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corpse
May 20, 2005, 2:22 AM
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Well, a fall on that terrain from height, could certainly result in death.. If you tumble backwards and start to roll, it could have some bad effects... However, I know that I would take my kids on such terrain. As for the height I would go, I don't know. But I'm sure that it would be high enough to result in some major injury if we fell.. And it looks like mom is doing a good job of spotting her in that pic... If the girl slipped, it's reasonable to think the mom can help. Given the drama-king that hte dad seems to be, I'm sure he took a picture of the "rough terrain", with the easier climbinger before/after this pic.
I still think we all got bit by the biggest troll in rc.com history though. I think it was all staged to draw more traffic to his site, to support his way. He had (himself), friends, family, whatever, join in on the action. "Thats my story, and I'm stickin to it" hehe
It's the insane people you have to worry about, its the sane ones..
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erawtica
May 20, 2005, 2:35 AM
Post #227 of 315
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In reply to: I still think we all got bit by the biggest troll in rc.com history though. I think it was all staged to draw more traffic to his site, to support his way. He had (himself), friends, family, whatever, join in on the action. "Thats my story, and I'm stickin to it" hehe
Yeah, that's exactly what it is ~ a story you've just made up. You don't even know if Storm was aware of this site until this whole bs started.
erawtica
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rockitjeff
May 20, 2005, 3:03 AM
Post #228 of 315
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What I liked the most about the thread is when BVB wrote Storm
"i am a "famous" climber (lots of climbing and rock and ice magazine covers, free ascents of el cap, blah blah blah ..... in addition to being a name-brand climber, i'm a .. ranger .. yadda yadda "
yep. can't pick up a mag without seeing that guy's grill on the cover. or read his latest free ascent of what? El Nino? ... Lurking Fear? Maybe El Corazon?
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cliffhunger
May 20, 2005, 3:03 AM
Post #229 of 315
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I read the whole thread, phew...
(take a breath, long post again)
First, I'd like to clarify that the climbing community and RC.com are two very different things. The climbing community is mostly tolerant, open-minded and passionnate, with usually a good dose of common sense, things that prevent shit from spewing like it has in this thread.
RC.com is an internet website, arguably the place people looking for "rock climbing" on google end up at, plus a huge set of people who can sum their social skills in two words: internet and chat.
Then, a few actual climbers.
This topic was originally posted by someone who obviously had no idea how poor a means of communication the internet is.
"I have been reminded" says he, well your warning might have been at the cost of a family's well being.
Most of the people posting here view free soloing as dangerous because they absolutely have no idea what it is.
The free-solo debate could rage on and on, point is, people who haven't tried it shoud shut the fuck up, because they can not possibly begin to evaluate what the "risks" are. They aren't better off than non-climbers thinking falling on a roped climb will kill you (and believe me, lots of people do).
Someone who has free soloed should easily imagine that in the case of the photos & story debated here, it is very possible that Raven had zero chance of falling.
Then there are those who still view danger in this story because they have determined Storm to be manipulative, etc, and want to bring the cops on him using an obviously routine scramble as an excuse.
Puh-lease.
Being a self-professed spiritual ignorant, I did meet and read about lots of different questionnable characters (gurus, "enlightened ones", etc etc).
Have some common sense. It ain't the case here, obviously.
I mean, people jump on the guru bandwagon as soon as a cheezy quote about life or hippyesque or non-scientific terminology is used.
Get some proper communication skills and try to meet people instead of interpreting a few words on the internet and passing them through your own fears of being manipulated or corrupted. Strenghten yourself a bit mentally before you point fingers at others who obviously put more effort into it than you have.
Pressure? Coercion? Pfff. I didn't feel any while I was reading their article.
Now. About the article, which is mostly the only piece of information we have.
A point has been brought up by fiend a couple of times about the actual lack of information.
I shall further it with the fact that the common climbing lingo wasn't present, and that part of this family's belief system is shown through the article (which was the point).
There is hardly enough information to judge wether or not the situation was dangerous from ANYONE's point of view, although half the people here laughed at the very notion of danger being displayed there.
The fact that it was written by someone who is not talking about rock climbing and not talking rock climbing language only furthers the misunderstanding: people start to discedit and think that because someone doesn't talk like them, they cannot fathom the concept of safety while climbing, solo or not.
To those people, please realise that you aren't better because you read about climbing in a book and practiced a few times outside to the point that you talk the talk and walk the walk. Pathetic.
