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chouca
May 2, 2005, 6:20 PM
Post #26 of 42
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Registered: Feb 12, 2003
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"I can tell you, as a mexican AND a climber, that Mexico is not more dangerous than any other place if you have true traveling skills."
If you have to have "true traveling skills" not to get into trouble, there are some obvious dangers not as profound as you find in places like Europe or most of the USA. We have our own share of crime in the USA, and I'm not going to point fingers. But if you need to walk on cultural eggshells of constant vigilance in a country to avoid being assaulted or robbed, it's not that safe.
I'll still travel to Mexico with my poorly conjugated Spanish and increasing awareness of local customs (I learn more each visit), but I'll do so at my own risk. I lived in my car for years climbing and traveling in the US and Canada, and had a very few encounters with the occasional highwaymen (usually at rest areas). There is a much greater problem with roving bands of thieves in the Mexican countryside than you encounter here in the US.
The locals in EVERY part of Mexico warned me of this, telling me that tourists from the US and Europe are targeted. They knew that this was not something we dealt with in the USA and did not want us to be caught off guard. Each place you visit has it's good and bad qualities. Mexico has so many things in the plus category to offset it's minuses. Let's just not ignore some of the downsides.
Best wishes on a speedy recovery,
Marc B.
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chouca
May 2, 2005, 6:22 PM
Post #27 of 42
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Registered: Feb 12, 2003
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"I can tell you, as a mexican AND a climber, that Mexico is not more dangerous than any other place if you have true traveling skills."
If you have to have "true traveling skills" not to get into trouble, there are some obvious dangers not as profound as you find in places like Europe or most of the USA. We have our own share of crime in the USA, and I'm not going to point fingers. But if you need to walk on cultural eggshells of constant vigilance in a country to avoid being assaulted or robbed, it's not that safe.
I'll still travel to Mexico with my poorly conjugated Spanish and increasing awareness of local customs (I learn more each visit), but I'll do so at my own risk. I lived in my car for years climbing and traveling in the US and Canada, and had a very few encounters with the occasional highwaymen (usually at rest areas). There is a much greater problem with roving bands of thieves in the Mexican countryside than you encounter here in the US.
The locals in EVERY part of Mexico warned me of this, telling me that tourists from the US and Europe are targeted. They knew that this was not something we dealt with in the USA and did not want us to be caught off guard. Each place you visit has it's good and bad qualities. Mexico has so many things in the plus category to offset it's minuses. Let's just not ignore some of the downsides.
Best wishes on a speedy recovery,
Marc B.
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chouca
May 2, 2005, 6:23 PM
Post #28 of 42
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Registered: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 149
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"I can tell you, as a mexican AND a climber, that Mexico is not more dangerous than any other place if you have true traveling skills."
If you have to have "true traveling skills" not to get into trouble, there are some obvious dangers not as profound as you find in places like Europe or most of the USA. We have our own share of crime in the USA, and I'm not going to point fingers. But if you need to walk on cultural eggshells of constant vigilance in a country to avoid being assaulted or robbed, it's not that safe.
I'll still travel to Mexico with my poorly conjugated Spanish and increasing awareness of local customs (I learn more each visit), but I'll do so at my own risk. I lived in my car for years climbing and traveling in the US and Canada, and had a very few encounters with the occasional highwaymen (usually at rest areas). There is a much greater problem with roving bands of thieves in the Mexican countryside than you encounter here in the US.
The locals in EVERY part of Mexico warned me of this, telling me that tourists from the US and Europe are targeted. They knew that this was not something we dealt with in the USA and did not want us to be caught off guard. Each place you visit has it's good and bad qualities. Mexico has so many things in the plus category to offset it's minuses. Let's just not ignore some of the downsides.
Best wishes on a speedy recovery,
Marc B.
