|
|
|
|
kansasclimber
Aug 21, 2005, 2:31 AM
Post #1 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 541
|
I just got back from Rifle Mountain Park, and let me tell you, stick clipping is much different than I thought it was..... I thought "ya know, if there was a bad landing, or the bolt was hi up, then yeah, thats cool stick clip the first bolt.", nah, it means, go get the longest pole possible, and stick clip the third, or even 4th bolt, on a perfectly flat landing, where the first bolt is 10-15 ft. off the ground is all. Im sorry, but i just couldnt do it. I even did a 12a there which is at my limit for onsighting, right on top of a talus field, and it was basically a V4 boulder problem for the start, and I still couldnt get myself to stick clip. The style just seems wrong. But now i understand how people climb hard grades, cause they toprope half of it. welp, is it ethical, whats next, toperope sends being published in R&I and Climbing???? It is too accepted by the climbing community.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Aug 21, 2005, 2:34 AM
Post #2 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
You'll never get sponsored asking questions like this...
|
|
|
|
|
kansasclimber
Aug 21, 2005, 2:39 AM
Post #3 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 541
|
If you have to stick clip to get sponsored, then count me out for sure. I mean, it was so just automatic for the locals.... crazy
Stephen
|
|
|
|
|
e_wire
Aug 21, 2005, 2:47 AM
Post #4 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 263
|
WTF??? Sponsored??? Climbing is about climbing... not getting free stuff because you have a friggin image...
In my book, stick clip is unethical. Period. If you can't climb to the first bolt, then hell, don't climb the route.
What's next? Stick protection placing? Gaffer climbing - you go place me protection, then me (super sponsored image climber) will climb for grade and onsight!
Good or bad landing - you do the route or you don't.
No stick Sherlock.
|
|
|
|
|
kalcario
Aug 21, 2005, 2:52 AM
Post #5 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 1601
|
usually it's considered kosher to pre clip the first 2 bolts, it's pretty much the same thing as having a crash pad and spotters...but more than that and you kinda invalidated the lead. I think if preclipping the first 2 bolts invalidates the lead, then pads and spotters invalidates the boulder problem...guess I'm old school
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Aug 21, 2005, 2:59 AM
Post #6 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: WTF??? Sponsored??? Climbing is about climbing... not getting free stuff because you have a friggin image... In my book, stick clip is unethical. Period. If you can't climb to the first bolt, then hell, don't climb the route. What's next? Stick protection placing? Gaffer climbing - you go place me protection, then me (super sponsored image climber) will climb for grade and onsight! Good or bad landing - you do the route or you don't. No stick Sherlock.
http://new-jack-city.com/compcartoon.gif
:lol:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
anykineclimb
Aug 21, 2005, 3:14 AM
Post #8 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 3593
|
The worst I've seen with stick clipping (which, in of itself isn't that bad...) was a girl at Shelf CLIMBING with a stick hanging off her harness!!! The damn thing was dangling 6ft below her! I'm too sure if she thought of the consequenses of falling.
Then again, if you're toproping all the way up..
|
|
|
|
|
spikeyhair13
Aug 21, 2005, 3:17 AM
Post #9 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 206
|
I dont like them either. I was at the international climbers festival in lander wyoming this year and I got asked to use a stick clip 3-4 times. There were these 2 guys who had 5 of them and were handing them out to use at this local crag. And it was getting rediculous. Throughout all the places I have been I havent found a route that I needed one on.
|
|
|
|
|
schnoz
Aug 21, 2005, 3:21 AM
Post #10 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 20, 2003
Posts: 83
|
Who cares? Just do your own thing.
I've always thought stick clipping was for preventing a potentially nasty ground fall or really high first bolt (which, of course means your pole is -never- long enough), but that's just how I do it.
If others want to top rope most of the route on a single draw just so they can spray, let them.
|
|
|
|
|
d1ll1gaf
Aug 21, 2005, 3:48 AM
Post #11 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 119
|
I don't think that the act of stick clipping it self can be considered unethical or in bad style. If a person where to stick clip every bolt on a climb and claim that they top-roped it, they have not committed any ethical or style faux pas. If using a stick clip makes climbing more enjoyable to a person because they don't need to worry about injuries and not spraying about there climbs, then go for it.
However, using a stick clip and claiming an onsight or red-point is another story. In this case I think it depends upon the nature of the fall. If a fall before the 1st or 2nd bolt would likely result in injury, then the send with the stick-clip is legitimate. If there is a minimal chance of a fall resulting in an injury, then the send is questionable.
|
|
|
|
|
dlintz
Aug 21, 2005, 3:49 AM
Post #12 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 9, 2002
Posts: 1982
|
In reply to: WTF??? Sponsored??? Climbing is about climbing... not getting free stuff because you have a friggin image... In my book, stick clip is unethical. Period. If you can't climb to the first bolt, then hell, don't climb the route. What's next? Stick protection placing? Gaffer climbing - you go place me protection, then me (super sponsored image climber) will climb for grade and onsight! Good or bad landing - you do the route or you don't. No stick Sherlock.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with stickclipping the first bolt. Hell, it's sport climbing which IMHO...again IMHO makes the whole "style" question a little suspect. I'm not saying I'm above clipping bolts, quite the opposite. If I'm gonna clip 'em I don't see anything wrong with how I clip 'em including preplaced draws and the like. Stickclipping more than the first bolt just seems goofy to me rather than bad style.
d.
|
|
|
|
|
andrewbanandrew
Aug 21, 2005, 4:11 AM
Post #13 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 441
|
You know you're climbing for the wrong reasons if you have to ask these sorts of questions. Who cares. Climbing is climbing, set your ego aside.