To Storm, Jinjee and your wonderful kids:
All of this sums up to one important thing. Using this story to convey information about your way of life didn't work well and could've had serious consequences for your family (and I'm not talking about falling).
It might be a powerful way to show a point in your belief system, but it most likely will be misinterpreted, as this thread has shown.
Even though you know through experience that mental challenges (on the rock or elsewhere) have good outcomes and are understood in a healthy way by the people who have gone through them (because their were under guidance), you have to see that what you will show on the net or on a dvd is very little compared to what the experience acutally is.
The remaining images and words conveyed to the audiance weren't enough to correctly represent the experience for a group of people (climbers) who are the closest to actually having a chance to grasp its true meaning.
You might have to weight in if using such media on your website or DVD will provoke an even worse response from non-climbers, however well presented it may be in the future.
I am glad to see you have put an extended disclaimer on the article, but I fear that it might not be enough, since you can't really convey the information properly on this poor media that is the internet. Don't have overconfidence in the state of the average american's common sense, I think more of them teach their kids how to use guns than teach them how to enjoy a day in the mountains.
That aside, had I had kids of my own, I would certainly take them scrambling, climbing and exploring, and discuss the mental aspects of it with them; I would also offer the few words of advise I can as a seasoned climber about difficult free soloing, and try to instill some common sense into them so they wouldn't make stupid decisions about it.
Like you most probably did.
Keep up the lovin' environment, and only good will come out of it in the end, it's that simple...
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cliffhunger
May 20, 2005, 3:59 AM
Post #230 of 315
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One final thought.
Most of the reaction against your article came from looking at the pictures, and associating the climb to something far more dangerous than it really was.
This came to because the pictures were modified.
I don't think the drama factor is necessary in such a display, and the original footage and pictures might be more than enough to send your message, and avoid a lot of misinterpretation and problems at the same time.
If most people look at the footage and think they could do it too, without any real danger, they might relate even more to what you are trying to say and at the very least, not start panicking about it.
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bvb
May 20, 2005, 4:13 AM
Post #231 of 315
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In reply to: What I liked the most about the thread is when BVB wrote Storm "i am a "famous" climber (lots of climbing and rock and ice magazine covers, free ascents of el cap, blah blah blah ..... in addition to being a name-brand climber, i'm a .. ranger .. yadda yadda " yep. can't pick up a mag without seeing that guy's grill on the cover. or read his latest free ascent of what? El Nino? ... Lurking Fear? Maybe El Corazon?
yeah, that was my favorite part to. i mean, storm is obviously such a badass mofo that i was desperate to impress him.
actually, i was simply trying to impress on him, in terms that he would understand, that i had the history, experience, background, and administrative gravitas to be a very effective advocate for him, should cps try anything odd, and that i was absolutely ready to drive to cali and take up the cause.
and as for you, young squire, i have scored the coveted trifecta of climbing magazine coverage:
--a greg epperson cover shot;
--a john sherman "contents" page feature photo;
--a brian baily two-page spread
so sukit, n00b. bow down, before the one you serve.
http://www.chromewaves.net/...johnnycashFinger.jpg
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zozo
May 20, 2005, 4:24 AM
Post #232 of 315
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Trent Reznor's looking alot like Mr. Cash these days....May he Rest in Peace.
You wired me awake
And hit me with a hand of broken nails
You tied my lead and pulled my chain
To watch my blood begin to boil
But I知 gonna break
I知 gonna break my
I知 gonna break my rusty cage and run
Too cold to start a fire
I知 burning diesel burning dinosaur bones
I値l take the river down to still water
And ride a pack of dogs
I知 gonna break
I知 gonna break my
I知 gonna break my rusty cage and run
Hits like a phillips head
Into my brain
It痴 gonna be too dark
To sleep again
Cutting my teeth on bars
And rusty chains, I知 gonna break my
Rusty cage and run
When the forest burns
Along the road
Like god痴 eyes
In my headlights
When the dogs are looking
For their bones
And it痴 raining icepicks
On your steel shore
I知 gonna break
I知 gonna break my
I知 gonna break my rusty cage and run
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corpse
May 20, 2005, 2:04 PM
Post #233 of 315
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Posts: 822
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In reply to: In reply to: I still think we all got bit by the biggest troll in rc.com history though. I think it was all staged to draw more traffic to his site, to support his way. He had (himself), friends, family, whatever, join in on the action. "Thats my story, and I'm stickin to it" hehe Yeah, that's exactly what it is ~ a story you've just made up. You don't even know if Storm was aware of this site until this whole bs started. erawtica
storm did know of this site before the thread started. Go look at it his profile, he was on this site since April 2nd, so he was well aware of this site. To me, that was him doing a little homework.