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joseph_y
May 3, 2005, 6:32 AM
Post #29 of 42
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Registered: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 10
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There have been several valid points made through this post, even if the original post has gone off topic. I make my living protecting execs. and celebs. all over the world I've worked in north and central America, Europe, Asia, and Africa. You never need to walk around on egg shells but you do need to do your homework. Mexico is dangerous so is Europe if you do the wrong things in the wrong areas the same goes for every other country including the US. Anytime you travel here or abroad you should try to learn as much about the customs and culture of your destination as you can. Try to learn a few phrase in there language try to make some notes on things that might be significant to them as far as holidays or the other side of the coin anniversaries of terror attacks. Plan ahead and be sitiuationally aware think about what you would do if something went wrong. There are several websites that can make your travels safer. Feel free to send me a private message if you have questions about a location. Remember people will judge your entire country based on the few people they come into contact from that country. Rather your from the US or somewhere else these little things can save you allot of trouble.
Cheers
Joseph
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mcumbrae
May 3, 2005, 6:12 PM
Post #30 of 42
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Registered: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 89
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In reply to: I'll do so at my own risk
That pretty much says it all. At the end traveling is about taking chances. If taking chances makes a person paranoid, then they should not be traveling in the first place :roll:
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unabonger
May 3, 2005, 8:57 PM
Post #31 of 42
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Registered: Aug 8, 2003
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In reply to: I´m not, i swear... but sometimes i get pissed off when people put tags on us mexicans
As does everyone, so let's not speak of each other in general terms but rather as one human to other humans with all our frailty and strength also. There are myths about everyone's country, some are true, some are not, some are greatly exaggerated.
This isn't myth: http://www.cnn.com/...dnappings/index.html
Prudence and awareness of local customs is a good thing but it is never enough. Current conditions on the US/Mexican border are in fact more dangerous than in times past.
This is from the US Department of State:
In reply to: PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Office of the Spokesman This information is current as of today, Tue May 03 2005 16:55:39 GMT-0400 (Eastern Standard Time). Mexico April 26, 2005 This Public Announcement is to alert U.S. citizens to the continuing unsettled public security situation along the Mexican side of the U.S.-Mexico border. This Public Announcement supercedes the Public Announcement of January 26, 2005 to update the information provided. It expires on July 29, 2005. Violent criminal activity fueled by a war between criminal organizations struggling for control of the lucrative narcotics trade continues along the U.S.-Mexico border. This has resulted in a wave of violence aimed primarily at members of drug trafficking organizations, criminal justice officials and journalists. However, foreign visitors and residents, including Americans, have been among the victims of homicides and kidnappings in the border region. A power vacuum within criminal organizations resulting from the imprisonment of several of their leaders along the Mexico-U.S. border continues to contribute to a deterioration of public safety in the region. In recent months, the worst violence has been centered in the city of Nuevo Laredo in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, where more than 30 U.S. citizens have been kidnapped and/or murdered in the past eight months and public shootouts have occurred during daylight hours near frequented shopping areas and on streets leading to the international bridges. One of the shootouts spilled onto the Mexican side of the bridge itself. Four police officers have been killed in Nuevo Laredo since March. Mexico's police forces suffer from lack of funds and training, and the judicial system is weak, overworked, and inefficient. Criminals, armed with an impressive array of weapons, know there is little chance they will be caught and punished. In some cases, assailants have been wearing full or partial police uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles, indicating some elements of the police might be involved. U.S. citizens are urged to be especially aware of safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. While the overwhelming majority of victims of these crimes are Mexican citizens, U.S. citizens nonetheless should be aware of the risk posed by this uncertain security situation. The vast majority of the