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Aug 21, 2005, 10:40 AM
Post #14 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
Stick clipping is a good shoulder muscles training. You also learn to keep your balance by smoothly move your muscles in order to clip something high with a thin stick that always move in the wrong direction.
You can also put an american flag on the stick and put it in the front yard for the 4th of July.
It's all a matter of personal feeling. I long only toproped and considered it a valid form of climbing. I don't anymore, it's just a warm up or a sporty thing to me. Leading is THE form for me, though I can still use preplace draws... Well, do it as you want...
|
|
|
|
|
shear
Aug 21, 2005, 11:37 AM
Post #15 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 15, 2004
Posts: 350
|
a lot of routes are designed to be stick clipped...the first bolt is put high enough so that it can be pre-clipped and the climber will be safe if they blow the second clip. go to RUMNEY, a lot of routes there are like this, the guidebook even tells you the routes that are bolted in this way as well.
|
|
|
|
|
moss1956
Aug 21, 2005, 11:52 AM
Post #16 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2002
Posts: 213
|
OK, I'll take the bait.
I routinely stick clip the first bolt, unless it looks like blowing the second bolt is a ground fall, at which point I stick clip the second bolt.
If there is a higher bolt where you could deck onto a ledge, I find a different climb.
I really love sport climbing. It makes me feel good when I am doing it.
Come to think of it, it makes me feel good after I have done it too.
If I don't break my ankle I get to do it more.
People climb for different reasons. If the reward you get is lessened so greatly by clipping the first bolt, by all means, don't clip it.
If what you really get off on is spraying, I guess thats what forums like this are about. Enjoy!
|
|
|
|
|
backclipped
Aug 21, 2005, 11:57 AM
Post #17 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2005
Posts: 137
|
Grab a mirror, look directly into your eyes and ask, "Do I really give a shit?" What do you care what the guy next to you is doing. I'd rather be surrounded by stick clips so I wouldn't have to deal with someones broken ankles.
Sport climbing and ethics/style????? whatever.
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Aug 21, 2005, 11:58 AM
Post #18 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
I just think of some urban areas where the first bolt is high so it's not damaged by non climbers. The stick clip is so necessary. I've no tangible proof of what I say, but I'm sure I've heard that once or twice in my 10 yr climbing career.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Aug 21, 2005, 12:12 PM
Post #19 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
i never stick clip. mainly because i dont have one :P
anyway, i sometimes will preclip the first draw by other means if theres a nasty crux before the clip and it has bad landing. but thats about it.
|
|
|
|
|
shanz
Aug 21, 2005, 12:13 PM
Post #20 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2004
Posts: 702
|
In reply to: Grab a mirror, look directly into your eyes and ask, "Do I really give a s---?" What do you care what the guy next to you is doing. I'd rather be surrounded by stick clips so I wouldn't have to deal with someones broken ankles. Sport climbing and ethics/style????? whatever.
damn right Climb to climb its about you and the rock not how you view another climber or how he views you.
Of course my clip was a concert curtain clamp on a painter pole now all i use it for is to get a good pump while im at work
|
|
|
|
|
icarus_burned
Aug 21, 2005, 5:03 PM
Post #21 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 16, 2004
Posts: 281
|
bump for reference purposes
|
|
|
|
|
bler
Aug 21, 2005, 6:29 PM
Post #22 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 22, 2004
Posts: 302
|
you know, if you don't sit down start every climb, its not really considered a send...
|
|
|
|
|
395climber
Aug 22, 2005, 4:30 PM
Post #23 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 19, 2005
Posts: 5
|
yeah, one climbs a route that someone else has done first, and that person left a bunch of big, shiny bolts behind....and there is a concern about style and ethics?
Go have fun and enjoy your climbing. Sport climbing is about extremely safe, highly difficult (for the individual) gymnastic movements. If the stick clip makes a lot of people feel safer, there is no earthly reason not to use it. If that diminishes the "score" for that route, well, I'm not sure where to go to register the deductions.
Regarding climbing with a stick clip on your harness - I have seen this done using a collapsible-tent-pole stick clip. Comes in quite handy for a leader trying to complete a route that is near or above the limit of his abilities - if he gets stuck at a certain move, the stick can be used to make progress to the rest of the route, or to toprope/aid to the anchors so he can bail without leaving gear behind. Not something I'm likely to do myself, but I've got no reason to look down on the practice.
|
|
|
|
|
gunked
Aug 22, 2005, 5:06 PM
Post #24 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 615
|
In reply to: Who cares? Just do your own thing.
:righton:
-Jason :D
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Aug 22, 2005, 5:15 PM
Post #25 of 141
(10898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
Breaking both legs in a ground fall is VERY POOR STYLE.
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
