, but it was damn fun and I climbed well. I bouldered a bunch of V0s-V1s during this 4 day trip as well.
Now? Hm, I went to my first come last month as a beginner - got bumped up to intermediate and ranked in the top 20... I am not even a big fan of bouldering. How did I train and/or prepare --- I didn't at all. I just did it for shits and giggles plus a gal friend of mine wanted someone to climb from our crew. Now sending up to some (some I say) v2s-v3s.
Tradclimbs - upped to 5.9 (current).
Indoors - 5.10s; lol and v0s sometimes if I am lucky a v1 --- I hate bouldering indoors.
Everyone's different. As with many facets in life --- don't compare yourself --- you'll drive yourself nuts trying to keep up ---- or burn yourself if you "fall short" of someone else's sends/topouts...whatever you want to call it.
I do well at most things I involve myself if I am really interested about the matter at hand. That said, we're all good at things, we're all bad at things.. but, we all shit, piss, eat, sleep, breath, and so forth... My point...hang in there and keep climbing --- but above all else, love thyself and be good unto yourself....cause in the end, you really are all that you've got (per se)
Jen
So less then a year and all of this...
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vertk8r
Apr 18, 2005, 3:35 PM
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As the ladies above have said, tr'ing the tougher routes outdoors can really help. I am kinda at a plateau outdoors to, I am stuck in the 8-10a range when I lead climb. I try tr'ing the tougher routes after my bf has lead the route.
To make the tr experience a little more like leading I practise clipping when I am outdoors on tr, this helps me practise finding good spots to clip from, carrying that little extra weight of the draws, and finding good rest spots. Ocassionally, I find that if I tr something and practise clipping, I can hop back on that same climb later and lead it. Maybe its a psychological thing for me. Especially if the bolts are really run out.
Maybe that will help a little,
Good luck!
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winter
Apr 18, 2005, 4:10 PM
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I used to care about the grade that I could lead. I used to feel guilty for always following. Last winter I was pushing hard in the gym, leading hard 11's. Then I got injured and now I'm back to leading 9's outside.
Now, I just don't care. I'm not interested in pissing my pants. If I'm scared to lead something I just don't do it.
I could care less if other climbers put me down or cat call me to lead something I don't want to. I just don't climb with those kind of grade chaser climbers.
I climb because I like to be outside, I like the views and I like the feel of the rock. I don't care what grade it is if it's a nice climb.
I'm never going to be as good as my boyfriend or my main climbing partner. Although I could be better than my bf on sport, I could never hope to match him on long routes. I just don't have the nerve.
What I'm trying to say is, don't think about the grades of the climb, think about why you're there. Enjoy the day outside.
Leading those 10's will come, but it won't happen right away. Toprope until then, let someone else lead it til your ready. There is no shame in being a second contrary to what lots of climbers will tell you.
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nd2boostt
Apr 18, 2005, 7:25 PM
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I completely understand where you are coming from. I am lucky enough to climb at a gym with a great group of very friendly people, however, I am the only girl that climbs in the group on a regular basis. I like the fact that I climb with guys that can climb better than me though, because I tend to push myself much harder. I don't want them to be able to do something I can't do!! I have noticed (often) that the guys tend to do better on routes because they use their brute strength. I actually tease them about it alot...lol. I just try to stay focused on the things that I can use to my advantage - flexibility and technique. When it comes to very technical routes that require a lot of good footwork, balance, or flexibility, I usually do much better than them. Granted, I am trying to work on my upper body strength as much as possible so I do have a little brute strength to use when necessary :) Just keep training the areas that you are good at, but also concentrate on areas you know that you have weaknesses in. For example, I know that I am flexible, so I try to do tough, stretchy moves every oppportunity I get (hand/foot matches, stemming, etc.). I also know that I need to concentrate on using my feet alot more so I don't get pumped, so I do alot of easy routes/bouldering circuits where I stay extremely focused on putting all of my weight on my feet.
Just plan out what you're going to do before you get to the gym so that you have goals in mind. Tell yourself "today, I'm going to work on footwork/speed/matching hands/etc". The better your all-around technique, the better climber you will be! Keep at it, and remember to be patient!! Things don't happen overnight.
On thing I must add - I have been doing hanging leg-raises from a hangboard for the past three or so months. I do a couple sets of them everytime I'm at the gym. I cannot even tell you how much this has helped me (especially on overhangs!!!). If I'm on an overhang and my foot slips, I can easily bring my feet back to the wall without thrashing everywhere and wasting precious arm strength!!
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ecocliffchick
Apr 19, 2005, 5:48 PM
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If you want to lead in Ontario - you may be stuck with only one or two routes at a crag that are at your comfort level. However, you could always roadtrip to the Red or the New where there are more bolted 5.8's and 5.9's.
As for a first lead in Ontario - try Live Bait (5.10) at Nemo. If you can get through the crux move (off the ground) it is well bolted above. If you can't get through the low crux, you haven't lost any gear!
I would not recommend Wide Load as a good lead early on. Even though it is easier (5.9), there is the potential for ground fall for the first three bolts if you fall clipping. I have witnessed on two separate occaisons people hitting the ground while clipping.
Have fun this season - climb one for me (I fell bouldering at the gym and now I can barely walk, let alone climb!)
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jt512
Apr 19, 2005, 6:30 PM
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In reply to: If you want to lead in Ontario - you may be stuck with only one or two routes at a crag that are at your comfort level.
Leading at your comfort level? Seriously, if you want psychological comfort, then what is the point of leading at all? You might as well just toprope. The distinction between leading and following is that leading you are taking risk; that is, you are voluntarily leaving your comfort zone.
-Jay
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ecocliffchick
Apr 19, 2005, 8:44 PM
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Okay, comfort level may have been the wrong terminology.
What I meant to say was: If you want to lead in Ontario - and not be stuck leaving 'biners on every climb - you may be stuck with only one or two routes at a crag that are at your level.
Check the routes database for Ontario. The ones that have been posted are typically the classic routes at the crag, and usually include the easiest sport offerings.
jt512- I would still argue that for a first lead outside, picking something more 'comfortable' (i.e. well bolted and within her difficulty range) would probably be a good idea.
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jt512
Apr 19, 2005, 8:48 PM
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In reply to: jt512- I would still argue that for a first lead outside, picking something more 'comfortable' (i.e. well bolted and within her difficulty range) would probably be a good idea.
Of course. I took your comments out of context.
-Jay
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