thousands of U.S. citizens who cross the border each day do so safely, exercising common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas of border towns during daylight hours. It is strongly recommended that red-light districts and neighborhoods where street drug dealing occurs be avoided. U.S. citizens who are victims of crime in the border region are urged to contact the Consular Section of the nearest U.S. consulate for advice and assistance. The following is contact information for the five U.S. border consulates or consulate generals: The U.S. Consulate General in Tijuana, which covers the states of Baja California Norte and Baja California Sur, is located at Ave. Tapachula 96, Colonia Hipódromo. The Consulate General's telephone number is (52)(664) 622-7400, the fax for the office of American Citizen Services is (664) 686-1168, and the Consulate General's web address is http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/tijuana/Teacs.htm. The U.S. Consulate in Nogales, which covers northern Sonora, is located at Calle San Jose, Fraccionamiento Los Alamos. The Consulate's telephone number is (52)(631) 313-4820, the fax for the Consulate is (52) (631) 313-46-52, the e-mail address for the Consulate is nogales7@prodigy.net.mx and the Consulate's web address is http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/nogales/NE_Introduction.htm. The U.S. Consulate General in Ciudad Juárez, which covers the state of Chihuahua, is located at Avenida Lopez Mateos 924 Norte. The Consulate General's telephone number is (52)(656) 611-3000, the fax for the Consulate General is (656) 616-9056, the e-mail address for the Consulate General's Office of American Citizen Services is cdjamericancitizens@state.gov, and the Consulate General's web address is http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/mx2/wwwhmain.html. The U.S. Consulate in Nuevo Laredo, which covers northern Coahuila and northwestern Tamaulipas states, is located at Calle Allende 3330, Colonia Jardin. The Consulate's telephone number is (52)(867) 714-0512, the e-mail address for the Consulate's Office of American Citizen Services is NuevoLaredo-ACS@state.gov, and the Consulate's web address is http://nuevolaredo.usconsulate.gov/nuevolaredo/index.html. The U.S. Consulate in Matamoros, which covers eastern and southern Tamaulipas state, is located at Calle Primera #2002, Colonia Jardin. The Consulate's telephone number is (52)(868) 812-4402, the fax for the Consulate is (868) 812-2171, and the Consulate's web address is http://matamoros.usconsulate.gov/. Americans living or traveling in Mexico are encouraged to register with the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate through the State Department's travel registration website, https://travelregistration.state.gov, and to obtain updated information on travel and security within Mexico. Americans without Internet access may register directly with the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate. By registering, American citizens make it easier for the Embassy or Consulate to contact them in case of emergency. Updated information on travel and security for Mexico may be obtained from the Department of State by calling 1-888-407-4747 within the U.S., or from overseas, 1-202-501-4444. U.S. citizens should consult the Consular Information Sheet for Mexico, the Worldwide Caution Public Announcement, and the travel publication A Safe Trip Abroad, all of which are available on the State Department's Internet site at http://travel.state.gov. |
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bvb
May 3, 2005, 9:50 PM
Post #32 of 42
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Registered: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 954
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In reply to: I´ve read my share of cr@p in this post ("to say you don't have to be really, really heads-up in mexico is crazy")
sorry you feel it's "crap", bro, but i'm going to have to stand by what i know from personal experience. i will, however, hone it with some extra particulars:
the many, many hundreds of days i spent in mexico were all in baja california, between 1976 - 1980.
we were there strictly to climb, and were primarily in very rural areas of northern and central baja, including occasional forays into the coastal areas.
we knew all the tricks of the trade for travelling in foreign countries, particularly south and central america, so please don't assume we were "ugly americans", cutting a wide swath and "flashing lots of cash, etc etc." you write about stereotypes, but you seem to suffer from stereotyping as much as any of us.
you do need to be heads up in mexico. it's a simple fact. you also need to be heads-up in a lot of neighborhoods in boston or new york. it's not about stereotyping -- it's about reading the "vibe" of a situation, regardless of where you are in the world, and acting accordingly.
a final note -- a lot of the ranchers i met in northern baja were some of the coolest people i've ever hung with.
one more note: maybe this thread should get split so that people who want to compare notes on international travel don't have to do it in a thread devoted to wishing paul a speedy and complete recovery.
