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jinx
Sep 18, 2005, 8:28 PM
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It's another case of the "Scout Master" not teaching or watching his or her troop... We had a "Boy Scout" get lost last week here in Arkansas, Mountain Biking... He was found, luckily :!: , only one adult with 20 boys... Parents of these kids, should get a little more involved :( !!!
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lilclimber18
Sep 18, 2005, 8:47 PM
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is it just me, or has there been a WHOLE LOT of cases recently w/ lost boy scouts?
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oldrnotboldr
Sep 18, 2005, 8:49 PM
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In reply to: It's another case of the "Scout Master" not teaching or watching his or her troop
Granted a person cannot be everywhere all the time, but it is their responsibility to aware of each kid and what that kid is doing.
What irks me are scout leaders trying to teach skills they themselves do not possess yet claim they do and end up teaching so many others bad skills. And those who do not monitor their charges.
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jinx
Sep 18, 2005, 8:54 PM
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lilclimber18, the scout are not what they once where... It might be time the scouts (boys and girls) joined together... LOL :oops: they might get better supervision that away...
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lilclimber18
Sep 18, 2005, 8:58 PM
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haha maybe.
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docontherock
Sep 18, 2005, 9:13 PM
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In reply to: The question should be, why and who let the boyscout climb that high without any protection? And, if he wasn't being supervised, why wasn't he? On top of that, whoever let this scout climb without any safety is giving the climbing community a bad reputation and alienating the non climbing community in a negative way. Don't get me wrong, I do feel bad for this kid, but I hope whoever was in charge of the scouts gets some kind of charges filed against him or her.
First of all, this is an unfortunate accident and I hope the kid is OK. We have all done foolish things in our lives and he was unfortunate to have his poor choice reach up and grab him. That being said, the attitude that it is someone elses responsibility (i.e. scout leaders in this case) when accidents happen is a problem. At some point in life we all have to begin to take responsibility for our own safety. Every time something like this happens fingers get pointed at someone other than the injured person. Sometimes this is appropriate but other times it is an attempt at absolution for the person really responsible..... the person who made poor decisions.
This idea that "someone should pay"/"get charges filed against him" has brought us to a point in this country where the government (read...park service) is slowly but surely restricting our access "for our own safety". IMHO this often times denies us the freedom to go out and experience the wild as we see fit....24/7/365, rain, shine, snow, etc....
My prayers go out for this young climbers recovery and the comfort of his family....
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lilclimber18
Sep 18, 2005, 9:16 PM
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i see what your saying, and its 100% correct.
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coffeesaves
Sep 18, 2005, 9:16 PM
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yes, lets all stop and pray, george W. would be soooo proud of us all. do us all a favor and keep your ignorance to yourself, thanx!
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brianmccully
Sep 18, 2005, 9:24 PM
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Dima,
I would not mind taking you up some routes I have been on in the Sieera's or Appalachians and see if you are still laughing 60 feet plus from your last placements in a sea of eyebrows, dikes, or a blank face? You obviously speak from a position of one who has not climbed. You also seem unlearned to know nothing of cognitive development but dont worry we were all once young and dumb and thought we were bullet proof.
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, to discover that I had not lived. I did not wish to live what was not life, living is so dear; nor did I wish to practice resignation, unless it was quite necessary. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life, to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life, to cut a broad swath and shave close, to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms, and, if it proved to be mean, why then to get the whole and genuine meanness of it, and publish its meanness to the world; or if it were sublime, to know it by experience, and to be able to give a true account of it in my next excursion" Hnery DAVID tHOREAU
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seraphless
Sep 18, 2005, 9:25 PM
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I love how quickly these threads turn from sentiment to argument. It is pathetic.
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dima
Sep 18, 2005, 9:25 PM
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FUCK BUSH!
oh, there we go.. i just opened a can of worms..
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jinx
Sep 18, 2005, 9:32 PM
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never mind dimwit I'll be nice... But your family must be proud of that gold metal... :evil: :evil:
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theflyingsquirrel
Sep 18, 2005, 9:46 PM
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hmmm what i want to know is how that kid made it 60 feet without falling sooner. he must of been a good climber. oh well im sure the little squirt will pull through.
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dima
Sep 18, 2005, 9:48 PM
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jinx, calm down, man. did I say anything against you? no. I apologise if my replies were offencive towards you, or anybody else, but I'm just saying my point of view.
or do I need to be like everybody else, and say "i feel sorry for the kid, sending him my prayers", or whatever you say. Well, i have different opinion, and I will defend it, and will explain why I think that guy is not the brightest pea in the pod. I didn't call you name, I didn't say you a retard, or dumb, or "don't have climbing experience", whatever another bubblehead wrote to me.