Now, you and nego or whatever, you guys joined the site in order to create and participate this thread - which even further supports my conspiracy theory :)
20,530 hits so far in this thread - thats a fair amount of exposure. How many of us actually went to his site to see what it was about? I'm sure he got at least 500 hits on his site as a result of rc.com.
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amber
May 20, 2005, 2:35 PM
Post #234 of 315
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Posts: 708
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/me bows down to bvb
/me refuses to give up meat to become a better climber, or a better person for that matter.
/me refuses to give up processed sugars - my kid would probably become seriously ill if he couldnt toast marshmallows on an open fire when we're camping.
/me agrees with corpse - we kick some serious ass when it comes to conspiracy theories. hey, maybe it's kodos!
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pmyche
May 20, 2005, 3:27 PM
Post #235 of 315
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Posts: 1160
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"if any of you would like to see a corrected photo, you can see it right now, right here.
http://the-edg.net/rotated.jpg
LMFAO..."
LMAO indeed. Why are all the trees now leaning to the right? This is hilarious... More!
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bvb
May 20, 2005, 3:46 PM
Post #236 of 315
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Posts: 954
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not a problem, pmyche. here you go, courtesy of rgold.
In reply to: The question of the tilting of the photos has now been raised multiple times. I wondered about this before posting anything and made my own corrected versions. Since the subject keeps coming up, I decided, I hope not too unwisely, to post what I have. In each case, I have aligned the left edge of the frame with a group of trees. The trees used can no longer be seen in two of the pictures because of the cropping necessitated by the rotation. I have tried to select one or more big trees, not too close to the base. Trees on a hillside may tilt out a little; this would cause the depicted angles of the pictures here to be lower than they are in reality, but I think these results are a reasonable view of the real situation. The top photograph is the lowest of the three, next highest is the lower left, and highest is the lower right. Anyone who has read my posts knows that I strongly disapprove of both the coercion of the subjects into this endeavor and the reaction to call the cops. http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=54500 |
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mcfoley
May 20, 2005, 4:42 PM
Post #237 of 315
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What a joke...that's like 3rd class.
The camera was rotated so the angle looks steep.
STUPID!!! LAME!!!
Storm is a TOOL!
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pru
May 20, 2005, 4:45 PM
Post #238 of 315
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In reply to: What a joke...that's like 3rd class. The camera was rotated so the angle looks steep. STUPID!!! LAME!!! Storm is a TOOL! |
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pda2540
May 20, 2005, 5:16 PM
Post #239 of 315
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micah - you wrote:
"Here are the statutes as they apply to Alaska Law
AS 47.17.020. Persons Required to Report.
(a) The following persons who, in the performance of their occupational duties, or with respect to (8) of this subsection, in the performance of their appointed duties, have reasonable cause to suspect that a child has suffered harm as a result of child abuse or neglect shall immediately report the harm to the nearest office of the department: "
Noting the phase "in the performance of their occupational duties . . . "
is trolling around on rc.com one of your occupational duties? I doubt firemen are supposed to troll climbing sites on the web as one of their duties. In fact, they could probably be turned in for doing so. Maybe we should call your employer to enquire. Oh wait, thats right, YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A JOB.
So how could this law possibly relate to you? I think it was written for actual professionals doing their actual job. Hopefully, they would have the judgement to know when (and when not) to intervene.
Corpse - you wrote "Well, a fall on that terrain from height, could certainly result in death"
A fall down the staircase in your home could (and many times has) also resulted in death. Can you believe we allow children, CHILDREN to climb them without any professionals around to certify and approve it? Want to start calling the police on everyone with a stairway in their home? Its a pretty long list.
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crimpandgo
May 20, 2005, 5:36 PM
Post #240 of 315
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In reply to: I read the whole thread, phew... (take a breath, long post again) First, I'd like to clarify that the climbing community and RC.com are two very different things. The climbing community is mostly tolerant, open-minded and passionnate, with usually a good dose of common sense, things that prevent s--- from spewing like it has in this thread. RC.com is an internet website, arguably the place people looking for "rock climbing" on google end up at, plus a huge set of people who can sum their social skills in two words: internet and chat. Then, a few actual climbers. This topic was originally posted by someone who obviously had no idea how poor a means of communication the internet is. "I have been reminded" says he, well your warning might have been at the cost of a family's well being. Most of the people posting here view free soloing as dangerous because they absolutely have no idea what it is.