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mcumbrae
May 4, 2005, 4:13 AM
Post #33 of 42
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Registered: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 89
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"be really, really heads up or you´re crazy" does sound a little bit in the paranoid side to me, here or anywhere. Sure, awareness is a must wherever you go, but there´s no need to exaggerate. I could also look for a note in some mexican news site that warns latin people about the increasing number of racist attacks in southern US states and post it here, but pointing fingers will not take us anywhere.
It´s not like i´m getting paid to draw tourists or anything, but really... there´s a lot to be enjoyed here and it would be a shame to miss it because of some bad incidents that, while unfortunate, are statistically insignificant. I only wish the USA offered tourism the same courtesy other countries do. For instance, the paperwork to get a travel permit there is ridiculous (not finger pointing... truly wishing, because you have very much to share too).
I think that some claims about the insecurity here are quite hypocritical... I don´t think you will quit coming here despite the harsh words... or will ya?
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Deleted
May 4, 2005, 4:36 AM
Post #34 of 42
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In reply to: one more note: maybe this thread should get split so that people who want to compare notes on international travel don't have to do it in a thread devoted to wishing paul a speedy and complete recovery. |
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May 12, 2005, 7:22 PM
Post #35 of 42
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Quick update: It is sounds like Paul is doing better and will probly be flying to Tulsa, OK sometime next week to begin therapy.
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highangle
May 12, 2005, 11:56 PM
Post #36 of 42
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Registered: Jun 16, 2004
Posts: 151
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Great news. Hope for a positive and successful recovery.
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seraphless
Sep 13, 2005, 3:31 AM
Post #37 of 42
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Registered: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 35
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You guys are assholes. This topic was posted to encourage recovery to a fellow climber whos life is uncertain at the moment, and all you can do is bitch about whether or not Mexico is safe? No offense to anyone but grow up.
He is in my prayers.
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seraphless
Sep 13, 2005, 3:32 AM
Post #38 of 42
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Registered: Jul 20, 2005
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You guys are assholes. This topic was posted to encourage recovery to a fellow climber whos life is uncertain at the moment, and all you can do is bitch about whether or not Mexico is safe? No offense to anyone but grow up.
He is in my prayers.
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seraphless
Sep 13, 2005, 3:33 AM
Post #39 of 42
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Registered: Jul 20, 2005
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You guys are assholes. This topic was posted to encourage recovery to a fellow climber whos life is uncertain at the moment, and all you can do is bitch about whether or not Mexico is safe? No offense to anyone but grow up.
He is in my prayers.
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seraphless
Sep 13, 2005, 3:43 AM
Post #40 of 42
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In reply to: Quick update: It is sounds like Paul is doing better and will probly be flying to Tulsa, OK sometime next week to begin therapy.
Wonderful!!
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Sep 13, 2005, 3:21 PM
Post #41 of 42
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In reply to: In reply to: Quick update: It is sounds like Paul is doing better and will probly be flying to Tulsa, OK sometime next week to begin therapy. Wonderful!! |
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tychojoe
Jan 5, 2006, 7:29 AM
Post #42 of 42
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Registered: Jan 5, 2006
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I met Paul and Karen in El Potrero and they were kind enough to teach me a few things about rockclimbing. I was on a motorcycle roadtrip through Canada, the US, and Mexico, which brought me to Guanajuato, on their recommendation (where Paul and Karen were studying spanish). I heard about their tragedy and stopped by the hospital to see Paul in San Luis Potosi on my way back to Potrero. Considering what had happend to him, he looked really good and Karen was in high spirits. Both of them introduced me to rockclimbing in Mexico and I had a wonderful experience there. I never ran into any trouble the entire time I was in Mexico, (and neither the US or Canada for that matter) even though I took the same route that they did, and I was alone on a motorcycle the whole time. This thing that happened could really have happened anywhere. You just have to watch out in any situation where you're unfamiliar. Mexico is an awsome place to climb.
Good luck Paul in your recovery!
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