|
|
|
|
beetleman
May 20, 2005, 10:41 PM
Post #1 of 82
(11861 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 11, 2005
Posts: 5
|
I was leading a rather reachy 5.10 sport route doing well until about 60 feet up when I lost my hold and fell. I yelled FALLING! to my partner, when my partner arrested my fall with the A.T.C. it knocked him off balance. He stumbled backwards on the rocky terrain and put both hands behind him to break his fall, unfortunately for me that meant he was no longer holding the rope. When he realised that he had now left me free falling instincts quickly took over and he grabbed for the rope but by accident he grabbed above the A.T.C. He held on as well as he could which slowed my fall. I was almost inverted when I smashed the back of my head on the opposite facing pillar 3m behind me then back to vertical just above my partner. I reached out my hand to the top of his head and stuck my knee in his back to break my fall. when we arrose from the tangled mess we had become I assesed my injurues, just a chunk of my scalp missing some scrapes and bruses nothing broken or serious. I look to my partner and see him moaning in pain. I resist beating him sensless for dropping me, and ask if he is allright. He just continues moaning. When I got closer I saw his hands were severly injured from the rope burn. Him holding on despite of the 3rd degree burns on his hands I think saved my life. He then caught a ride to the hospital with a friend and I got back on the horse and finished the climb.
My partner had 6 weeks of his factory job to recover.
That is my story, I survived a 60' fall, lost some hair but gained a story.
Moral: Never let go of the brake rope NEVER!
|
|
|
|
|
jdouble
May 20, 2005, 10:46 PM
Post #2 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 564
|
How long have you been trolling?
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
May 20, 2005, 10:47 PM
Post #3 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
One of the reasons I am a believer in the grigri. poop happens, and it's nice to have the cam as a backup in situations like yours.
|
|
|
|
|
jcpace
May 20, 2005, 10:49 PM
Post #4 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2003
Posts: 155
|
yeah, unfortuately you never know how someone will react to being jerked up like that in the case of lead fall. I've been jerked up against the rock plenty of times, but the principle of never letting go of the brake holds fast. Sorry to hear that. Rope burn like that will take a lot of time to recover, and his hands will probably never be the same.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
May 20, 2005, 10:50 PM
Post #5 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
I noticed your story doesn't really add up. Falling backward? The rope with you falling on the other end would pull forward, into the wall. Unless he was belaying backward.
And regarding falling down. how do you fall down when you're being pulled up by the falling climber? all you have to do is lock off on the brake hand, and the rope should hold you up.
Troll? Klutz belayer? You be the judge.
|
|
|
|
|
graniteboy
May 20, 2005, 10:58 PM
Post #6 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
|
Troll. Troll....TROLL......TROLL......TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL
TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL
TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL
TROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLLTROLL
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
May 20, 2005, 11:01 PM
Post #7 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
Note: this is the same poster who started the most recent microfracture thread, and that plus this one are his only two posts. That post was likewise bull shit- but we did get to flame azrockclimber to within an inch of his life, and I can't say that wasn't worthwhile.
So... just an FYI ;)
|
|
|
|
|
anson
May 20, 2005, 11:08 PM
Post #8 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 658
|
In reply to: Troll? Klutz belayer? You be the judge.
I won't pass judgement on the troll-ness, but lots of belayers sit down instinctively when someone yells 'falling' to take in a few feet of slack. In the gym that's not such a big deal, since there's usually only a few feet of slack out, but if you're far over your pro on an outdoor route, it's easy enough for a gym-conditioned belayer to forget that there is plenty of slack enough to sit down, do a somersault, and even go halfway down the access gully sometimes.
Whether it's a troll or not, I can attest to a virtually identical story coming from a friend of mine (yelled 'falling', belayer goofed up in multiple ways, ended up grabbing the wrong rope, climber inversion, head injury), so there's not really that much point if this is a troll. This sort of stuff happens. I do like the fact that in this case, the belayer-of-doom (I hope that was the last climb they did together!) acted as a crash pad for the climber. My friend was not that lucky.
-aB
|
|
|
|
|
beetleman
May 20, 2005, 11:18 PM
Post #9 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 11, 2005
Posts: 5
|
What is a Troll, you think I made this story up?
As for the actions of my belayer, falling backward or whatever, I didn't see it I was falling, I am going on what I was told by him.
Anyways, I posted it to show, that like stated above poop happens, mabye someone will learn from this mistake.
|
|
|
|
|
graniteboy
May 20, 2005, 11:30 PM
Post #10 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
|
Yah, well, then..you should quit climbing with said partner, (nay......I speak too soon)...quit climbing Altogether, as you obviously were such a poor judge of character as to climb with this bumbly peg to begin with.......