The free-solo debate could rage on and on, point is, people who haven't tried it shoud shut the f--- up, because they can not possibly begin to evaluate what the "risks" are. They aren't better off than non-climbers thinking falling on a roped climb will kill you (and believe me, lots of people do). Someone who has free soloed should easily imagine that in the case of the photos & story debated here, it is very possible that Raven had zero chance of falling. ......... Keep up the lovin' environment, and only good will come out of it in the end, it's that simple...
I haven't free soloed and don't plan to. I can say for sure it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the Soloing is in fact DANGEROUS. All forms of soloing is DANGEROUS. I can say for sure that no article I have read from anyone that does free-soloing has ever said it WASN'T dangerous. And to make a statement that there are climbs that may have ZERO chance of falling,, Well in my opinion you are simply nieve.
If you are going to call others ignorant, then please get your facts straight. SOLOING is DANGEROUS. If you are going to participate, make sure you accept the risks and assure that you are up to the task.
People that don't solo dont think its dangerous because they dont know better. They dont solo because they KNOW it is dangerous and choose not to do it because they dont accept the risk involve.
I personally don't care if you solo, but please don't tell me to shut the F*ck up because I don't solo. I don't have to solo to understand the risks involved. Maybe you should consider what you saying before you open your trap and degrade everyone on this site. You are no better than the folks that are screaming for CPS !
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pmyche
May 20, 2005, 8:28 PM
Post #241 of 315
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Climbing is dangerous.
And you're all gonna die. No matter what kind of scaffolding you use.
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themullet
May 20, 2005, 8:55 PM
Post #242 of 315
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In reply to: Hi everyone, While I appreciate everyone's concern I want to put your mind at ease. I am not some zombie going around doing everything my husband tells me to. .... . I know a lot of the climbers on here are emailing with Storm and getting into heated discussions and some are getting angered and have actually said that they are calling Child Protective Services right away. One thing I can almost assure you is that if my children are taken by CPS and placed in a foster home they will very likely become seriously ill. They have never had sugar, food with chemicals, processed food, packaged food, junk food, sodas, candy, dairy products, or meat of any kind including chicken or fish. Do any of you really think that our children would be better off in a foster home? Peace, Jinjee
The problem as I see it was not only the photos, it was the narrative that went along with them. In that narrative, it was clear that you were indeed a zombie. That is one of the main reasons why I called CPS.
And I think my concerns about your state are only solidified by your statement above. The very first thing you mention in relation to your kids being removed for their safety is the food your kids are going to get while not in your "care" and how it will make them sick. The food? This is insane. If my kids were in threat of being taken away, I would be making arguments about how the separation from thier parents is going to be devasting, that we do love them, okay maybe we made an error in judgement, sorry, anything to not take the kids away. Your first concern is that they are going to eat non-vegan food. Do you see how skewed your world is? This whole thing consumes your life (evidently). It is quite clear that you are a zombie. If anything, maybe this is a wake-up call for you, but I doubt you or your husband will see that.
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ricardol
May 20, 2005, 9:24 PM
Post #243 of 315
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Posts: 1050
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damm ..
.. this is why some people should not be allowed to breed
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themullet
May 20, 2005, 9:43 PM
Post #244 of 315
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interesting that Storm edited Jinjee's dialouge and has removed the refernece to that day being a good day to die
Also interesting is that this image
http://www.thegardendiet.com/images/climb/rmt5.jpg
has not been rotated, 4th class or not, the next move is a big one for a person of such small stature; a fall would have had dire consequences...all in the name of a stupid film that is going nowhere...just watch the trailer at thie site, you'll understand
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elvislegs
May 20, 2005, 10:15 PM
Post #247 of 315
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...
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wingnut
May 20, 2005, 10:35 PM
Post #248 of 315
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:o :D
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themullet
May 20, 2005, 11:06 PM
Post #249 of 315
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Yes; but that is not my thread.
I came here topost since most on this site appear to enjoy debate on this topic and feel prett passionate about the behaviours that were portrayed on the vegan site. Not too much in the way of discourse on my "home site" so I though I would join into the fray over here.
Belive me, I called CPS, pretty sure I was the first one to do so.
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erawtica
May 21, 2005, 12:46 AM
Post #250 of 315
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Wow! Yikes! Aren't you just the MAN now?
[quote="themullet"]In reply to: Belive me, I called CPS, pretty sure I was the first one to do so. |
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