I'm trying to have mature discussion, not 10 year old name calling game.
peace
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dima
Sep 18, 2005, 9:52 PM
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In reply to: Dima, I would not mind taking you up some routes I have been on in the Sieera's or Appalachians and see if you are still laughing 60 feet plus from your last placements in a sea of eyebrows, dikes, or a blank face? You obviously speak from a position of one who has not climbed. You also seem unlearned to know nothing of cognitive development but dont worry we were all once young and dumb and thought we were bullet proof.
as for you... i did not have the same reaction as everybody else on this site (about feel sorry, etc), and that doesn't show the lack of my intelect ( or being, as you said, young and dumb), or me being bulletproof. Don't judge me by my opinion on how I climb neither ("You obviously speak from a position of one who has not climbed").
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jinx
Sep 18, 2005, 9:57 PM
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No Dima, but a lot of us have lost friends and family from falls, all have been very good climbers and roped in... We don't take death or injuries lightly!!!
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lilclimber18
Sep 18, 2005, 9:59 PM
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thats a good fact there, jinx.
i dont mean to be a smarty pants at the moment, but will someone help me find a topic on this forum where nobody argued or debated? im doing a personal research... i am actually really interested to see how it turns out. dont take it the wrong way, please.. im just kinda wondering.
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theman
Sep 18, 2005, 10:10 PM
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dima dildo ignoramus mealymouth asshole
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dima
Sep 18, 2005, 10:10 PM
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In reply to: No Dima, but a lot of us have lost friends and family from falls, all have been very good climbers and roped in... We don't take dead or injuries lightly!!!
I feel sorry about your relatives, and family members, I do, really.
Am I saying that, "Hey, all climbers are dumb, and fall of the rock!"?? NO, i'm saying in THAT particular case the peson WHO CLIMBED was not realy smart. I feel sorry for his family, and what is going to happen with his instructors, or whatever, HOWEVER, I don't feel sorry for him. He climbed - he fell off. He is already grown up to realize what he is doing, he can do SIMPLE SAFETY decisions for himself. Thats why I don't feel sorry for him.
If he was mentaly challenged, then yes, I would feel sorry, but it doesn't say that, so, asuming that most of kid population is normal, the news decided not to say that the kid was "mentaly capable of preforming physical activities on his own". Its common sence.
He was normal typical 11 year old boy, who was dumb enough to climb a wall not protected, and fell off! What do I need to feel sorry for????????
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dima
Sep 18, 2005, 10:11 PM
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theman, lick my nuts, and go to hell
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nicklikesfire
Sep 18, 2005, 10:11 PM
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Let me start by saying that I am deeply sorry for the poor kid that took the fall, his parents, friends, and the people that were in charge of him when he fell. I think it sucks that an accident like this happened.
But, when I was a kid I did stuff like that and worse. (and before you ask, yes, myself and my friends suffered drasticly from it at one point or another.) It made me who I am today.
Good luck to the boy, and his family.
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viacontinuum
Sep 18, 2005, 10:36 PM
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while i would agree with everyone else, that this is really unfortunate and i feel sorry that the kid got hurt, i think the point that dima's making is a good one. if the kid's parents tell him that the scout leader was completely at fault, then how will he learn responsibility for his own actions, and not constantly blame others everytime something goes wrong?
and at least dima's responded to every one of your posts, apologized a number of times and admitted that it is just his opinion and maybe it's not 100% right. everone else seems to be convinced they're right, and trying to change his mind, telling him to start praying or taking pot shots at the guy. if you don't want these forums to descend into petty arguments and mudslinging (theman), then stop trying to tell other people how to react. you've made your point, he's made his.
and i'm making mine: i used italics in my rant, so i'm more right than all of you. ha.
peace
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macherry
Sep 19, 2005, 1:43 AM
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oh for fuck sakes!!!! it's amazing how many monday morning quarterbacks there are when it comes to climbing accidents. Comments like: "that was stupid", and the like are a waste of a post.
it's been said many times, except for the grace of god, there i go!!! Remember that when you respond to an accident thread.
My prayers and thoughts go out to the family. While i don't know the details, it's a hard accident to accept. 11 year old boys under the supervision and direction of adults..........this kind of accident shouldn't have happened. As a former girl guide leader, i am quite familiar with the responsibility of taking our a group of children. parents trust you with their most precious belongings......their kids. As for 11 year old boys knowing the risk....that's what responsible adults instill in their charges.
please refer to sticky at the top of this forum about moderation and appropriate 'behavior/comments" in the injuries and accident forum
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backclipped
Sep 19, 2005, 3:08 AM
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Dima, Dima, Dima...the funny thing is that at 11, that little boy is more of a climber than you'll ever be.
You need to do three things:
Find some compassion
Learn the meaning of class
keep your mouth shut until you've graduated from that plastic climbing romper room of yours.
You strike me as a mortal incarnate of Loki. If I catch you truddling at my crag I'm gonna whip your ass.
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