SELL YOUR GEAR.....And SEND the Proceeds to:
GRANITEBOY
P.O. Box 3051
Truckee California
96160
|
|
|
|
|
jcpace
May 21, 2005, 3:53 AM
Post #11 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2003
Posts: 155
|
yeah i think its a troll. chump.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
May 21, 2005, 4:02 AM
Post #13 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: What is a Troll, you think I made this story up?
Well...
Yes
|
|
|
|
|
zozo
May 21, 2005, 4:04 AM
Post #14 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2004
Posts: 3431
|
In reply to: Moral: Never let go of the brake rope NEVER!
Very cogent point. As a matter of fact I think I will try this the next time I go climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 21, 2005, 4:05 AM
Post #15 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: I won't pass judgement on the troll-ness, but lots of belayers sit down instinctively when someone yells 'falling' to take in a few feet of slack. In the gym that's not such a big deal, since there's usually only a few feet of slack out, but if you're far over your pro on an outdoor route, it's easy enough for a gym-conditioned belayer to forget that there is plenty of slack enough to sit down, do a somersault, and even go halfway down the access gully sometimes.
The thinking in this post is fucked up beyond all recognition.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
jcpace
May 21, 2005, 4:14 AM
Post #16 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2003
Posts: 155
|
In reply to: In reply to: I won't pass judgement on the troll-ness, but lots of belayers sit down instinctively when someone yells 'falling' to take in a few feet of slack. In the gym that's not such a big deal, since there's usually only a few feet of slack out, but if you're far over your pro on an outdoor route, it's easy enough for a gym-conditioned belayer to forget that there is plenty of slack enough to sit down, do a somersault, and even go halfway down the access gully sometimes. The thinking in this post is f--- up beyond all recognition. -Jay
I actually didn't notice that until you pointed it out. Anson, what are you talking about? Whether to take slack in or allow a little bit to slide depends on the position of the climber. If s/he is gonna deck, I'll try to jump and take in slack, but if it's a clean fall, it's good to allow a little give. That is, if you can pull it off. But I don't think I would sit.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 21, 2005, 4:28 AM
Post #17 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I won't pass judgement on the troll-ness, but lots of belayers sit down instinctively when someone yells 'falling' to take in a few feet of slack. In the gym that's not such a big deal, since there's usually only a few feet of slack out, but if you're far over your pro on an outdoor route, it's easy enough for a gym-conditioned belayer to forget that there is plenty of slack enough to sit down, do a somersault, and even go halfway down the access gully sometimes. The thinking in this post is f--- up beyond all recognition. -Jay I actually didn't notice that until you pointed it out. Anson, what are you talking about? Whether to take slack in or allow a little bit to slide depends on the position of the climber. If s/he is gonna deck, I'll try to jump and take in slack, but if it's a clean fall, it's good to allow a little give. That is, if you can pull it off. But I don't think I would sit.
I didn't have the patience dissect the post, but since you've gotten the ball rolling... If your partner is going to deck, I do not believe that you can jump and take in slack. By the time you jump, they'll have decked. You want to do the opposite: take in slack immediately, by stepping backwards, falling to your knee, dropping to your butt, while pulling out an armful of slack -- whatever you've got time to do in the split second you have in which to do it. However, in general, it is wrong to take in slack; it depends mainly on the angle of the climb. On steep routes, you want give a little jump as the leader's weight is coming onto the rope, which you allude to. Anson seems to think it's ok to sit down to take in slack in the gym but not outdoors, which is wrong; and his reason for thinking it is wrong outdoors is itself wrong. Furthermore, he seems to think that it is normal for the belayer to be positioned far enough away from the wall so that he could dragged into the wall. In other words, the post was a mess.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
May 21, 2005, 7:49 AM
Post #18 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
after catching your fall, how did he manage to fall backwards with enough force to think about getting hes hands down???
i sometimes loose balance when someone is TRing or hangdogging and forgets to yell that hell continue, but theres enough force to turn my fall into a nice slow sitting down. though getting back up can be a bitch sometimes.
but what was he doing that he fell backwards during what seems to be a fall??? did he turn hes back to the rock or what???
|
|
|
|
|
anson
May 21, 2005, 7:07 PM
Post #19 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 658
|
In reply to: Anson seems to think it's ok to sit down to take in slack in the gym but not outdoors, which is wrong; and his reason for thinking it is wrong outdoors is itself wrong. Furthermore, he seems to think that it is normal for the belayer to be positioned far enough away from the wall so that he could dragged into the wall. In other words, the post was a mess.
Jay, I'm afraid I have to take you down for this analysis. Nowhere in my post do I suggest that it is *good* that gym climbers sit down. I just point out that they do. Nor does my post talk about anyone being dragged into a wall, period.
-aB
|
|
|
|
|
anson
May 21, 2005, 7:11 PM
Post #20 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 658
|
[quote="jt512]If your partner is going to deck, I do not believe that you can jump and take in slack. By the time you jump, they'll have decked.
Jay,
Point #2: Your ability to take in slack by jumping off or running away from the cliff face is entirely dependent on the length of the fall--i.e. the runout above the last piece. Given that there have been several threads recently about 'the running belay' being standard practice in certain climbing areas, I'm afraid I have to call you on this one as well.
You're just not seeing the same scenario as I am in the original poster's description of events. Which is fine--it's hardly a detailed account of where everyone was--but to jump down my throat for trying to explain one way in which it could have happened is not terribly useful.
-aB
|
|
|
|
|
corcovado
May 21, 2005, 7:14 PM
Post #21 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2005
Posts: 17
|
In reply to: Point #2: Your ability to take in slack by jumping off or running away from the cliff face is entirely dependent on the length of the fall--i.e. the runout above the last piece.-aB
I agree with ya on this one.
|
|
|
|
|
anson
May 21, 2005, 7:21 PM
Post #22 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 658
|
In reply to: Anson, what are you talking about? Whether to take slack in or allow a little bit to slide depends on the position of the climber. If s/he is gonna deck, I'll try to jump and take in slack, but if it's a clean fall, it's good to allow a little give. That is, if you can pull it off. But I don't think I would sit.
I'm not making any recommendations or suggestions on what *should* be done, just what *might have* been done. If the fall was on a longer runout than the belayer was used to, bad belaying habits (i.e. sitting down and expecting the rope to stop the sitting process as the climber is caught) could easily cause a n00b to fall over backwards.
Someone lacking discipline could easily let go of the rope to catch their fall. At that point, the remainder of the scenario could play out as described: the climber engages the rope, and begins pulling it through the not-locked-off belay device. The belayer grabs the wrong end of the rope, and since the climber is now continuing earthwards (from 60', not at terminal velocity, I'm pretty sure this could easily take 5 seconds or more), there's more than enough energy in the system to yank the belayer off their butt and back into the rock without arresting the fall.
That's all I'm trying to point out: that the description stated by the original poster maps to a *feasible* scenario. Whether it's a troll, or a fantasy, or just a mis-remembering of a complex chain of events is best left as an exercise for the reader.
-aB
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 21, 2005, 10:33 PM
Post #23 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: Anson seems to think it's ok to sit down to take in slack in the gym but not outdoors, which is wrong; and his reason for thinking it is wrong outdoors is itself wrong. Furthermore, he seems to think that it is normal for the belayer to be positioned far enough away from the wall so that he could dragged into the wall. In other words, the post was a mess. Jay, I'm afraid I have to take you down for this analysis. Nowhere in my post do I suggest that it is *good* that gym climbers sit down. I just point out that they do. Nor does my post talk about anyone being dragged into a wall, period. -aB
You say you can "get away with" sitting down indoors, but not out, which makes no sense. Furthermore your rationale as to why you can't "get away with it" outdoors is wrong.
Your post talks about someone somersaulting forward afterward sitting to take in slack when belaying.
Your posts was a total mess.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 21, 2005, 10:36 PM
Post #24 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: If your partner is going to deck, I do not believe that you can jump and take in slack. By the time you jump, they'll have decked. Jay, Point #2: Your ability to take in slack by jumping off or running away from the cliff face is entirely dependent on the length of the fall--i.e. the runout above the last piece. Given that there have been several threads recently about 'the running belay' being standard practice in certain climbing areas, I'm afraid I have to call you on this one as well.
The fastest way to take in slack is to move backwards, not jumping. Note, you write "jump off, whereas jcpace wrote "jump."
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
dragonlii
May 25, 2005, 8:42 AM
Post #25 of 82
(11860 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 27, 2002
Posts: 18
|
I reached for a hold, found a snake sunning himself. yelled "snake". belayer thought I said "take" and pulled the rope tight, and me towards the snake. I said "no, SNAKE". belayer took off running cuse he thought I was throwing the snake down at him, pulling me closer to said snake. by then the snake had boogied, scared sh*tless. but my belayer STILL didn't let go of the rope. If your belayer got his hands burned, he deserved it for dropping you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
